Alleged Fort Hood shooter paralyzed from waist down

[asta]

Extremism is a *political* motivation, not a religious motivation, imo.

 

There is no separation between politics and religion in Islam.

 

This is not my opinion or interpretation, it is just how it is (feel free to google).

 

Additionally, we (most of us) are trying to impose our cultural understanding on a different set of cultural mores. eg; separation of church and state on a culture that has no such distinction.

 

 

a

[LizzyBee]

... Ya'll are smoking crack.

 

 

a

 

When, with all this supervision? :lol:

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I really don't mean to be snarky.

 

Different people, different bases, different experiences. No big deal.

[asta]

Here's the question (with no sarcasm):

 

Is the freedom of movement SO much greater for an O-4 than for an E-3 that it makes logical sense to go to *medical school* instead of enlisting if you went into the military to do harm? The answer to *that* question is no, imo.

 

It depends on what your vision is.

 

There is a cultural divide in perceptions of time; Islam sees things in years and decades where non-Islam see things in weeks and months.

 

This has been one of the hardest lessons we have had to learn in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

 

a

[Mrs Mungo]

There is no separation between politics and religion in Islam.

 

This is not my opinion or interpretation, it is just how it is (feel free to google).

 

Additionally, we (most of us) are trying to impose our cultural understanding on a different set of cultural mores. eg; separation of church and state on a culture that has no such distinction.

 

 

a

 

There was a time the same could be said of Catholicism or Protestantism. In our lifetime Catholics and Protestants were still killing each other in the UK after *hundreds of years* of fighting. Wars were fought, acts of terror and torture committed, much blood was shed. The Queen is *still* the head of the Church of England.

[Mrs Mungo]

It depends on what your vision is.

 

There is a cultural divide in perceptions of time; Islam sees things in years and decades where non-Islam see things in weeks and months.

 

This has been one of the hardest lessons we have had to learn in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

 

a

 

Iraq and Afghanistan are completely different in that regard. Iraq is a developed nation. It will swing back toward Westernization. Afghanistan is a feudal system, it doesn't have the natural resources to develop beyond that and it never will.

[asta]

Here is a final question from my hubby for ya'll to ask YOUR husbands:

 

If you had an E-2 in YOUR unit who:

 

1) Had been in direct correspondence with a notorious preacher of violence, Anwar al-Awlaki, whose enthusiasm for the teachings and actions of al-Qaida has long been well-known to researchers and intelligence agencies.

 

2) On his business card, he described himself as "SOA" or "slave," or possibly, "soldier of Allah." Neither would be especially reassuring in this context.

 

3) Had attracted considerable attention by using his [...] classes for the purpose of Islamic proselytizing, for a version of Islam that, to say the least, did not overemphasize it as a "religion of peace."

 

4) Had, in spoken and written communications, demonstrated a fascination with the love of death and the concept of suicide martyrdom (better described as suicide murder) that is the central concept of Bin Ladenism.

 

Would you let him out of your sight? You, not your wife. You.

 

I bet not.

 

 

 

 

(my apologies to Christopher Hitchens for butchering his article)

[Pink Fairy]

No.

 

Just a lot of years, a lot of installations, and a lot of experiences.

 

Could a confident E-2 walk into ________ without anyone questioning him/her on Ft. Hood when they were really supposed to be _______? Of course they could. How about if they were acting rather... strangely? Would they still be left to go about their business?

 

Would it be a heck of a lot easier if that same E-2 were an 0-4? We all know it would. And we all know that even a non-confident 0-4, who happened to be behaving a bit "off" wouldn't be questioned.

 

That is the reality of a rank based system.

 

Gasp.

 

The *reality* is that it could have been done by any determined person with access--even non military.

[Pink Fairy]

Here is a final question from my hubby for ya'll to ask YOUR husbands:

 

If you had an E-2 in YOUR unit who:

 

 

 

Would you let him out of your sight? You, not your wife. You.

 

I bet not.

 

 

 

 

(my apologies to Christopher Hitchens for butchering his article)

 

 

So now you are looking at long term behavior, not restricted access?

[Mrs Mungo]

Here is a final question from my hubby for ya'll to ask YOUR husbands:

 

If you had an E-2 in YOUR unit who. . .

 

What makes you think his most recent commanders were necessarily aware of any of that? The FBI/CIA/NSA knowing it does not equal a commander knowing it, not by a long shot. It appears they had decided #1 was nothing:

Counterterrorism and military officials said Monday night that the communications, first intercepted last December as part of an unrelated investigation, were consistent with a research project the psychiatrist was then conducting at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington on post-traumatic stress disorder.“There was no indication that Major Hasan was planning an imminent attack at all, or that he was directed to do anything,†one senior investigator said.

 

Because intelligence investigators had apparently decided it was nothing, we can assume the commander wouldn't know about it.

 

Having a box of business cards that read "SOA" is meaningless unless he was handing them out at work. We don't know that he ever did that.

 

Did he get put on probation for proselytizing while in medical school? Yes. Do we know what he was emphasizing? No. Do we know if the military actually had any of that in his file? No. Based on what I know about the military, do I think it was in his file? No, not unless he received a letter of reprimand over it.

 

The suicide bombing thing is based on a single internet posting that may or may not have been his. That is hardly conclusive evidence and again, probably not something his commander was aware of.

 

A commander cannot take action if they are unaware of a situation. Therefore, the point is moot.

[PineFarmMom]

What was wrong was that fears of p.c. retaliation kept mental health professionals from further exploring what was going on.

 

I'm definitely on board with that statement!!

 

I do see where you are coming from with the rest of what you said. I guess it's just more difficult with this type of situation because you've had large numbers of individuals doing the same "types" of things to us as a country, and in the middle east for a while with 9/11 and suicide bombings, etc. That's different than random news events of an individual abortion doctor being killed or a psychotic mother. The thing that Hasan did was applauded by some of his fellow jihad-lovers. There's more of a backing there.

[Laurie4b]

I'm definitely on board with that statement!!

 

I do see where you are coming from with the rest of what you said. I guess it's just more difficult with this type of situation because you've had large numbers of individuals doing the same "types" of things to us as a country, and in the middle east for a while with 9/11 and suicide bombings, etc. That's different than random news events of an individual abortion doctor being killed or a psychotic mother. The thing that Hasan did was applauded by some of his fellow jihad-lovers. There's more of a backing there.

 

Yes, I agree that it's possible that he's not psychotic, just fanatic, and if he actually was psychotic, that doesn't change that it plays into the hands of fanatics who congratulate him or may have aided and abetted him.

 

But whatever his personal situation, what is very troubling is that apparently people who noticed potential red flags felt inhibited from speaking out for whatever reason--and it looks very much as though that reason is to avoid getting strung up by forces of p.c. If that changes as a result, it will be at least a shimmer of a silver lining in this awful tragedy.

[phathui5]

He'll be tried by the military and quite possibly receive the death penalty. So he maybe financial supported for a short period of time.

 

It's generally much more expensive to hand down the death penalty than it is to imprison someone for a life term, because of the lengthy appeals process.

[asta]

The *reality* is that it could have been done by any determined person with access--even non military.

 

Absolutely.

 

But that wasn't the subject at hand.

[asta]

What makes you think his most recent commanders were necessarily aware of any of that? The FBI/CIA/NSA knowing it does not equal a commander knowing it, not by a long shot. It appears they had decided #1 was nothing:

 

 

Because intelligence investigators had apparently decided it was nothing, we can assume the commander wouldn't know about it.

 

Having a box of business cards that read "SOA" is meaningless unless he was handing them out at work. We don't know that he ever did that.

 

Did he get put on probation for proselytizing while in medical school? Yes. Do we know what he was emphasizing? No. Do we know if the military actually had any of that in his file? No. Based on what I know about the military, do I think it was in his file? No, not unless he received a letter of reprimand over it.

 

The suicide bombing thing is based on a single internet posting that may or may not have been his. That is hardly conclusive evidence and again, probably not something his commander was aware of.

 

A commander cannot take action if they are unaware of a situation. Therefore, the point is moot.

 

But that wasn't my question.

 

My question was what the military husbands on this board would have done with an E-2 in their command who presented with the information I stated.

 

 

a

Edited November 18, 2009 by asta

[Mrs Mungo]

But that wasn't my question.

 

My question was what the military husbands on this board would have done with an E-2 in their command who presented with the information I stated.

 

 

a

 

I'm never on the board when hubby is home and I keep forgetting to ask him about this situation. I can tell you that my hubby has chaptered soldiers out for less. But, in this case, I doubt the command was aware of any of that or would have been, even if he had been enlisted.

[asta]

Hasan's Supervisor Warned Army In '07

 

But sources say that when the Army sent Hasan to Fort Hood earlier this year, Walter Reed sent the ****ing evaluation there, too. So commanders at Fort Hood would know exactly what they were getting.

[Osmosis Mom]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/17/fort.hood.suspect.imam/index.html#cnnSTCText

[lionfamily1999]

Why would he so half-heartedly look for a wife (if he was serious)? I'm curious, because it says he went to a few places, but didn't go back. It doesn't seem like he was really looking, more like just kicking the idea around. Maybe he had a religious crisis/ a crisis of faith?

[Mrs Mungo]

Hasan's Supervisor Warned Army In '07

 

But that memo doesn't appear to say anything about him possibly going off the deep end and killing a bunch of people. It appears (from the story) that it says he is a bad psychiatrist with poor work ethic. I'm amazed that Walter Reed foisted their problem child onto someone else instead of building a file and putting him out. I'm still not amazed that the hospital commander at Ft Hood didn't do more, he was there a relatively short time. Asking "should the Army have done something" isn't the same question as asking what should have been done by commanders at Hood.