eight_gregorys Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Okay....the nitty gritty. I have been homeschooling for 4 years. My children are DD 11, DS 7, DS 6, DS 6, DS 5, and DD2. Recently all, but my 7 yo have started public school. They are all extremely bright and doing fantastic so far. The reason DH and I decided to put them into school is because DS 7 has been struggling for awhile and I wanted to focus my attention on him. I have taken him to be evaluated. It didn't really help much, in that, all that we found out is that he is "developmentally delayed." This wasn't very surprising because I already knew that. He's been "developmentally delayed" in all milestones since he was born. Anyway, DS7 went to public school last year for about 6 months and it was unbearable for him. The teacher was snotty and rude. She actually told me that DS would never learn anything unless we medicated him. (He has ADHD and we have chosen not to medicate at this time.) Anyway, it was bad and he's been home ever since. Now to my issue. We just finished ABeCeDarian Level A-1 and we were getting ready to move on to A-2 when I discovered that DS has memorized all the words. He can read them while doing the lessons, but when it comes time to read those same words in a book or elsewhere he has no idea. He is very easily discourages and needs a lot of praise to get through a lesson. I don't know where to go from here. I'm starting to panic because he is almost 8 and can't read at all. He can't sound out anything and I don't know what to do. I've been trying to stick with the same program. I thought things would eventually click, but they haven't and I'm really freaking out. I went back and assessed his phonemic awareness and he still has issues with rhyming, segmenting, manipulating sounds, medial, and ending sounds. He does well with syllables. I have looked LiPs. It is very expensive and I'm worried about the learning curve as well. I have also looked at Earobics. I'm thinking we should address the phonemic awareness issues first. So any suggestions would be great. I'm really freaking out here. Has anyone BTDT and on the other side? Thanks! Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Another reading program you might look at is the I See Sam books from http://www.3rsplus.com It is WONDERFUL and I used it to teach both of my girls with special needs to read with it. The site has some links about using the cursor/notched card to help avoid having them memorize the words. The books are cute and he would likely enjoy the stories. Not knowing your reasons for not medicating, I will just mention that once we did start meds for ADHD here my now 12dd gained over 2 years of academic skills in less than 6 months---she could finally pay attention long enough to learn. We did this after trying various diets, supplements, coping things, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Andrea, LiPS could be part of the solution. I don't know anything about abcdarian, so I can't comment on why your ds might have been able to memorize the words instead of learn to read them. Does it have picture clues? I used Reading Reflex for a short time, and had similar problems with it because my 2nd dd could spell any word, but couldn't blend. The picture clues allowed her to appear to be reading, and in a short time she also had memorized the words. Anyway LiPS will work on how the mouth moves to form sounds. It will also use those movements to categorize all the consonants into groups based on how they are alike and similar. This creates great pegs to use when the child is having a hard time and can't remember a sound. Often just mentioning the label will help my son remember without having to give him the answer outright. From there it also looks at vowels and how they are formed and relate to one another. Then it will work with the phonological awareness work, which is good for focusing on hearing individual sounds in words. I have mixed feelings about it and think I actually prefer a modified version where the child works with the letters as well as the sounds, but my ds really doesn't have a problem hearing sounds in words. His problem is saying the sounds correctly. :001_huh: From there you probably would need a o/g reading program. Seeing Starts is put out by the same company and focuses on developing visual memory of words. Support for the programs seems sporadic. Some people find lots of local support and some people find the local centers to be not helpful in any way. I personally just bought Wilson Reading, but it doesn't have a lot of support either. Given I have already worked with so many phonics programs I am not overly worried about figuring it out. Preventing Academic Failure is another, and if you live in the New York area there is a dyslexic school you can visit and see how it is implemented. I am not sure if it has a lot of support if you don't live in the New York area. Barton Reading is probably the best to use for homeschooling because it comes with full videos to teach you how to teach the program. The two big down sides of it is that it is expensive (though you can sell each level as you go, most people do), and it has a set schedule/pace that makes it hard to modify if the student needs to move more quickly. There are tons of other o/g programs as well, those are just the ones I know more about. I do like the program Ottakee mentioned, except for one thing. I don't think it is multi-sensory (Am I wrong on that one?), and I am a huge fan of multi-sensory work. You could add the multi-sensory work, if you felt comfortable with that. I would love to see someone put together a schedule pulling together the reading and sensory work for those who needed it. That said I also found them a life saver to help build fluency when my dd just wasn't ready to move on into more complicated concepts, so consider adding them to anything you use. The notched card also helped her a lot. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight_gregorys Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Heather, My son is having the same type of difficulties you described. He knows all the proper sounds, but he cannot BLEND. It is so frustrating. We have worked on this forever and he just doesn't get it. He also has problems segmenting and with medial and ending sounds. He's getting better with medial and ending sounds, but he totally doesn't get segmenting. So did LiPs actually help with your little ones blending? If not, what did help? I would just hate to spend that much money on something if it's not going to be helpful. He has made progress over the past year. Just not as much progress as I had hoped for. Thanks for the replies so far. Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Check out http://www.3rsplus.com/documents/Getting_Started_With_READ_BRI1_000.pdf for some ideas on teaching blending. It took us FOREVER to get started but once my dd got it, she started making good progress. The other poster was right, I See Sam is not multi-sensory but personally I find that best. The child uses just the skills they need to read---say the sounds and blend them into the words. No extra learning of songs, hand motions, little phrases, etc. It cuts down on the amount of stuff they need to learn to start reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) Heather, My son is having the same type of difficulties you described. He knows all the proper sounds, but he cannot BLEND. It is so frustrating. We have worked on this forever and he just doesn't get it. He also has problems segmenting and with medial and ending sounds. He's getting better with medial and ending sounds, but he totally doesn't get segmenting. So did LiPs actually help with your little ones blending? If not, what did help? I would just hate to spend that much money on something if it's not going to be helpful. He has made progress over the past year. Just not as much progress as I had hoped for. Thanks for the replies so far. Andrea Andrea, At the time I switched to Spell to Write and Read and started drilling the phonograms daily in multi-sensory ways. She had problems even recalling the letter sounds when she went to blend (despite being able to recall them no problem for spelling). I have my kids work with making letter in playdoh then saying their sounds, tracing sand letter cards while saying their sounds, writing in sand while saying the letter sounds. Playing phonics bingo, phonics go fish and other phonics games. Anything that worked on reinforced the sound for the letters. I know Ottakee and I differ a bit on philosophy, but I do think we agree on more than we disagree on. I don't like songs either, as the brain stores songs in a different part of the mind, so the child usually then has to sing the song to remember the information. I would rather they have instant recall. I have the same feelings with using picture clues for letter sounds, like apple for /a/. The child again has to remember the apple, think of the first letter sound to remember that a says /a/. I would rather do the work (which will take longer) so that the child has instant recall of the sounds upon seeing the letter. Most of the hand motions I have seen are to give clues in spelling, and are not used in reading. For example several programs use "finger spelling" which is where the parent puts up finger for how many letters are in the word. The goal being you NEVER want the child to misspell the word, so you give them clues. In a word like be you would hold up two fingers. If the word were bee you would hold up three and the second two together so the child knows it is two letters making the one sound. Many o/g programs also use tapping, which is where when sounding out the sound the child taps under the letter, then when blending they sweep under all the letters with their hands. Another difference is units. Though I haven't decided what I think of units, and that would hands down fall under what Ottakee calls extra stuff to memorize. Programs like Spell to Write and Read, Writing Road to Reading and All About Spelling only teach the sounds that letter make. If it can be sounded out they have the child sound it out. They are not considered full o/g programs because of this (the first two also are not incremental-they teach all the sounds at once and all the rules at once where AAS does only teach one at a time). A full o/g program also teaches units. The idea is that a child will be able to read better because they will recognize these units and not have to sound them out every time. Common units taught are -old, -olt, -oll, -ild, -ind, -all, -alk. There are more I am sure. I have managed to teach 3 dyslexics to read without it, so I can say it is not necessary, but would it help with fluency? Enough to be worth the extra memorization? <shrug> don't know the answer to that. It is one of the ideas I want to really look at in Wilson when it shows up. The reason why I like multi-sensory work is because it creates multiple pathways in the brain. Thus if the child is having a bad day they have more resources with which to try to retrieve the information. If they are used to taping, just hearing the taping might help-that sort of thing. I think of it as having more hooks in the water to fish out the info with. I didn't have LiPS with my 2nd dd, so you might not need it. I wonder if a program like All About Spelling might work for you. He would still learn the rules and feel good because he will be doing what he does well, spell. You could work on letter sounds daily. AAS does have some phonological awareness work, and I just expand on it. First it started out with hearing the first sounds in words I just worked with three words a day till we covered the whole alphabet. Now we have switched to the last sounds in words, then we will do middle sounds to finish phonological awareness. Next it moves on to working with short vowels. If you wanted to use the I See Sam readers with AAS they would be a great combo. Double EE is introduced early in level 2, so after that they would have see and should be able to progress through the readers along side the spelling. That also gives him a whole spelling book to work with letter sounds before "needing" to blend. I can't guarentee it but I would think that if you take your time he should be blending by then. It is what I plan to do with my 6yo ds. I have a used Wilson set coming, but I am not convinced I will use it. I need to see how it works first. That is the approach I would take in your shoes. Heather Edited September 28, 2009 by siloam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight_gregorys Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Heather, I like your ideas. I actually bought AAS 1 a few months ago and just wasn't sure if he was ready. I know that my son learns best with a multi-sensory approach. That is the way he finally learned all of his letter sounds (after an entire YEAR of work). I appreciate everyone's responses. This has really been helpful. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance. DS is almost 8 and when I realized this, I started to panic because I thought he would be reading by now. The most frustrating part is I have 4 other children that learned to read with VERY little effort. Everything just clicked for them and they have no issues. I assumed with DS developmental delays that eventually it would be easy and it would just click. I just makes me sad because he tries so hard and he really wants to read. I hate to see him struggle so much and not feel "smart" even though I know he is very bright. :crying: How do you guys perservere? If I'm this frustrated, I can't imagine how he feels. Anyway, thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. Blessings, Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight_gregorys Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Heather, I just noticed we are both wives to super computer geeks. That is too funny. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) What does developmentally delayed mean in your son's case, exactly? What types of evaluations were done and who did them? You said in one of your posts that your son is really bright. How do you know this? What sorts of things does he do that make you think this? The reason I ask is that you could be describing my son at 7 as far as the reading troubles are concerned. My son has had a slew of diagnoses--ADHD, auditory processing disorder, sensory processing disorder, various vision problems, dyslexia, and to top it off, he is also gifted, though he didn't actually have the IQ scores to prove it until he was 12 (his scores went up 40 points from when he was tested at 7 to when he was tested at 12). He did OT and VT, which helped some. We did Audiblox which helped some more. He started taking medication for ADHD a year ago and it has helped quite a bit. We did Earobics somewhere in there and Brainware Safari too. Have you read Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz? I would also recommend The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide. Edited September 28, 2009 by EKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eight_gregorys Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 I took Matthew to have a neurodevelopmental assessment. The report I was given states that he has developmental delays and and not a specific LD. They used the WIAT-II to assess him. The doctor didn't feel like he had any specific issues except that he just seems to take longer than other children to do things. He always has. He didn't crawl until 11 months. He didn't walked until 20 months. He didn't talk until he was almost 3. I put him in PS in hopes of helping him "catch up" and that was a nightmare. The school system had issues with him in a regular classroom because he is very busy and constantly did things to isolate him from other children and it made him feel inferior and stupid. It was the hardest 6-months ever having to send him to that place. The sad thing is he really wants to go back. He loved being around other children and really loved school with the exception of learning to read. I say that he is bright because I think he is bright. Maybe I'm bias. He is good at things that he takes an interest in. I was told he doesn't have a good memory, but the child can memorize things he likes. He loves computers and I'm amazed that he is able to just figure out everything without help. I suppose it just my opinion. There is nothing to really base it on. He is such a special boy. He's very kind and sweet. He loves making new friends. Learning to read is just crushing his spirit. What does developmentally delayed mean in your son's case, exactly? What types of evaluations were done and who did them? You said in one of your posts that your son is really bright. How do you know this? What sorts of things does he do that make you think this? The reason I ask is that you could be describing my son at 7 as far as the reading troubles are concerned. My son has had a slew of diagnoses--ADHD, auditory processing disorder, sensory processing disorder, various vision problems, dyslexia, and to top it off, he is also gifted, though he didn't actually have the IQ scores to prove it until he was 12 (his scores went up 40 points from when he was tested at 7 to when he was tested at 12). He did OT and VT, which helped some. We did Audiblox which helped some more. He started taking medication for ADHD a year ago and it has helped quite a bit. We did Earobics somewhere in there and Brainware Safari too. Have you read Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz? I would also recommend The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Did they give you an IQ score at all? That said, you just keep keeping on and on and on with this learning to read thing. It honestly took my daughter weeks to learn that I was the word I. She knew it by its letter name but could not read it as the word (and I have NO idea why). I honestly used to doze off while she was trying to read a page with 3 simple words on it---it was THAT slow. Now, after working through sets 1-6 of the I See Sam books, she is reading easy chapter books, many non fiction books--esp. horse training books. Reading has just clicked for her. I would try the free I See Sam books that you can print out. Won't cost you more than the paper and ink (use econo fast) and he will be able to read a whole BOOK if he can read the 3 words used---I See Sam. For spelling, I REALLY like Apples and Pears spelling. They set things up so that the kids really don't have a chance to spell things wrong. It is daily lessons but no word list to learn, etc.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Heather, I like your ideas. I actually bought AAS 1 a few months ago and just wasn't sure if he was ready. I know that my son learns best with a multi-sensory approach. That is the way he finally learned all of his letter sounds (after an entire YEAR of work). I appreciate everyone's responses. This has really been helpful. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance. DS is almost 8 and when I realized this, I started to panic because I thought he would be reading by now. The most frustrating part is I have 4 other children that learned to read with VERY little effort. Everything just clicked for them and they have no issues. I assumed with DS developmental delays that eventually it would be easy and it would just click. I just makes me sad because he tries so hard and he really wants to read. I hate to see him struggle so much and not feel "smart" even though I know he is very bright. :crying: How do you guys perservere? If I'm this frustrated, I can't imagine how he feels. Anyway, thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. Blessings, Andrea Andrea, My oldest was a breeze like that but the other three have not been easy. I have already been working with my ds for 1.5 years, and he just now started to consistently be able to hear the first sound in a word. He still isn't blending, but just guessing. How do I do it? I just do because it needs to be done. I do have an advantage in that I am dyslexic. I have become Queen of slow and steady wins the race. Also don't be afraid to give them the sounds when they can't remember and step in and blend for them when they can't figure it out. I have already been doing that for my ds for a year. I blank on trying to recall stuff, so I know how that feels, how helpless. I don't let it hang I step in and give it to them. In time they do still get it, and own it. Heather p.s. Too funny about the Super Geek dh's! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) I took Matthew to have a neurodevelopmental assessment. The report I was given states that he has developmental delays and and not a specific LD. They used the WIAT-II to assess him. The doctor didn't feel like he had any specific issues except that he just seems to take longer than other children to do things. He always has. He didn't crawl until 11 months. He didn't walked until 20 months. He didn't talk until he was almost 3. I put him in PS in hopes of helping him "catch up" and that was a nightmare. The school system had issues with him in a regular classroom because he is very busy and constantly did things to isolate him from other children and it made him feel inferior and stupid. It was the hardest 6-months ever having to send him to that place. The sad thing is he really wants to go back. He loved being around other children and really loved school with the exception of learning to read. I say that he is bright because I think he is bright. Maybe I'm bias. He is good at things that he takes an interest in. I was told he doesn't have a good memory, but the child can memorize things he likes. He loves computers and I'm amazed that he is able to just figure out everything without help. I suppose it just my opinion. There is nothing to really base it on. He is such a special boy. He's very kind and sweet. He loves making new friends. Learning to read is just crushing his spirit. Since he has been delayed in milestones (crawling, walking, talking) You might try reading about Dyspraxia. You may find a picture frame in which all the pieces finally come together...at least it has for me. Many dyspraxic children struggle terribly with reading, math, handwriting, not to mention gross and/or fine motor functions. Often, there are overlapping issues in development, like adhd, dyslexia, dyscalculia, speech, auditory processing, etc. I feel your "panic", believe me. Just breathe. Read, search the internet, post on boards like this. You must gather information and arm yourself to blaze a way for your child. It won't be time lost. Earobics is a sensible place to start, especially if cost is an issue. Auditory processing is not unusual with these children. In addition, I'd start reading up on dyslexia and it's symptoms and see if any of those strike a chord. How is his mathematics? Can he ride a bike, tie his shoes? Please understand, I'm not offering a diagnosis...just suggesting a direction to investigate. Once you know what you're dealing with it's easier to remediate. Big, big hugs to you and an eye-to-eye, "You can do this" "Yes, you can". Be brave, be pro-active. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Heart-felt hugs, Geo Edited September 29, 2009 by Geo clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I say that he is bright because I think he is bright. Maybe I'm bias. He is good at things that he takes an interest in. I was told he doesn't have a good memory, but the child can memorize things he likes. He loves computers and I'm amazed that he is able to just figure out everything without help. I suppose it just my opinion. When my son was 7, I also thought he was bright, even though there was very little concrete evidence of it. Your instincts are likely correct. Even though they said he didn't have dyslexia, I would still read Overcoming Dyslexia just to see if anything resonates with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolally Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 We purchased Earobics and I was pretty disappointed with it. I would only buy it if you could find it used at a deep discount. If you happen to have insurance that covers it, (ours was filed as occupational therapy), we saw incredible gains in auditory issues with Tomatis therapy. It is an intense auditory integration program. I'm not sure that I would have paid out of pocket for it--but the smaller investment of the insurance co-pays was very worth it. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 For an 8 year old, I think you should have used Abecedarian SHORT A. There is no way to memorize the words because short A uses nonsense words. As a matter of fact, I think that Short A is superior to A1/A2 for all children and I'm sorry I sold my short version for the regular version. :glare: The nice thing with sticking with ABCD is that once they get to the B level, it moves to get them reading very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 My oldest dd8 sounds similar to your child. She was born premature and with only 1/2 of her cerebellum which controls motor and speech development. We did PT for first three years and speech for another 4yrs. I found tremendous help recently basically in how to help my daughter intergrate herself with the HANDLE institute in Seattle. I do not know where you live but they may be of some help. I learned that my daughter was seeing monocular, had sensitivities to light and of course her vestibular system is out of whack. So much has been explained, it is like looking at my kid with a new set of eyes. The evaluation was done only about two weeks ago and we are following the recommended exercises...I can already see a change in her. Maybe something I wrote can help. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) If he does well with syllables, you might want to try Webster's Speller, it's based on syllables. You could also try some nonsense words. My online lessons use nonsense words and some syllables, although not as syllable based as Webster. Also, my phonics game makes both nonsense and real words. I also like this website for learning sounds and how they are made, and a book called "Pure Phonics" that has step by step phonemic awareness exercises that is available for free online at Google Books, here's a quote from the book: Teaching pure phonics is giving instruction and drill on the phones or elementary sounds of our spoken language, entirely apart from letters, the training being of the ear alone. It is proposed that this drill should be begun in the kindergarten, continued in the primary, and practiced, for a few minutes daily, upon increasingly longer words in advanced schools. A more thorough acquaintance, than is usually gained during school life, with the elementary sounds of which our spoken English is composed, would conduce much toward bringing defective organs of speech in children to normal shape and use, improving the articulation and enunciation of people generally and, in time, producing a more correct and uniform pronunciation. My UPP has also been helpful for some of my remedial students, you could give it a try. And, finally, a bit complex but interesting, by Alexander Graham Bell's father, "Visible Speech" Edited October 15, 2009 by ElizabethB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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