Should I switch from Singapore to Saxon?

[KarenNC]

I have a 9.5 yo 4th grader. We have done Singapore from Earlybird on, switching from US edition to Standards edition in 3A. There have been points in each level where I have had to stop and supplement with something else to help her get/retain the info----Mammoth Math Clock to get time, a lot of stuff for multiplication tables, now Key to Fractions in 4A. Math has always been the biggest battle in homeschooling (except over the geometry portions) and is not her strong point (she's much more into language arts and art--I'm the mathy one:)). In testing, she is well ahead in most things but much closer to age level in math. Since I picked up Key to Fractions, she has been happily doing math, even doing more than required. She says she loves it and hates Singapore. We aren't really even 2/3 through 4A at this point and we started it in early August. Problem is that I see Key to as a supplement, not a full program (is that correct?).

 

I was talking with a friend today and she mentioned that she had switched to Saxon for one of her girls. She said she had always avoided it because of its reputation for being repetitive and boring, but that her daughter is retaining much more and is much happier. I am now looking at the thought of switching, something I didn't plan to do at all. I know I can always skip extra questions if some parts are more repetitive. There is also the fact that I know I can always find Saxon used and have to buy Singapore new (plus wait on the HIGs for the Standards to be printed) as we use Standards so I hope there would be a cost savings. It would be lovely if math weren't a struggle (I told my husband the other day that sometimes I feel like I'm digging a well with a feather in math).

 

Anyone switched? Suggestions on level to go into?

[DarlaS]

Remember, Singapore is advanced, and the standards edition is including even more topics to meet CA standards. If she's 9.5 then she's the same age as my dd (July 2000--or pretty close to it?) who is in 3B. She will do 4A & 4B in grade 5.

 

I found this info about placement to be helpful to read:

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/mathsingapore.html

 

That said, Saxon is an excellent program but before switching (since it sounds like she just needs a break from it) maybe give it some time. She is not behind. She would probably place into Saxon 65.

[AngieW in Texas]

None of my kids would do well with Saxon, but I have a friend who made the switch from Singapore to Saxon and it was great for her dd. Saxon was exactly what her dd needed.

 

Singapore was great for my two older girls. They started with level 3A after Miquon and then worked through to 6B.

 

Singapore was only so-so for my youngest. She did Singapore from 1A-3A (Miquon didn't work for her). Then we left Singapore for one year and tried several other programs because she'd hit a wall in 3A. After that year, my dd asked to return to Singapore. We started back in Singapore with 4A and that worked fine through 5A, although I did have to add in Daily Math Practice for review. It started falling apart again in 5B. My dd made it through most of the book, but then we had to stop.

 

Now my dd is using Key to Fractions, Decimals, Percents, and Algebra along with Lial's Basic College Mathematics.

[StephanieZ]

To each, her own. . .

 

But I'd vote for adding Miquon. . . It has worked very well for us in tandem w/Singapore. . .

[LunaLee]

I've posted many times about this same switch because thats what I did this year. My ds did Singapore US 2a/b, 3a and Standards edition 3b and part of 4a. So in 3rd grade he was doing 2. Even though Singapore is advanced, I felt he was really behind. He was leaving 4th grade and couldn't do the things I felt he should be doing. Plus, I was having to supplement Singapore alot with drill sheets and daily review of previously learned material. So despite the fact that my dd did terrible with Saxon, I switched ds to Saxon 6/5 at the beginning of the year and he's made tremendous progress. We should be finished sometime in March at which point we will go back and finish Singapore 4 over the summer and then go back Saxon 7/6 in the fall. We'll probably continue this pattern until Algebra. I love Singapore- the mental math he learned early on is amazing, and they have a heavy focus on geometry which I like, and he really likes doing it, but I think it's moved to more of a supplemental resource for us instead of the main program.

[Annabel Lee]

I've posted many times about this same switch because thats what I did this year. My ds did Singapore US 2a/b, 3a and Standards edition 3b and part of 4a. So in 3rd grade he was doing 2. Even though Singapore is advanced, I felt he was really behind. He was leaving 4th grade and couldn't do the things I felt he should be doing. Plus, I was having to supplement Singapore alot with drill sheets and daily review of previously learned material. So despite the fact that my dd did terrible with Saxon, I switched ds to Saxon 6/5 at the beginning of the year and he's made tremendous progress. We should be finished sometime in March at which point we will go back and finish Singapore 4 over the summer and then go back Saxon 7/6 in the fall. We'll probably continue this pattern until Algebra. I love Singapore- the mental math he learned early on is amazing, and they have a heavy focus on geometry which I like, and he really likes doing it, but I think it's moved to more of a supplemental resource for us instead of the main program.

 

This is the pattern we are following, starting Singapore for the 1st time this summer, and using a mix of traditional math programs (Abeka/Horizons) during the "school year". I've already gotten out some of the Singapore books just to illustrate concepts for my boys (I just showed them things in the textbooks & workbooks - no official work in SM yet) & it's amazing how fast they get a concept when they can see it and play with it multiple ways.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Annabel Lee
tried to clarify my scattered thoughts

[Sara R]

Also look at Rod and Staff Math. Rod and Staff is mastery, so it only teaches one new concept at a time. There is also plenty of review so they don't forget what they have already learned. Saxon's new topics bounce around a lot. For example, in Rod and Staff they will spend 2 weeks learning how to add fractions, progressing from easy problems to harder problems. Each day they also get a review of the earlier material. In Saxon, they will learn long multiplication one day, the metric system the next day, decimals the next day, geometry the next, and so on. Each day they review everything they have ever learned (almost).

 

My daughter is doing okay in Saxon at school now, but only because she is placed probably a year behind where I would have placed her. This is mostly review for her. She had really been struggling in math before, so I didn't argue with the school's placement. She's really built up her confidence.

 

Also, if you like Singapore, don't give up using it if you switch to a more fact based curriculum. Just use it after the student has learned the concept in the other curriculum. So, for example, after the student can add fractions of different denominators with confidence, then go back and do Singapore 4A. Then they zoom through the book and have fun with it, and they have the mental power to devote to figuring out the bar diagrams.

[ondreeuh]

Also, if you like Singapore, don't give up using it if you switch to a more fact based curriculum. Just use it after the student has learned the concept in the other curriculum. So, for example, after the student can add fractions of different denominators with confidence, then go back and do Singapore 4A. Then they zoom through the book and have fun with it, and they have the mental power to devote to figuring out the bar diagrams.

 

:iagree:

 

We stopped using Singapore as our primary/only math program because there was nowhere near enough review and my ds was forgetting things as fast as he learned them. We have been much happier with spiral programs (Horizons and CLE) but I do supplement with Singapore to review. I totally agree that it's fun to zoom through and I love being able to just focus in on the bar graph stuff.

[pmurphy]

We were in the same boat as you a few months ago. As a math teacher in public schools I was trained to dislike Saxon, and I did think it was repetitive and boring in a classroom. I did Singapore up through 3A with my daughter, and she liked it okay, but we supplemented with Miqon and Math Mammoth when I was worried she wasn't getting something (which was all the time!). I heard someone say that if your child isn't thriving with a curiculum then switch. Thriving wasn't the word I would use to describe her math. I borrowed a Saxon 5/4 and almost started it, but then thought I'd give Rightstart a try. She does not like Rightstart, although I make her play the games because I think they are great for reinforcing things. And now for the end of the story, I ended up getting Saxon 6/5 this school year and she loves it. SHe loves writing out all the answers in her notebook. She loves being somewhat independent of me in reading the lesson and trying it on her own first. She loves grading all the problems when she's done. All the stuff I thought she'd hate is the part she likes. We're not thriving yet, but this may be close! She's 11 by the way....

Tricia

[KarenNC]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. We looked at Miquon early on, but it was one I couldn't wrap *my* head around how it would work. I also definitely want a secular curriculum, so Rod and Staff is probably not a good fit (I'm willing to make compromises if I *have* to on this, but for math I should certainly be able to find something secular, I hope:)).

 

Thrive is definitely not the word I would use about my daughter and Singapore. Survive might be closer for both of us!

 

At the moment, I'm going to have her do the online placement test for Saxon and then take her over to the homeschool consignment store and look at a copy of the book in which she places. Since we are working through Key to Fractions book 2 right now and I have book 3, we have a bit of a breather. Also I still have the rest of 4a in Singapore before I *have* to make a decision.