What are 4th graders in US learning?

[Cammie]

Folks,

 

I am trying to assess our school here in India and determine the gaps in order to figure out whether afterschooling will solve the problem or do we really need to consider full time homeschooling.

 

My 8 year old is in 4th grade. She is already a year ahead in school. She is learning the following: English (capitalization, parts of speech), Science (classification of living things, human body), Math (multiplications, two-digit addition/subtraction), Social Studies (geography of India, culture of India, Indian states and capitals), Hindi, Computer (drawing with MS Draw). There is no writing currently being done and the rest of it strikes me as woefully inadequate. They will have no world history and of course she is not learning any US history/geography/culture. I am currently addressing the world and US history part of the program as well as adding in a writing class and another Indian language.

 

Does her program strike you as inadequate as well? She is happy, likes school but certainly is not challenged by the current program.

 

Thanks!

- Cammie

[Jane]

Do you own a copy of The Well Trained Mind? I highly recommend it. :thumbup1:

[Cammie]

I am having trouble finding a book store here in India that carries it! Will be having someone bring it from US for me in November!

[SilverMoon]

The Worldbook typical course of study could give you a starting place. http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?curriculum Those lists are in line with the average public school pace (read: not classical).

[TC5]

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/

 

This site also has detailed concept lists for every subject and grade. Again, it is for public school but can serve as a guide.

 

Here's some very subjective but hopefully a little bit helpful anecdotal evidence: My husband is from India, and I am regularly surprised that he did not receive the same kind of education as I did in the United States. Not that his was inadequate, but it was definitely different, of course. He now has a master's degree, earned in the United States, but he had little to no education in the arts. He does speak 4 languages, but he doesn't seem to have learned about literature, drawing or other art forms, music, health, biology, earth science, astronomy, and so many more topics. He does have a strong background in math and some science (chemistry, physics, computers). He is an excellent problem-solver, so he must have learned a bit of logic somehow or was born that way. :) He is also familiar with Indian history and some British history, mostly as it affected India. When I met him, he knew little but the basics about any other nation and even then only modern history (not who was on which side in the world wars but maybe he'd know approximately when they took place). I don't know when this specialization took place or whether he just tuned out or forgot most subjects. Maybe education is more well-rounded in fourth grade. My husband has always been smart it seems, as he skipped first grade and did very well in school there with little studying. He is also fairly conversant in world geography, but that could easily be a result of his career that has required world travel for the past 11 years. (He was in Bangalore recently, by the way!)

 

I'm sure that's not a lot of help, but it may give you something to think about. Maybe the education your daughter is getting is good but not as well-rounded as you'd like. Reading good literature could actually help with a lot of the holes, I think. Discussing unfamiliar concepts, places, occupations, activities, etc., could give your daughter an excellent informal but deep education.

 

On another topic, if you don't mind -- what are you using to teach your children Telugu? If it's a class or tutor, I don't need to know. :) But if you've found any curriculum that works for native English speakers to learn Telugu, I'd love to hear about it. My husband's first language is Telugu, but he hasn't taught us much.

 

Good luck!

[Cammie]

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/

 

This site also has detailed concept lists for every subject and grade. Again, it is for public school but can serve as a guide.

 

Here's some very subjective but hopefully a little bit helpful anecdotal evidence: My husband is from India, and I am regularly surprised that he did not receive the same kind of education as I did in the United States. Not that his was inadequate, but it was definitely different, of course. He now has a master's degree, earned in the United States, but he had little to no education in the arts. He does speak 4 languages, but he doesn't seem to have learned about literature, drawing or other art forms, music, health, biology, earth science, astronomy, and so many more topics. He does have a strong background in math and some science (chemistry, physics, computers). He is an excellent problem-solver, so he must have learned a bit of logic somehow or was born that way. :) He is also familiar with Indian history and some British history, mostly as it affected India. When I met him, he knew little but the basics about any other nation and even then only modern history (not who was on which side in the world wars but maybe he'd know approximately when they took place). I don't know when this specialization took place or whether he just tuned out or forgot most subjects. Maybe education is more well-rounded in fourth grade. My husband has always been smart it seems, as he skipped first grade and did very well in school there with little studying. He is also fairly conversant in world geography, but that could easily be a result of his career that has required world travel for the past 11 years. (He was in Bangalore recently, by the way!)

 

I'm sure that's not a lot of help, but it may give you something to think about. Maybe the education your daughter is getting is good but not as well-rounded as you'd like. Reading good literature could actually help with a lot of the holes, I think. Discussing unfamiliar concepts, places, occupations, activities, etc., could give your daughter an excellent informal but deep education.

 

On another topic, if you don't mind -- what are you using to teach your children Telugu? If it's a class or tutor, I don't need to know. :) But if you've found any curriculum that works for native English speakers to learn Telugu, I'd love to hear about it. My husband's first language is Telugu, but he hasn't taught us much.

 

Good luck!

 

Teonei - I am starting to believe that many Indians became successful and intelligent in spite of the schooling here and not because of it! There are many different types of schools. The most popular ones for Indian families are the ones that are very rigorous academically but from a very traditional, memorization type of method. No creative learning and very little extracurricular work. My husband has no background in world history, writing, world classic literature, etc. But he went to grad school in the US and developed into a top engineer!

 

We have tried schools that are trying to follow a different path. These schools mostly appeal to familes that have returned from living abroad. However, they seem to be lost in terms of what to actually teach! I know many families here that have turned to homeschooling out of a feeling that we just cannot find what our kids need in any school (and Bangalore has many, many schools!)

 

In terms of Telugu - no we don't have a curriculum per se, there are lots of basic Telugu aids that you can pick up in any shop (like Telugu ABCs) but we rely on the services of a Telugu tutor in the neighborhood. My husband also was terrible in teaching Telugu when we were in the US. Language learning was one of the motivating factors in our move. One of the great things about living here is being able to get such people to come home and teach - and for relatively little money. My daughter's Hindi tutor comes home twice a week for an hour at a time for about $10 per month!

 

People here in Bangalore generally speak about 4-5 languages (Hindi, English, Kannada, Telugu, Tamil.) This is true even for uneducated people like maids and drivers - it is simply a necessity of life!

 

If you are ever planning a trip to India - let me know! Us Telugu wives need to stick together!:seeya:

[TC5]

 

If you are ever planning a trip to India - let me know! Us Telugu wives need to stick together!:seeya:

 

Sure thing! My husband's family is still in India, so we go occasionally, but I think his parents will be coming here again before our next venture there.

 

Hopefully you can get The Well-Trained Mind or other information about homeschooling/afterschooling. It's a wonderful way of life!

 

Take care!

[Cammie]

The Worldbook typical course of study could give you a starting place. http://www.worldbook.com/wb/Students?curriculum Those lists are in line with the average public school pace (read: not classical).

 

 

That was a very big help, it gives me a concrete place to start looking at the gaps that exist and figuring out how best to address them!

[Cammie]

Sure thing! My husband's family is still in India, so we go occasionally, but I think his parents will be coming here again before our next venture there.

 

Hopefully you can get The Well-Trained Mind or other information about homeschooling/afterschooling. It's a wonderful way of life!

 

Take care!

 

 

Let me know if you need to do an in-law vent during that time!!

[elfgivas]

i wish you'd posted earlier this month; dh is just back from bangalore! i'll pm you the next time he heads over to see if you need anything...

 

ann

[Cammie]

i wish you'd posted earlier this month; dh is just back from bangalore! i'll pm you the next time he heads over to see if you need anything...

 

ann

 

 

That is very sweet of you! I should be good for the next few months - but thanks for the offer! If he ever needs help in Bangalore - let me know!

[dangermom]

I'd say that the curriculum you list has some deficiencies by California public school standards (though keep in mind that CA talks a good line and the schools are in huge trouble!). I don't know about other states, but 4th graders ought to be learning division facts and getting to long division by the end of the year, and doing some writing. A lot of time in 4th grade in the US is taken up by state history. Science tends to be pretty minimal IIRC.

 

You might like to supplement with Singapore math and a good writing program, at least. I love Classical Writing, which isn't quite secular but almost is (it's easy to tell from the introduction that the writers are Christians, but the material does not contain religious teachings. Since the models are all chosen for cultural, moral, and literary excellence, a few are selections for the KJV Bible, but it's all about the writing. And you can choose your own models if you prefer).

[Cammie]

I'd say that the curriculum you list has some deficiencies by California public school standards (though keep in mind that CA talks a good line and the schools are in huge trouble!). I don't know about other states, but 4th graders ought to be learning division facts and getting to long division by the end of the year, and doing some writing. A lot of time in 4th grade in the US is taken up by state history. Science tends to be pretty minimal IIRC.

 

You might like to supplement with Singapore math and a good writing program, at least. I love Classical Writing, which isn't quite secular but almost is (it's easy to tell from the introduction that the writers are Christians, but the material does not contain religious teachings. Since the models are all chosen for cultural, moral, and literary excellence, a few are selections for the KJV Bible, but it's all about the writing. And you can choose your own models if you prefer).

 

 

Thanks - I just checked out the Classical Writing program based on your comment - very interesting! Boy, I am starting to wish I had this kind of education!