Hebrew??

[Petie]

DS 2 wants to learn to speak fluently in Hebrew, and we are actually excited about learning. But, this is going to be our first year homeschooling the kids (minus kindy for ds 2) and I know Latin is important in a classical curriculum. So the question is, do we focus on Hebrew, or go ahead and learn latin? DS wants to study to become a Rabbi and even has the high school he wants to attend picked out. But hebrew is VERY imortant for that. We also plan on going to Israel in a few years for a trip, so it would be helpful for that. On the other hand much of English is based on Latin. I am torn, so help me out. What would you do.

[TracyR]

I agree. I would study Hebrew and get a roots based Latin study like English from the Roots up.

[AngelBee]

:lurk5:

[HollyDay]

Rosetta Stone has a modern Hebrew study. I've used Zola Levitt's hebrew program but it is pretty tedious.

[Ruth in NC]

I have 2 teens using Hebrew Online. It's pricy but there is a substantial cost break for a 2nd student. There are classes for younger kids, as well.

 

http://www.hebrewonline.com/default.asp

 

Ruth in NC

[Ester Maria]

If you don't want to completely give up on Latin (and in your personal case I suggest you not to because of the things I am about to elaborate on), you have two options.

 

The first one would be to focus exclusively on Hebrew, while substituting the actual in-depth study of Latin with roots study, and if time permits and there's a will, accompanied by some kind of basic study which would include covering some things related to cultural literacy (such as Latin sayings and expressions).

The second one would be - what a surprise :) - to study both languages simultaneously, they are enough apart so the chances of one getting into another's way are minimal; and while you are studying them both, you can still decide to place greater importance on Hebrew and dedicate more time to that.

 

In all honesty, if your son wants to be a rabbi, even though the vast majority of people are going to tell you to leave alone Latin and Greek and the overall cultures they reflect, and instead focus on Hebrew (in all of its forms) and Aramaic, I am going to suggest you, if not openly beg you :), to do exactly the opposite. We NEED rabbis who are versed in classical culture, who don't speak with contempt about "chochmah yevanit" and all it implies today ("Greek wisdom leads to an alienation from Jewish values" yadda yadda yadda) and who are actually willing to broaden their horizons to that aspect of the world as well to learn something from it.

I'm raising two (secular) Jewish daughters in the spirit of the world based on classical antiquity and sometimes it is INCREDIBLY hard to "merge" those two aspects of our culture they are being brought up with into a healthy unit, sometimes I can literally see the struggling they have with the opposing worldviews and philosophies, but I always think it's for the best to know more, not to know less, and even if you have chosen your stance on it, not to "ghettoize" yourself in it. And we're secular, I can imagine how many more tensions can arise amongst the religious who are trying to do that, but I still think it's worth it.

 

The Jewish education, the proper Jewish education your son is willing to get, all too readily "ghettoizes" itself within itself (even the non-extreme positions); and yes, from certain point of view that's necessary, however, exactly because of that, if I were you, I would open another window for my child and properly teach them the language of an opposing aspect of our culture, because trust me, he will NOT get it in any remotely Orthodox institution, and it might enrich him for life.

[Petie]

I like the idea of Hebrew in depth and just a roots study in Latin. I think that's the way we'll go with that.

 

Oh and thank you ladies for the Hebrew recommendations. We were planning on using Rosetta Stone, but I'll look into those options too.

[Petie]

Ester, I have to say, I was typing my reply as you were posting yours and yours has definately given me food for thought. Let me discuss it with dh and ds. I definately don't want to overload the kids but I definately see your point and actually agree greatly with it. I was looking more at the time issue than anything, but if we can fit it in, I am definately going to look at doing that. Maybe this year we'll start with roots based, and see if time allows us to expand to a full on study of Latin.

[Revwife]

We use materials from Berhmann House for hebrew. My boys LOVE it.

[dragons in the flower bed]

We're doing both with our six-year-old. The two programs are in my signature line below. Plans always change between first grade and high school, but right now I see no reason why we won't continue doing both until graduation.

[laughing lioness]

I just bought Rosetta Stone Hebrew for my dh (3 grad degrees) who is really motivated to learn Hebrew and already knows a couple. He LOVES what he's seen so far of the RS program and is making plans (and starting a savings account) for another RS language!

[Shifra]

I assume that your son is a teenager, if he is expressing a desire to be a rabbi. First of all, you may want him to be mentored by the rabbi of your congregation. Have him go to Bible classes in the synagogue (even if the classes are attended mostly by retirees or older women). If your rabbi is really impressed by your son, he/she may be willing to teach him privately Bible.

 

The first step, though, for either Modern or Biblical Hebrew is to make sure that your son can read Hebrew! I cannot give suggestions since I am a day school graduate and started reading Hebrew in first grade. But if he cannot read Hebrew or reads it poorly, that is the very best place to start!

 

For modern Hebrew, your synagogue (or others in your community) may offer classes too. Also check the Jewish community center in your area if there is one. If you live in a city with a large Jewish population, you should have no problems finding classes!

 

Check out from the National Middle East Languages Resource Center: www.nmelrc.org/documents/Handbooks/HebrewHandbook.pdf. This file is meant for college students, but it list many textbooks and other resources for the beginning Hebrew student (mostly Modern Hebrew, but there is a little bit on learning Biblical Hebrew too). Your son sounds so mature, he probably can handle using some of these resources as a self-study.

 

I really liked Colloquial Hebrew: The Complete Course for Beginners by Tamar Wang, which is a great modern Hebrew resource. It is meant as a self-study book with CD/cassette tape combination for adults.

 

The other way that I have improved my modern Hebrew proficiency is by reading Hebrew children's books and watching Hebrew videos. These explore Hebrew at a very basic level with real colloquial Hebrew involved. Amazon.com has many Hebrew children's books like Dora the Explorer, The Very Hungry Caterpillar, and many others. On video, Barney is available on amazon.com in Hebrew.

 

It takes many years and a lot of effort to become fluent in Hebrew or even very proficient. So I really strongly suggest that you son work on it, starting as soon as possible. I went through 12 years of Hebrew Day School education, studyed in Israel for a school year after graduating high school, have taken Hebrew classes and studyed on my own ever since, and while my Hebrew is very good for a person who has never lived in Israel, it is not fluent. I can read most of the the Bible in Hebrew without translation and understand it most of the the time, but not all the time.

 

You should be very proud of your son. He sounds so mature. I wish you both good luck on your journey!

[Ester Maria]

It takes many years and a lot of effort to become fluent in Hebrew or even very proficient.

I disagree. Or, better, I agree, but in sense that your statement is true for ANY language, and not only for Hebrew in particular. As there is nothing "magic" about Latin, there is also nothing "magic" about Hebrew - a language as any other, that can certainly be learned to any degree you want, provided the necessary effort.

 

The problematic aspect of Hebrew is reading without vowels (since it implies you cannot really read till you can speak it, as you have to KNOW what you are reading before being able to do it) and lexical differences as opposed to the IE languages (i.e. it takes a lot longer to master vocabulary since it also involves learning to "manipulate" roots in order to create any type of the word you need from them).

 

Hebrew morphology and syntax, on the other hand, is not that hard and I would even venture to claim that from that aspect Hebrew is EASIER than Latin and Greek. It takes certain "click", since the Hebrew grammar is "unusual" for speakers of IE languages, but once you get accustomed to the different way of putting things together, it's really not as hard.

I went through 12 years of Hebrew Day School education, studyed in Israel for a school year after graduating high school, have taken Hebrew classes and studyed on my own ever since, and while my Hebrew is very good for a person who has never lived in Israel, it is not fluent. I can read most of the the Bible in Hebrew without translation and understand it most of the the time, but not all the time.

Shifra, it may be a common experience, but keep in mind that in Hebrew Day Schools they usually emphasize a certain aspect of the Hebrew language, i.e. the religion-related one; they focus on lashon kodesh, even if they teach you some conversational Modern Israeli Hebrew.

You have to keep in mind that one can perfectly be well-versed in lashon kodesh WITHOUT actually speaking Modern Israeli Hebrew, which has been the experience of thousands of students educated in American Jewish schools (also, the more orthodox the school, the more they are going to emphasize the religious, and NOT the everyday and "secular" language; some of them go as far to NEVER teach conversational modern Hebrew, but only lashon kodesh).

 

If you lived in Israel for a year and did not become fluent after 12 years of studying it, it says more about you and your surrounding in Israel (I suppose you studied in an anglophone seminary? And were in contact predominately with other Anglo girls and not so much with native Israelis? Also, with what level Modern Hebrew - lashon kodesh aside - you arrived to Israel in the first place?), than about the difficulty of Hebrew as a language. I could give you counter examples of completely secular people who never even attended Hebrew schools as kids and could barely read the alephbet upon their arrival in Israel, but are fluent nowadays because they immersed themselves in it, spoke it on daily basis with native speakers, were integrated in the society, attended Hebrew-speaking schools or worked in Hebrew-speaking atmosphere rather than international, etc. - it's really the same as with ANY language and ANY country you can come to.

 

Petie's son, if he wants to become a rabbi, will have to master various forms of lashon kodesh as well as Aramaic, so in any case conversational Hebrew is NOT a must for him and will probably not be his focus of study, though even if he never formally learns it, as a "side-effect" of reading so much lashon kodesh and being around lots of different Jews (some of which will inevitably be Israelis or Hebrew speakers too) he is likely to acquire it at least to an intermediate level.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Ester Maria