Do you need TE with Rod & Staff?

[thowell]

Considering for next year for 2nd and 5th grade. Would I need the TE? Do the student workbooks help teach the child? I am looking for a somewhat self teaching worktext that I can just beef up when needed.

[Daisy]

English??

 

For 2nd grade, absolutely not.

 

For 5th grade, you may want it for the answers. I don't use it for actual instruction although is does provide that and good oral review for those who need it. I just like to be able to double check a quirky diagramming sentence.

[thowell]

Is English the only good part? I am looking for a whole curriculum from a Baptist standpoint which will be more independent work.

[Guest aquiverfull]

I think if you're looking for an independent workbook approach, you should consider Christian Light Education. I've been told that it's very similar to Rod and Staff, but more of a workbook independent approach.

[Cinder]

I'm only familiar with R&S English (grades 3-6), spelling (4-6), and math (grades 3-6, 8). I did purchase all the English TE's because we did English orally for grades 3-5 and it was easier if ds and I each had our own book to work from. For English 6, he does better if he goes through each exercise orally then writes it down. For math (and spelling) I didn't use TE's until 6 and then mainly to make correcting their work go quicker, though with math 8 they sometimes show you how to set up a problem for solving. This has been helpful on those days my brain is fuzzy.

 

 

Cinder

[Daisy]

Ahhh, well, I answered about the English because it is the most commonly used portion of R&S curriculum.

 

I've used the following...

 

English 2-5th (TM's not necessary until Mom needs the answers)

 

Math 1-4th (No instruction in the books until grade 4)

 

Science 2-4th (TM are not necessary but do add to the value of the program)

 

History 2-4th (TM's not necessary.)

 

Spelling 2-4th (TM's have great sentences for the tests & provide answers)

 

Reading 1-4th (TM's are absolutely necessary, IMO. They contain quizzes, oral discussion questions, and answers to the workbooks.)

 

R&S is not meant to be independent. The TM's do provide instruction. This is especially true of the 1st and 2nd grade materials. An older child who works well independently would probably be able to to grade 3-5 on their own (I can't speak for higher than that since we haven't used any higher). If you want an independent curriculum with the same doctrine at R&S, then Christian Light Publication is probably the route you want to go.

[Ellie]

Is English the only good part? I am looking for a whole curriculum from a Baptist standpoint which will be more independent work.

No, English isn't the only good part, but some of us just weren't sure if you were asking about everything from the publisher or what. :-)

 

In general, the TMs are necessary for the first three grade levels of math, and the first year of the Bible Nurture and Reader series. They are very helpful for all English and social studies/history, and for the newer God's World science series. They're useful for Spelling by Sound and Structure.

 

The authors of R&S's textbooks specifically wrote the materials to be used independently--not exclusive of teacher involvement or oversight, but everything the children need to know is in their own texts/workbooks (other than the ones I mentioned). Rod and Staff is Mennonite; I can't think of anything I've read in the materials which would not be compatable with your Baptist doctrine.

[thowell]

Just to clarify I guess totally independent is not what I am wanting. I love teaching my children b ut right now I have to hold their hands in eeryhting. I would like to be able to teach a lesson to them and then walk away and let them do the work independently. Does that make sense? I am strapped to a table for 4-5 hours a day and everything else around me is not getting done. Where is the middle ground?

[Guest aquiverfull]

Oh I see. I'd like to do that too. :) I'm not really having to juggle all my children at the moment. My oldest is in public school due to a custody situation and my littles are just too young to do anything formal with yet. However, I see what you mean. We are doing CLE LA and had done the CLE Math. Those workbooks are supposed to be self-teaching, therefore more independent. I'm finding that my dd doesn't do so well with that though. I asked just the other day if R&S LA had more teacher involvement and I was told that it did. I was told that the teacher's manual was really helpful. The CLE LA teacher's manuals are pretty worthless, in my opinion. There is not much in them at all as far as material to "teach" the child.

[daybreaking]

Just to clarify I guess totally independent is not what I am wanting. I love teaching my children b ut right now I have to hold their hands in eeryhting. I would like to be able to teach a lesson to them and then walk away and let them do the work independently. Does that make sense? I am strapped to a table for 4-5 hours a day and everything else around me is not getting done. Where is the middle ground?

 

One thing I love about R&S is that I get to work with DS 1:1, while we go through the activities in the TM and then I can set him off on his own and he can independently complete the math worksheets and the phonics or reading workbooks. Occasionally, he'll need a little clarification with the phonics or reading, but for the most part, he can work with very little hand holding.

 

I have used R&S 1st grade math and am currently using 2nd grade math, while finishing up the 1st grade Bible Nurture and Reader series (which covers phonics and reading) and handwriting. Come February, I will also be using 2nd grade spelling, health, science, social studies & English. From what I've already used and from thoroughly previewing what we will be using, I have found the TM's to be essential. (I need to politely disagree with a previous poster who said there was no instruction in the math TM. I found the complete opposite to be true and couldn't imagine doing the program without the TM.)

 

If you call R&S, they will send you sample curriculum booklets for each grade for free. That's what helped solidify my decision to switch to them.

[pbjmeyer]

I wouldn't try it without the TM. And, you can sell it better as a set.

 

In R&S, I work thru the lesson with my son, using the TM review questions (these are not in the student book) and read the lesson with him. We work thru the oral exercises, and then I assign him the written exercises to do on his own. The whole lesson together isn't more than about 10 -15 minutes. Then he does his work on his own. It is a very thorough program, and I have learned aspects of grammar I never learned, so i am always glad I have the TM to refer to.

[suzf242]

It probably depends on you and your dc if you need the TMs. My dd is currently working through R&S 2nd grade math, reading, Patterns of Nature and Our Father's World. She does them all independently and enjoys them all. I don't use any TMs and don't have any problem answering her questions or checking her work. BTW, we are also Baptist, and I was first attracted to R&S because the content and style matches our beliefs better than any of the other Christian curricula I could find. I use Ambleside Online/Charlotte Mason approach for everything else we do, and it seems to be a good balance so far.

 

Hope you find what works for you!

 

Take care,

Suzanne

[Ellie]

Do the student workbooks help teach the child?

I didn't answer this part of your question. :-)

 

In subjects which are primarily workbooks (spelling, health, 2nd grade science) the instruction is in the student text. The English workbooks are optional, and I don't believe there's any serious instruction, just the directions for the activities. There are some exceptions (1st grade reading, 1st and 2nd grade arithmetic--3rd grade, too, although that is a textbook), but those are usually lower elementary. Otherwise, the textbooks contain everything the dc need to know in order to learn and do the assignments.

[thowell]

Thanks ladies. I am thinking of doing R & S for math and English, and then going with FIAR. I have had a very hard time finding something that matches our beliefs that is not dry for all subjects. I want to mix it up not all workbooks and not all reading. kwim? So this is where I am now. But I do like the look of R&S.

[thowell]

Can anyone twll me the difference in the two maths for 2nd grade? Working Arithimetic or working with numbers.

[daybreaking]

Working with Numbers is the previous edition, from before the early 1990's, when they revised their math. Working with Arithmetic is the current one.

 

Clarification on TM's - The reason I feel they are necessary is not that the student could not complete the work on their own without the instruction in the TM, but that the TM add so much more to the curriculum. To me, it's like comparing milk. Just using the workbooks/texts would be like giving your child skim milk. Using them in conjunction with the TM would be like giving your child whole milk.:001_smile:

[Ellie]

Working with Numbers is the previous edition, from before the early 1990's, when they revised their math. Working with Arithmetic is the current one.

 

Clarification on TM's - The reason I feel they are necessary is not that the student could not complete the work on their own without the instruction in the TM, but that the TM add so much more to the curriculum. To me, it's like comparing milk. Just using the workbooks/texts would be like giving your child skim milk. Using them in conjunction with the TM would be like giving your child whole milk.:001_smile:

The revisions for first-through-third arithmetic *require* the TM. That's where the instruction is; the workbooks (1st & 2nd) and textbook (3rd) only reinforce what was taught during the oral "classtime." IMHO, the revisions are *much* better than the originals (English as well as math). English...not so much. The authors assumed that most of the schools using R&S materials were multi-grade, one-room schools, with one teacher who barely had time to go over completed homework and assign the next lesson--no class discussion, no projects; that's why (with those few exceptions I've mentioned) the instruction is in the student texts/workbooks. The TMs have *optional* oral classtime, but it is truly optional.

[daybreaking]

The arithmetic 1-3 is under revision again. The grade 1 is due to be finished this coming spring. When I inquired, I was told it was because teachers found the manipulatives to be "clumsy." I'm going to stick with the current one, only because I already own it, but I'm curious to see the new revised ones.

[Ellie]

The arithmetic 1-3 is under revision again. The grade 1 is due to be finished this coming spring. When I inquired, I was told it was because teachers found the manipulatives to be "clumsy." I'm going to stick with the current one, only because I already own it, but I'm curious to see the new revised ones.

"manipulatives"? Do they mean the duckies and the sailboats?? I used those as visuals, not manipulatives.:001_huh: I think the current one is just fine.

[daybreaking]

"manipulatives"? Do they mean the duckies and the sailboats?? I used those as visuals, not manipulatives.:001_huh: I think the current one is just fine.

 

I'm assuming that's what they meant, as well as the sea creatures for 3rd grade multiplication. I've used the duckies, sailboats and blossoms as a combination of visuals/manipulatives, in that some days, I'm the one who moves them and sometimes my son is. I agree, I think the current edition is great and my son loves the activities. Even at age 7, he thinks the lamb, pig & horse are really neat! I will admit, though, that my duckies kept falling off the felt board! :001_huh:

[2_girls_mommy]

I haven't read all of the posts, but agree w/Ellie on the first page.

 

I think the T.Ms are necessary for the maths. I have used grades 1-3 so far. They are necessary for 1st grade phonics and reading too (which is their whole program for 1st w/the math, pretty much..)

 

The teaching instructions are included in the music books. I do not find them necessary for penmanship, 2nd grade English, or the 2nd grade science. Although the 2nd science was so cheap, I bought it. It has the occasional activity idea, but not many. You would do just as well picking up books at the library on the topic, if not better.

 

I didn't see the question about manipulatives for math, except for the last comment. We do use the duckies I made as math manipulatives. DD5 uses them for adding and subtracting. You can also add in any others you want, like counting bears or beans. I also made the sailboats for grade 2, and found them very helpful for visualization of the numbers' relationship to ten.

[Ellie]

I'm assuming that's what they meant, as well as the sea creatures for 3rd grade multiplication. I've used the duckies, sailboats and blossoms as a combination of visuals/manipulatives, in that some days, I'm the one who moves them and sometimes my son is. I agree, I think the current edition is great and my son loves the activities. Even at age 7, he thinks the lamb, pig & horse are really neat! I will admit, though, that my duckies kept falling off the felt board! :001_huh:

Ah. I must admit that the 3rd grade visuals were *very* tricky. I don't think I actually figured them out, lol. But yes, we used them as you did: sometimes I moved things around, sometimes dc did.