Would you use MFW 1st in this situation? Or wait for spelling?

[Annie Laurie]

My 5 year old is reading beginning chapter books very fluently but it bothers me that he never learned phonics rules. He seems to intuit phonics and sounds out unfamiliar words without a problem.

 

He detests ETC, which I had thought would be an easy way of going over phonics with him. He is only 5 so I want whatever we do to be fun for him. He really likes Bible stories and reads his Children's Bibles over and over. He has advanced fine motor skills and loves drawing and doing hands-on things.

 

So with that background, would you try MFW 1st with him or just wait another year and then do a phonics based spelling program? I stupidly sold MFW 1st awhile ago but would try to find it used. I have seen it so I think he'd like it. (Please don't advice me to use MFW K! I know how the MFW boards feels about this but even 1st grade will be a lot of review for him).

 

I feel like he's been a little left out this year and might benefit from something that's just his. Any other suggestions are welcome also.

[cbollin]

Nicole,

 

I know you said not to say it.... (giggle giggle) Can I laugh it then?

Why not MFW K just for the science and Bible fun :lol:

I'm kidding. you're not interested. I was trying to be funny. The advantages of using MFW K with a 5 year old is for the fun involved with Bible and science, and for the more tactile practice with handwriting and using manipulatives for spelling lessons. But if you aren't interested.... that's ok. But that's one of the reasons that someone like me (who posts on mfw's board way too much) likes to encourage using that K program with 5 year olds -- for the fun, and the handwriting. and the time to let the fine motor skills get a little bit longer (and the general length of day of the programs.) I used it with a child who was already reading. But your question wasn't about if you could use K. never mind.... I'm just typing while waiting for supper.... I know.. you said not to say any of it... which is what makes it funny that I did say it. ;)

 

so...

 

If you are looking for spelling only, why not something like All About Spelling with your child?

 

If you are looking for phonics review that can be used for spelling, and handwriting practice and character development (with the Proverbs) and beginning composition: then you might do just fine with MFW 1, but only if he is ready for more sentence writing in about 30 or so days after you start the program. If you find that it gets to be too much writing for him, then slow it down, use the Reading Games in the manual appendix as writing/spelling games and adjust as you go.

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

I'm gonna' say go ahead with MFW 1st. ;) Yes, I know he's only 5, but honestly, if he's already reading chapter books, then going over the individual letter sounds and cvc words in K is going to be incredibly boring for him.

 

If he "really likes Bible stories and reads his Children's Bibles over and over. He has advanced fine motor skills and loves drawing and doing hands-on things," then the activities and Bible reader in the 1st grade program might be a great fit for him. Then just slow down and enjoy the ride if he stalls out somewhere along the way, due to age and maturity issues. And doesn't 1st grade beginning teaching some spelling rules, Crystal?

 

OTOH, if you want to just let him enjoy chapter books for a while and skip the phonics part of the K program, the science and Bible activities in K would still be a lot of fun for him. Then you could plan on addressing the phonics and spelling rules next year after he's matured a bit more.

 

It's your call, but I think either way could work in your situation. :001_smile: Just keep in mind his maturity level and be prepared to go faster or slower as needed.

[Sue G in PA]

You are describing my ds8. He learned to read all by himself. Just picked up a bood and started reading it to me one day. He internalizes the phonics rules and can also sound out unfamiliar words w/out problem. However, his spelling is not so good! So...we are using AAS, as Crystal already suggested to you. IF, you want just a rules-based spelling/phonices program. I would also recommend The Phonics Road To Reading and Spelling...just moving quickly through level 1 as your son is able. IF, however, you like MFW 1st for all that it has besides phonics...I'd use it! You could still use something like AAS or Phonics Road alongside or instead of the phonics in MFW 1st b/c it seems like your ds5 would be a bit bored...as mine is. We also tried ETC but he found it painfully boring. There is so much more to MFW 1st than just phonics that he would probably enjoy!

[cbollin]

I'm gonna' say go ahead with MFW 1st. ;) Yes, I know he's only 5, but honestly, if he's already reading chapter books, then going over the individual letter sounds and cvc words in K is going to be incredibly boring for him.

 

just agreeing on that in case my silly post didn't say it. Even MFW says that in some cases an older 5 year old (closer to 6) might be better to start in 1st and slow down when needed. But yeah, if he is writing and loves to draw and all of that...... and you want to do something that is just his -- it might be fun for him to use 1st grade. If he isn't big on seat work or writing...

 

And doesn't 1st grade beginning teaching some spelling rules, Crystal?

 

 

Yes. Even in the early review days where I was tempted (uh, I mean did) go too fast with my middle daughter, there are spelling rules with when to double L.F and S, there are the ck/k rules. There were a few others, but those stick in my brain right now after supper..... then as you into long vowels (day 18) and beyond that: it's practice spelling with those rules via dictations and reviews. Then in the review section for reading words, those become wonderful little spelling time.

And, don't go too fast, or you might miss the early grammar lessons that are in 1st grade too. Marie Hazell sneaks them in with lessons in the manual with some of the specific reading list lines: uses of capitals, some punctuation in there... I still smack my head and go "doh!" when I realize I skipped it with my middle child..... blush...... well, there's always the last kid,

 

Nicole, you'll do fine.

 

-crystal

[Annie Laurie]

Nicole,

 

I know you said not to say it.... (giggle giggle) Can I laugh it then?

Why not MFW K just for the science and Bible fun :lol:

I'm kidding. you're not interested. I was trying to be funny. The advantages of using MFW K with a 5 year old is for the fun involved with Bible and science, and for the more tactile practice with handwriting and using manipulatives for spelling lessons. But if you aren't interested.... that's ok. But that's one of the reasons that someone like me (who posts on mfw's board way too much) likes to encourage using that K program with 5 year olds -- for the fun, and the handwriting. and the time to let the fine motor skills get a little bit longer (and the general length of day of the programs.) I used it with a child who was already reading. But your question wasn't about if you could use K. never mind.... I'm just typing while waiting for supper.... I know.. you said not to say any of it... which is what makes it funny that I did say it. ;)

 

so...

 

If you are looking for spelling only, why not something like All About Spelling with your child?

 

If you are looking for phonics review that can be used for spelling, and handwriting practice and character development (with the Proverbs) and beginning composition: then you might do just fine with MFW 1, but only if he is ready for more sentence writing in about 30 or so days after you start the program. If you find that it gets to be too much writing for him, then slow it down, use the Reading Games in the manual appendix as writing/spelling games and adjust as you go.

 

-crystal

 

Crystal,

 

You're too much. :lol: I would totally use K just to have some fun if I just wanted something for us to do together, but I'd really love to be getting some phonics in too, since I can't seem to help obsessing about his lack of phonics instruction. My kids just can't seem to follow my timeline! ;)

 

His fine motor skills are strangely advanced. I think it comes from his desire to keep up with his siblings- he has always thought he could do whatever they do, never mind age differences. He has neat handwriting and writes in complete sentences and his favorite thing to do is sending letters- costs me a lot in stamps, but he gets a lot of writing practice in this way. My parents live 45 min away but get a letter from him at least once a week. :lol: So, the writing in 1st shouldn't be a problem.

 

I do have AAS 1 so I know it would be most practical to just use that but the notebook and math games in MFW seem right up his alley, it would be so much more fun.

 

I will definitely go into without any ending time in mind- if we need to slow it down we will, if it takes more than a school year, that's fine too.

[Annie Laurie]

I'm gonna' say go ahead with MFW 1st. ;) Yes, I know he's only 5, but honestly, if he's already reading chapter books, then going over the individual letter sounds and cvc words in K is going to be incredibly boring for him.

 

If he "really likes Bible stories and reads his Children's Bibles over and over. He has advanced fine motor skills and loves drawing and doing hands-on things," then the activities and Bible reader in the 1st grade program might be a great fit for him. Then just slow down and enjoy the ride if he stalls out somewhere along the way, due to age and maturity issues. And doesn't 1st grade beginning teaching some spelling rules, Crystal?

 

OTOH, if you want to just let him enjoy chapter books for a while and skip the phonics part of the K program, the science and Bible activities in K would still be a lot of fun for him. Then you could plan on addressing the phonics and spelling rules next year after he's matured a bit more.

 

It's your call, but I think either way could work in your situation. :001_smile: Just keep in mind his maturity level and be prepared to go faster or slower as needed.

 

Thank you! I needed confirmation that this wasn't a crazy idea. :D

[Annie Laurie]

You are describing my ds8. He learned to read all by himself. Just picked up a bood and started reading it to me one day. He internalizes the phonics rules and can also sound out unfamiliar words w/out problem. However, his spelling is not so good! So...we are using AAS, as Crystal already suggested to you. IF, you want just a rules-based spelling/phonices program. I would also recommend The Phonics Road To Reading and Spelling...just moving quickly through level 1 as your son is able. IF, however, you like MFW 1st for all that it has besides phonics...I'd use it! You could still use something like AAS or Phonics Road alongside or instead of the phonics in MFW 1st b/c it seems like your ds5 would be a bit bored...as mine is. We also tried ETC but he found it painfully boring. There is so much more to MFW 1st than just phonics that he would probably enjoy!

 

We own AAS and it's a great program but so painful for me, I just dread doing it. So you think the phonics in MFW 1st are too simple still or are you referring to K? I do think he would love the Bible notebook in 1st grade.

[Annie Laurie]

 

just agreeing on that in case my silly post didn't say it. Even MFW says that in some cases an older 5 year old (closer to 6) might be better to start in 1st and slow down when needed. But yeah, if he is writing and loves to draw and all of that...... and you want to do something that is just his -- it might be fun for him to use 1st grade. If he isn't big on seat work or writing...

 

 

 

 

Yes. Even in the early review days where I was tempted (uh, I mean did) go too fast with my middle daughter, there are spelling rules with when to double L.F and S, there are the ck/k rules. There were a few others, but those stick in my brain right now after supper..... then as you into long vowels (day 18) and beyond that: it's practice spelling with those rules via dictations and reviews. Then in the review section for reading words, those become wonderful little spelling time.

And, don't go too fast, or you might miss the early grammar lessons that are in 1st grade too. Marie Hazell sneaks them in with lessons in the manual with some of the specific reading list lines: uses of capitals, some punctuation in there... I still smack my head and go "doh!" when I realize I skipped it with my middle child..... blush...... well, there's always the last kid,

 

Nicole, you'll do fine.

 

-crystal

 

That's good to hear that MFW says it works in some cases for 5 yr olds. We'll take our time through the more advanced rules and grammar. If it turns out to be the worst idea ever, we can just put it away until next year.

[Momofeat]

My dd was also ahead in reading and phonics her K year, so we just did the K curriculum and substituted ETC + a few other things for language. We used the Primary Phonics readers. They have workbooks, but I've never used them. You can check them out at EPS books.

 

We're using 1st this year. While I think she could have handled it pretty well last year, I don't think either one of us would have enjoyed it nearly as much.

 

You may also find, as far as reading goes, that he can already read everything in MFW 1st. My dd read her Bible Story Book before we even started the year. The phonics skills are introduced very fast, and I am hoping that she'll be able to learn them for spelling, but she doesn't really need them for reading.

 

Sorry about rambling a bit. I'm sleepy tonight and having trouble corraling my thoughts. ;)

 

Bottom line: yes, he can probably do 1st, especially if he likes to write. But, MFW K is an awful lot of fun. I know you didn't really want to hear recommendations for K, but I just can't help it. It can be done at a quicker pace, and then 1st can be started early. We're flying through 1st and plan to get a really good start on ECC before this year is over.

[Donna A.]

Nicole, I'm going to copy and paste a portion of the Introduction from the 1st grade manual, just for your reading pleasure. :D (I went looking for the info because I'm trying to decide if my 6yo is ready to begin 1st grade or not.)

 

Here's the link to the full Intro that describes 1st grade in more detail: http://www.mfwbooks.com/1st_intro.htm

 

And then the portion about deciding whether your child's ready or not:

 

 

 

1. If your child has not successfully completed My Father’s World From A to Z kindergarten curriculum, please take some time to determine if your child is really ready to begin first grade.
   
   • Does your child know the 26 letter sounds (consonants and short vowels)? Letter names are not as important.
     
   • Is your child generally able to print alphabet letters correctly? Is he generally able to place letters accurately on kindergarten-sized lined paper?
     
   • Can he easily read short words such as “hat,†“pig,†and “men†without your help and without any accompanying pictures? (Was he taught how to blend sounds, not just memorize words?)
     
   • Is he developmentally able to sit long enough to copy 4-6 short words on kindergartensized lined paper without complaining or becoming tearful?
     
   • Is your child mature enough to sit cooperatively for 20-30 minute segments for structured school activities? (My Father’s World First Grade will take up to 2 hours each day to complete.)
     
   • Will your child be six by September 1? (Mature five-year-olds about whom you can answer yes to all of the above questions may be ready to begin first grade. We do not recommend beginning first grade with a four-year-old, even if he appears to be ready.)
      
     
     

 

If you can answer “yes†to all of the above questions, your child is most likely ready for first grade. If not, we recommend that you begin with My Father’s World From A to Z kindergarten curriculum.

 

It is important that your child has a strong foundation in beginning reading skills before he starts first grade. My Father’s World From A to Z teaches 26 letter names and sounds, handwriting, sound blending, reading short vowel words, and reading simple stories with short vowel words. The skills taught in kindergarten—especially reading short vowel words fluently for many months—give a child the foundation needed for success in first grade. My Father’s World First Grade quickly reviews these skills in the first three weeks of school and then moves on to new skills at a rapid pace.

 

If you are teaching the kindergarten curriculum to an older child you may use a modified schedule to teach three days of work each day. This would allow you to finish the kindergarten material in about three months and then go directly into My Father’s World First Grade.

 

 

[dhudson]

I used MFW1 with mine at 5. They were all reading fluently by 4 but I really wanted to make sure that they had the rules down pat and the character and Bible training in MFW1 is great. Mine loved the Bible Reader (still have each of theirs in their rooms) and had a great year. We added more reding but did all the phonics as it. The basics are always good to go over to provide a firm foundation for later.

[Annie Laurie]

My dd was also ahead in reading and phonics her K year, so we just did the K curriculum and substituted ETC + a few other things for language. We used the Primary Phonics readers. They have workbooks, but I've never used them. You can check them out at EPS books.

 

We're using 1st this year. While I think she could have handled it pretty well last year, I don't think either one of us would have enjoyed it nearly as much.

 

You may also find, as far as reading goes, that he can already read everything in MFW 1st. My dd read her Bible Story Book before we even started the year. The phonics skills are introduced very fast, and I am hoping that she'll be able to learn them for spelling, but she doesn't really need them for reading.

 

Sorry about rambling a bit. I'm sleepy tonight and having trouble corraling my thoughts. ;)

 

Bottom line: yes, he can probably do 1st, especially if he likes to write. But, MFW K is an awful lot of fun. I know you didn't really want to hear recommendations for K, but I just can't help it. It can be done at a quicker pace, and then 1st can be started early. We're flying through 1st and plan to get a really good start on ECC before this year is over.

 

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I honestly think he would complain about the K program. I have a hard time figuring out what to do with him- I worry that I sound like a pushy mom who thinks her kid is brilliant (don't we all!) and I don't want to push him, so I try things like ETC. Then he complains and complains that it's too babyish. He has not been having much fun this year because he hasn't liked anything I've tried with him. He's mostly been tagging along and he listens to everything from my older kids' programs fine. I think 1st grade might be a good fit.

[Annie Laurie]

Nicole, I'm going to copy and paste a portion of the Introduction from the 1st grade manual, just for your reading pleasure. :D (I went looking for the info because I'm trying to decide if my 6yo is ready to begin 1st grade or not.)

 

Here's the link to the full Intro that describes 1st grade in more detail: http://www.mfwbooks.com/1st_intro.htm

 

And then the portion about deciding whether your child's ready or not:

 

 

 

1. If your child has not successfully completed My Father’s World From A to Z kindergarten curriculum, please take some time to determine if your child is really ready to begin first grade.
   • Does your child know the 26 letter sounds (consonants and short vowels)? Letter names are not as important.

   • Is your child generally able to print alphabet letters correctly? Is he generally able to place letters accurately on kindergarten-sized lined paper?

   • Can he easily read short words such as “hat,†“pig,†and “men†without your help and without any accompanying pictures? (Was he taught how to blend sounds, not just memorize words?)

   • Is he developmentally able to sit long enough to copy 4-6 short words on kindergartensized lined paper without complaining or becoming tearful?

   • Is your child mature enough to sit cooperatively for 20-30 minute segments for structured school activities? (My Father’s World First Grade will take up to 2 hours each day to complete.)

   • Will your child be six by September 1? (Mature five-year-olds about whom you can answer yes to all of the above questions may be ready to begin first grade. We do not recommend beginning first grade with a four-year-old, even if he appears to be ready.)

      

      

 

If you can answer “yes†to all of the above questions, your child is most likely ready for first grade. If not, we recommend that you begin with My Father’s World From A to Z kindergarten curriculum.

 

It is important that your child has a strong foundation in beginning reading skills before he starts first grade. My Father’s World From A to Z teaches 26 letter names and sounds, handwriting, sound blending, reading short vowel words, and reading simple stories with short vowel words. The skills taught in kindergarten—especially reading short vowel words fluently for many months—give a child the foundation needed for success in first grade. My Father’s World First Grade quickly reviews these skills in the first three weeks of school and then moves on to new skills at a rapid pace.

 

If you are teaching the kindergarten curriculum to an older child you may use a modified schedule to teach three days of work each day. This would allow you to finish the kindergarten material in about three months and then go directly into My Father’s World First Grade.

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much Donna, that was very helpful!

[Annie Laurie]

I used MFW1 with mine at 5. They were all reading fluently by 4 but I really wanted to make sure that they had the rules down pat and the character and Bible training in MFW1 is great. Mine loved the Bible Reader (still have each of theirs in their rooms) and had a great year. We added more reding but did all the phonics as it. The basics are always good to go over to provide a firm foundation for later.

 

This makes me feel better about trying this, thanks!

[Cornerstone Classical]

we are in our 2nd week of MFW 1st. Will your 5 yr old be 6 soon? I would say go ahead a try it. You can always slow it down if it becomes challenging for him. If he hits a spot that's getting a little over his head then slow down, and stay there for how ever long it takes.

 

My dd and I worked with OPGTR for a yr and 1/2. I didn't ever think she would catch onto reading. But she has loved MFW so far!!!!!!!!!!!:001_smile:

[Annie Laurie]

we are in our 2nd week of MFW 1st. Will your 5 yr old be 6 soon? I would say go ahead a try it. You can always slow it down if it becomes challenging for him. If he hits a spot that's getting a little over his head then slow down, and stay there for how ever long it takes.

 

My dd and I worked with OPGTR for a yr and 1/2. I didn't ever think she would catch onto reading. But she has loved MFW so far!!!!!!!!!!!:001_smile:

 

He won't be 6 until May. We will definitely just slow down where need be. And if it turns out to be a bad idea I'll just put it away for awhile.

[Donna A.]

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I honestly think he would complain about the K program. I have a hard time figuring out what to do with him- I worry that I sound like a pushy mom who thinks her kid is brilliant (don't we all!) and I don't want to push him, so I try things like ETC. Then he complains and complains that it's too babyish. He has not been having much fun this year because he hasn't liked anything I've tried with him. He's mostly been tagging along and he listens to everything from my older kids' programs fine. I think 1st grade might be a good fit.

 

You know, Nicole, my firstborn was like this. My two younger gals have loved ETC, and both of them have been slow learners and struggling with language skills. But my firstborn sounds a lot like your little guy. If I had known about and done MFW with her, she would've done just fine with the 1st grade level at age 5. And she hated ETC, btw. Thought it was boring. ;)

 

I wouldn't have tried it on my other two, though.

 

I would've really appreciated the math in MFW 1st with my oldest at that time.

[Annie Laurie]

You know, Nicole, my firstborn was like this. My two younger gals have loved ETC, and both of them have been slow learners and struggling with language skills. But my firstborn sounds a lot like your little guy. If I had known about and done MFW with her, she would've done just fine with the 1st grade level at age 5. And she hated ETC, btw. Thought it was boring. ;)

 

I wouldn't have tried it on my other two, though.

 

I would've really appreciated the math in MFW 1st with my oldest at that time.

 

That's good to hear! I too think the math games and activities would be fun for him.