Another LA question- R&S or CLE??

[3browneyedboys4me]

I had a thread going about CLE which has led me to explore R&S as well. It seems many on here use both. I see that some prefer the math in CLE and the LA in R&S. I'm more interested in the LA for both programs. Can someone tell me how they compare? I was all set on CLE and then, i started looking over R&S and it looks really tempting! I've passed over R&S many, many times in book stores. The books just never appealed to me visually. They just seemed like they would be extrememly boringggg! So, shamefully, I never picked them up to open them! :glare: Now, I am regretting that.....hmmm..."don't judge a book by its cover!" lol!

 

Both programs look very solid. I feel that either would 'do the job'. However, it looks like R&S covers more. I'm new to both programs so I could be wrong. Could someone tell me what you think of both of these programs? What would be the benefit of one over another? This would be for a 5th, 3rd and 1st grader.

 

I'm trying my best to do a comparison on my own, but flipping from one website to another has my head spinning. I'm having a hard time remembering which programs had certain elements! For instance, I've been reading about CLE but I can't remember if it has diagramming! I was impressed that R&S does!

 

Anyway, i'm hopeful that someone out there has used both and can help me determine the similarities and differences so I can make an informed decision!

 

Thanks!

Bethany

[JenAL]

CLE does have diagramming. We are using CLE this year & while I like it, I do plan to make changes for my oldest next year. I think the grammar portion of CLE is great. There is a new concept introduced & then there is continuous review of previously taught concepts. I love that! I also love that it's workbooks & everything is done in the workbook & the child doesn't have to copy things over to notebook paper. What I don't care for is the spelling & writing. The writing isn't bad, but I need more help teaching my kids to write so I am looking into MC. The spelling is weak IMO. My daughter is a great speller & flies right through the spelling.

 

I haven't used R&S so I can't comment on it. Good luck with your quest!

 

ETA:with CLE there are some occassions where the child is asked to write things on another sheet of paper. Some of the writing assignments are done that way as well as writing spelling words.

[3browneyedboys4me]

May I ask what program you are going to after you leave CLE and what exactly you prefer about the new program? I'm just curious. I see that there is a LOT of buzz on here about mct, but I'm not really thinking that is the way to go for us. So, again, just curious with what you are leaning toward for next year!

Thanks,

Bethany

[JenAL]

I'm going to go with separate curriculum for each LA subject. CLE is an all-in-one and while I liked the concept, it's proving to be difficult to challenge my dd in one area (ex. spelling) & not overwhelm her in another area (ex. grammar).

 

So, I *think* I'm going to use the following for her next year:

Growing with Grammar

Meaningful Comp

Mega Words

CLE Reading

 

This allows her to progress in each area at the pace she needs. Like I said, I do like CLE. As a matter of fact, we will continue to use CLE math & reading. We just need a curriculum that isn't all-in-one for LA. HTH! :D

[Tree House Academy]

I "like" both, but I LOVE Rod and Staff for English. My degree is in English and I searched high and low for something that fit what I wanted to teach with regards to English. We tried MANY curricula before trying R&S. I will admit that I picked up R&S and refused it a few times too. However, it is perfect for my kids and it has really been wonderful for us. It is thorough and it introduces things in a way that makes it simple for even the struggling English student to grasp. My 5th grader went from just barely scraping by in English with CLE and other programs to really "getting" it with R&S. I can't say enough good about the program and what it has done for my kids.

 

Don't get me wrong, I use a LOT of CLE too! I love both programs and, as you can see from my siggy, I use both. I like CLE math better than R&S - but while it is a fit for my older son, it is not as good a fit for my younger. I love CLE reading and chose it above R&S. I like CLE Science and SS in the younger grades, but really like R&S History and Science in the older grades...at least for my "textbook-y", pulled out of ps in 3rd grade kiddo. Who knows what my younger son will prefer when he gets there. For now, he does CLE.

 

Anyway, that is straying off the topic. Sorry! LOL

[Dawn E]

Is there any way you could order one lightunit? I've heard before that they will send you one free if you call. That way you can look at it and have a better idea. Personally, I love the LA. My daughter has a great memory, so the spelling isn't an issue. I was worried the handwriting wouldn't be enough, but it is proving to be more than sufficient. Perhaps next year I will add in the SWR spelling rules cards to give her more tools for spelling.

 

We used GWG 1 and 2 prior to starting CLE 3. While I think GWG is a fine program, I felt dd was not getting enough review. Perhaps that gets better in the later years, but for us the review in CLE is worth the program itself.

 

I think that R&S now have workbooks that coincide with the LA. You might look into that. I, like you, have never been drawn into them. I know that they must be wonderful, based on all the reviews, but for me CLE is thorough and much more user-friendly. You might try searching the curriculum board for CLE R&S. I know that there was a thread in which a lot of former R&S users spoke of moving to CLE for ease of use...and most were not disappointed with the change. I'll see if I can find it and link it.

 

Ultimately, you are going to make a good decision either way. Just don't look back.

[diaperjoys]

Here's my current take...We've just begun CLA LA. It's a great fit for my 6.5yo, who would be dreadfully overwhelmed with copying things onto notebook paper. I plan to use CLE LA next year (grade 2), but I view it as just a grammar program. We'll do WWE2 and also R&S spelling. Later (3rd grade) we'll re-evaluate everything, and R&S will certainly be a consideration. For now, the fact that CLE is all self-contained makes it the best pick for 1st & 2nd grades.

[Dawn E]

 

Not sure if this is the thread I'm thinking of...but it does give more info on comparing the two.

[Medieval Mom]

:lurk5:

[Annie Laurie]

They are both straight forward, plain, and traditional.

 

R&S is mastery based and a textbook. CLE spirals and is a workbook. My older son used R&S 6 several years ago and the mastery method and all of the helps in the teacher's guide suited us. My younger son is using CLE and needs the workbook format and the spiraling. He is less overwhelmed by having short light units than he would be with a big R&S book.

 

They both get the job done. Though in the higher levels, R&S has a much better teacher's guide and the writing instruction in R&S is great, while there isn't much in CLE.

 

I will use CLE with WWE or IEW and an additional spelling program.

[CarolynD]

I'm going to have to say Rod and Staff. I just wanted to add to the confusion..LOL. This is my first year homeschool my 4th grader and I'm extremely happy with it. I'm getting a great review as I teach it to her. You can do alot of the grammar aloud together instead of writing it on notebook paper. I admit, when I first read this here on the forum, I was skeptical. I almost felt like that would be too easy and my daughter wouldn't be able to learn it unless she wrote everything down. For us, it has worked out really well to do the grammar outloud. My daughter does so much writing with Math that it's a nice change of pace and I can explain why she gets something wrong, see why she chooses the answer she does, and explain it as we go along. We do diagraming on the white board. She doesn't really consider that "writing" so it works in my favor. Of course she does their true writing assignments on paper or on the computer and she does the test from the test booklet on her own. I remind her this is to be done alone so I know I have proof and know that she really understood it and we both feel confident moving on. There is another workbook that we purchased that I occasionally have her do if I feel she needs more practice.

 

Hope that helps-

Carolyn

[3browneyedboys4me]

in R&S they have to copy out of a Textbook? There is no workbook to do? I've been looking at it and still can't tell exactly how it works. I see that they sell a separate book w/worksheets, but it sounds like it is more for extra work.

 

If you have to copy all of the sentences and grammar parts down on paper and THEN do the work (diagramming or whatever), my son couldn't handle it. There is NO way. He hates writing and makes far too many mistakes that it would totally frustrate him. He struggles w/ dyslexia and the writing would just be a nightmare for him.

 

So, just to clarify- do they copy the work from a TB??

 

Bethany

[BearWallowSchool]

Yes, it is a textbook and you copy on notebook paper. (The worksheets are for meant for a extra practice when needed.) However, it is not as much writing as it first sounds. Most people do quite a bit of it orally and just do the worksheet instead of the book work when there is a worksheet for the lesson. Plus, when writing is required it is not always "Copy the sentence." it is "Write the verb in the sentence."

[Medieval Mom]

Consider the amount of writing in the CLE workbook, too. While many choose to do R&S orally (or assign fewer problems, do part of the work orally, etc.), most (I presume) have the student complete much of the CLE LA independently. To make myself clear-- Just because the work is in a workbook, doesn't mean that CLE's LA involves LESS writing than R&S. Indeed, it may have *more*. I'm not trying to sway you either way; I just wanted to point that out.

 

Actually, I am leaning towards R&S in part because I can control how much writing my ds will do. As his ability grows, I can assign more accordingly.

 

(I apologize if this isn't clear. I need to toddle off to bed...:closedeyes: )

[3browneyedboys4me]

This is such a hard decision. We have a very good homeschool store here and I'm thinking of just going and looking over the R&S books. I might get a much better feel for them if I do that. :)

 

Thanks for the insight!

Bethany

[Guest aquiverfull]

We use CLE LA 5. There isn't a lot of writing really. There is work like underlining verbs twice, circling the subject, etc. She might have to write conj., adj, prep, in front of some sentences to identify the underlined word in the sentence. There are occasions where she may have to write a sentence on her own. She has to write out the diagramming. There is also spelling words that are meant to be written in another notebook on some lessons and there is also handwriting exercises, like list 8 cold things in your notebook, etc. Also there are sentences where you have to write in the correct word out of your list of spelling words. So I don't think the writing is too much. I think it would be less than R&S, but keep in mind that I have never used R&S that is just going by what I have read on here. Hope that helps.

[mom31257]

Here's my current take...We've just begun CLA LA. It's a great fit for my 6.5yo, who would be dreadfully overwhelmed with copying things onto notebook paper. I plan to use CLE LA next year (grade 2), but I view it as just a grammar program. We'll do WWE2 and also R&S spelling. Later (3rd grade) we'll re-evaluate everything, and R&S will certainly be a consideration. For now, the fact that CLE is all self-contained makes it the best pick for 1st & 2nd grades.

 

:iagree: about the copying things. I bought the Rod and Staff 2nd grade set at a used sale to save for next year. I was so surprised that there was not a workbook to purchase so a 2nd grader would not have to copy so much down. We switched to CLE LA 1 (and Math 2) right after Christmas. I think it is great. I love the approach to spelling as rules instead of lists, even phonics based ones. Yesterday he spelled a word he had never seen or heard. He was really proud of himself. It is covering punctuation, correct verb usages, and contractions, and we are only in the third LU out of 10.

[3browneyedboys4me]

for my son. I really like the way it's laid out and I think he will respond very well to the wb and the light units.

 

Now, for those of you that use this program, I'm stumped on where to start. I realize he needs to take a placement test, but he has never done diagramming. He's been exposed to Easy Grammar, and we did Shurley English last year. So, knowing that he has no previous experience w/this program, is there just a good solid starting point? (level 200, 300, etc) Is there a grade level that you would recommend to begin at that introduces concepts that MUST be covered to be successful with CLE OR will all concepts be repeated *enough* thru all grade levels to be understood? I guess I'm just questioning how accurate the placement test would be with a child that really doesn't have a solid grammar background. I don't want to start him off on a level that is really too young that he will be bored.

 

It's really hard to jump from one program to another and know exactly where you would 'fit' in that program.

 

I hope this makes sense! Thanks for your help!!

Bethany

[mom31257]

I can't speak to the whole program, but there is a whole book of just diagramming practice. I have it for my 7th grader because her program had none in it this year. It actually begins with 2nd grade, so I would think that is where CLE introduces it. Those sentences are diagramming subject, verb, and advectives. Some of the sentences are: The tall man stretched. Big jays shrieked. A strong wind blew. The third grade section adds compound subjects and helping verbs.

 

I would do the placement test for sure, but if diagramming is the only thing he has not done, you could cover that easily. CLE has a book that is a small handbook on diagramming as well.

[3browneyedboys4me]

I will definitely give him the placement test. I will look into the supplemental diagramming book as well. I appreciate this info!

 

Thank you!

Bethany

[JenAL]

What I did when switching to CLE was give the placement test. My dd8 placed in the right grade level, but showed some gaps in a few things that our previous curriculum hadn't introduced yet. So, I took a few weeks to introduce those concepts to her before beginning the new CLE. If she had placed a level below her actual grade level, I would have evaluated if it was close enough to do the same (go over concepts she hadn't been introduced to yet) or if it would have been beneficial for her to actually start a level down. Luckily, I made the switch early (3rd grade). So the gaps were easy to fill in.

 

I suggest you do the diagnostic test & review what the gaps are. If it's just diagramming, you can introduce that & work on that while you are waiting for your CLE order to arrive. I love how the diagnostics tests are done. It's very easy to know what concepts the child does not know.

 

Good luck!

[skaterbabs]

We looked at both and chose to go with CLE for math & LA. We're using 4 levels right now - 100/200 (Dot, she's moving into 200 this month), 500 (Wacko) and 600 (Yacko.)

 

The ONLY thing CLE does poorly IMO is creative writing, but we're using Lightening Literature 6 for the boys, and it has some there.

 

Definately use the placement tests - CLE runs about a year ahead of public school. They also now have a review lightunit on diagramming available.

Edited February 4, 2010 by skaterbabs

[lovinmykids]

You know, I like them both for different reasons, so I probely won't be a big help.

I can only help you with 3rd at this point.

CLE starts diagramming at the end of level 200. Super easy to digest it. Exspecially when I don't even remember doing it.

I like CLE because it is spiral, so they are constently reviewing stuff so they don't forget.

I do think that there spelling words are weak along with their cursive writing, so we have to supplement those.

I like R&S becuase it is pretty meaty and it seems to make it really easy for a parent to teach something. It's also directed to a child in their text book.

In CLE the child writes in their books, in R&S, they write on a serate paper (which will help in their handwriting) but, alot of time, a child can write in their text book or circle things since we do it orally.

With R&S, you can customize your subjects to match your childs ability.

So if they are a better speller, you get the right level.

I believe writing is built into R&S but not for CLE, so you need a seperate writing curric.

Like I say, I like them both and I use CLE as my main and R&S as my helper for MORE!

It works great.

I am trying to decide it I just want to use R&S next year or stay with CLE, a big choice.

I hope this helps you a little in your decision.

R&S is not boring, so don't let that cover fool you.

[sandalwood]

I have used both R & S and CLE for LA. I like them both. We are currently using CLE and one thing I dearly, dearly miss is looking up things in the index in the R & S book in the back. In the R & S textbooks if you want to know where something is, the index tells you on every page it is mentioned. In CLE for instance, if my son forgets what antecedent is, etc. we have to figure out where it was last mentioned in the workbook and which one. A lot of times I have to look in the teacher's guide to figure out where something was last mentioned and then we find that workbook, if it's not in the current workbook. We bought the laminated grammar chart from CLE but "everything" is not on it, so we do a lot of flipping and looking around. Today we searched for antecedent, so it's fresh on my mind :) Now, that is probably just us.. but thought I'd mention it. I love both programs. I appreciate things about both programs.

Edited February 5, 2010 by sandalwood

[Medieval Mom]

I have used both R & S and CLE for LA. I like them both. We are currently using CLE and one thing I dearly, dearly miss is looking up things in the index in the R & S book in the back. In the R & S textbooks if you want to know where something is, the index tells you on every page it is mentioned. In CLE for instance, if my son forgets what antecedent is, etc. we have to figure out where it was last mentioned in the workbook and which one. A lot of times I have to look in the teacher's guide to figure out where something was last mentioned and then we find that workbook, if it's not in the current workbook. We bought the laminated grammar chart from CLE but "everything" is not on it, so we do a lot of flipping and looking around. Today we searched for antecedent, so it's fresh on my mind :) Now, that is probably just us.. but thought I'd mention it. I love both programs. I appreciate things about both programs.

 

 

That's a useful point! Thank you!

 

Having used both programs, do you think that they are fairly well on par with each other? Could you do R&S one year, CLE the next, without too much problem? (Not that I recommend this-- I'm just wondering how their levels match up.)

[sandalwood]

That's a useful point! Thank you!

 

Having used both programs, do you think that they are fairly well on par with each other? Could you do R&S one year, CLE the next, without too much problem? (Not that I recommend this-- I'm just wondering how their levels match up.)

 

So sorry, I just saw this thread again... Yes, I think they are definately on par with each other. I wouldn't recommend skipping around though from CLE to R & S and vice versa. I think CLE has "more" in it like the spelling. In hindsight the words are not the right level for us so we skip them and I do another spelling program. I think if you went with either program you'd be very pleased. My son is a true textbook fan, so I will probably go back to R & S next year, although I love CLE. I have really liked (and my son has too) the workbook where he doesn't have to copy as much as R &S, but there are parts of R & S I miss. But, they are both fantastic, just taught differently. I think R & S is probably more gentle in the younger years, but I have not used CLE in the younger years, so I can't say.