Do you outline from the core text or another source read during the week?

[Mommy7]

I've been debating about the Kingfisher...whether to use the red or white to teach outlining. Then, when I was reading my WTM last night, it hit me that the outlining isn't even done from the Kingfisher or Usborne or whatever, but from "the most interesting history resource he's read during the week." (p. 283 of WTM)

 

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, will it matter which Kingfisher I use, then? I keep reading that people find the red one hard to outline from. But, according to the book, we aren't even supposed to be outlining from it, unless the child found that to be the most interesting source read during the week.

 

So, we use the Kingfisher or Usborne, etc. to pull the 6-8 important facts list from. Am I off or does this sound right?

[Wendy in ME]

Maybe this is just another reason that I need to break down and buy the new WTM. I am looking through my 2nd edition and it actually gives examples of outlines directly from KF. We are outlining from the red one but I think that I like the idea of using it only to introduce the topics and then outline from the source he chooses. I know this isn't any help for you but thanks for posting this question.

[VBCaroline]

We use the red KF as our spine, and we take our list of facts from KF, but we outline from other readings. Frequently we outline from the corresponding SOTW chapters, but we have used other sources, too. Sometimes we have difficulty finding appropriate passages to outline in our library books.

 

Caroline

[Mommy7]

Wendy,

 

That clears up why I keep reading about outlining from the KF then. Now, I understand. So, previous editions teach outlining that way? Well, it's all so clear now.

 

I'm glad my question helped you. Your response helped me too! :001_smile:

[Mommy7]

:D

[Sunkirst]

I think that SWB's updated coverage of logic stage outlining was one of the reasons to invest in the new WTM. Granted, just changing the recommendations as to what to use to outline is not worth the price; but the detailed instructions on how to outline have really helped us. We did outline from the Red KHE last year, and found it so condensed that it was difficult to pull the single "main topic" from a paragraph.

[Mommy7]

;)

[SilverMoon]

My logic stage kid does three history writing assignments a wee, roughly. We use the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia (newest red one, I think) as our spine. Ds writes up a list of facts from the next two page spread on "day one" of our weekly loop. On "day three" he makes an outline from another source, primarily library books on the same topic. Then he writes a summary of a topic or character we've covered in the week on "day five" to finish off the week.

[Mommy7]

SilverMoon, I love the simplicity of how you do the logic stage. I wrote it down for a pattern to follow. How long is the summary written on Day 5? Is it a paragraph? I have a 7th grader I'll be doing this with. She is new to outlining and writing summaries. Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks so much for responding. It was very helpful.

[Colleen in NS]

My logic stage kid does three history writing assignments a wee, roughly. We use the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia (newest red one, I think) as our spine. Ds writes up a list of facts from the next two page spread on "day one" of our weekly loop. On "day three" he makes an outline from another source, primarily library books on the same topic. Then he writes a summary of a topic or character we've covered in the week on "day five" to finish off the week.

 

We do the same thing, just on different days.

 

How long is the summary written on Day 5? Is it a paragraph? I have a 7th grader I'll be doing this with. She is new to outlining and writing summaries.

 

Ds' summary is a paragraph long. It is modeled after the grammar stage-style narrations, until he gets to rewriting from 3 level outlines (later part of next year), then we'll drop the narrations, and do summaries from outlines.

[SilverMoon]

SilverMoon, I love the simplicity of how you do the logic stage. I wrote it down for a pattern to follow. How long is the summary written on Day 5? Is it a paragraph? I have a 7th grader I'll be doing this with. She is new to outlining and writing summaries. Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks so much for responding. It was very helpful.

 

That depends on how interesting the topic was and how well my ds liked it. :lol: (For a kid that comes off as writing-phobic he sure can be verbose.) If he really likes the topic given I restrict him to one side of one notebook page, to teach him to pull out the main or most important parts. Otherwise two well written paragraphs are sufficient.

[Amy loves Bud]

I think that SWB's updated coverage of logic stage outlining was one of the reasons to invest in the new WTM. Granted, just changing the recommendations as to what to use to outline is not worth the price; but the detailed instructions on how to outline have really helped us.

 

:iagree:

 

Luke is outlining from one of the additional resources we pick up at the library each week. We use the white Kingfisher for the spine, and make our list of facts from that.

[Amy loves Bud]

My logic stage kid does three history writing assignments a wee, roughly. We use the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia (newest red one, I think) as our spine. Ds writes up a list of facts from the next two page spread on "day one" of our weekly loop. On "day three" he makes an outline from another source, primarily library books on the same topic. Then he writes a summary of a topic or character we've covered in the week on "day five" to finish off the week.

 

This is exactly how we do it as well, thought we use the white Kingfisher.

[Mommy7]

Would you say the white Kingfisher is easier to pull the facts from than the red one?

[Colleen in NS]

Would you say the white Kingfisher is easier to pull the facts from than the red one?

 

I think the white KF is easier to outline from, because it has more one-topic paragraphs, from what I remember. But the red KF, IMO, would be easier to just pull a few facts from, because the topics are shorter. You can get an overall "gist" of the topic, and then go on to deeper reading elsewhere.

[Mommy7]

Colleen, I am considering getting the white Kingfisher for that very reason. Even if they are just pulling 6-8 facts from the text, it seems it would be easier with the way the white one is written. Do you think?

 

Would I need to get the Usborne one for my 4th/5th grader or could he use the white Kingfisher also?

[Amy loves Bud]

Would you say the white Kingfisher is easier to pull the facts from than the red one?

 

I don't know, I don't have the red one. But the white one has plenty to choose from.

[Colleen in NS]

Colleen, I am considering getting the white Kingfisher for that very reason. Even if they are just pulling 6-8 facts from the text, it seems it would be easier with the way the white one is written. Do you think?

 

Would I need to get the Usborne one for my 4th/5th grader or could he use the white Kingfisher also?

 

I don't know, I haven't seen the white in a couple of years. It probably doesn't matter that much, if you are just looking for something to list facts from. Whichever seems easier to your student.

 

And with Usborne vs. white KF - at that age, it could be either - though if you are getting the KF anyway, you could probably start the 4th/5th grader on it, too.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

This is exactly how we do it as well, thought we use the white Kingfisher.

 

Sorry to resurrect this old thread. :D

 

We're going to be using the white Kingfisher for our logic stage history spine next year. In order to get through the time period, we'll need to do two two-page spreads each week. Do you have your son go through the writing process for each two-page topic, or do you have him read both and then do the writing/reading for only one of them? TIA!

[Amy loves Bud]

Normally only one per week. I don't think two would be terribly difficult as far as the writing goes, but it has the potential to be alot of reading depending on how much you can find on teh topics at the library.

[lovemykids]

My dd outlines from another source, not history, and not every week. We use our religious magazine and short fables or poems. When she does history summaries, they are two to three paragraphs long. :)

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Normally only one per week. I don't think two would be terribly difficult as far as the writing goes, but it has the potential to be alot of reading depending on how much you can find on teh topics at the library.

 

Thanks, Amy.

 

I've been reading the logic stage history section in the first edition of the WTM since we will be using the white Kingfisher and SWB does say to outline, do outside reading, and write a summary for each section.

 

I guess I'll wait and see how things go next year. :D I'm pretty sure he could handle all the reading, but I'm concerned about the writing.

[Lovedtodeath]

We don't do outlining yet, but I don't always have comprehension questions from SOTW or our current spine, sometimes they are based on other reading, so this makes sense. I would think using the same text week after week for a year would get pretty old.

[Matryoshka]

I'm not exactly following WTM, but I am a big outlining fan. I'm having my 6th graders outline a secondary science text we're using this year. For their main science text they read and answer the questions. For the supplementary book I assign them 7-8 pages a week to outline (the book has many large pictures, so each page only has about 1/3 p. of actual text). This will get them through the book over the course of the school year.

 

I'm not sure what I'll use for this next year. We'll be starting K12 Human Odyssey for history, but I'm planning to read it aloud. I think the World in Ancient Times series, which I'm thinking they'll read themselves, is too much to outline all of. Ooo... I just had an evil thought! I bought Gombrich's Little History of the World in German and wasn't sure how to fit it in - I could have them outline it over the course of the year... bwahaha - outlining, history and German in one easy step... :sneaky2: (<-we need a scheming smiley that isn't so mean looking... :tongue_smilie:)