Testing: WISC questions and non-verbal IQ tests

[kokotg]

I got my son's WISC IV results back today. We had him tested at a local university after going back and forth for a long time about whether it would be useful to have the score or not. Finally we decided it wasn't that much money, we might want to enroll him in a gifted program of some kind at some point, and, at any rate, it couldn't hurt, right? Well, maybe. They don't usually do feedback sessions, but Ari's results were so fascinating, apparently, that they wanted me to come in and talk about him. This left me spending two weeks speculating as to what his test results were and why they were so darn interesting.

 

Basically, it turns out, his verbal comprehension score is way lower than his other scores--it is, in fact, "Not Interpretable"....because he refused to answer a lot of the questions. He's a VERY shy kid; we've suspected we could get a selective mutism diagnosis for him, in fact, because he pretty much doesn't speak to people he doesn't know well. Had I researched the WISC a bit more beforehand, I would have realized how heavily it relied on verbal answers and predicted exactly what would happen. Oh well. So now I'm kind of...not sure what to do next. If anything. I don't have a full scale IQ score at all (it was also "Not Interpretable" because of the verbal score). The perceptual reasoning score is quite high, but even with that I wonder to what extent I should trust it since he clearly was dealing with a lot of anxiety about having to interact with a scary stranger.

 

I'm wondering if I should look for a non-verbal test he could take. I don't know. Having come this far, I'd just sort of like to have a valid score. What are the options for non-verbal tests? I just read a bit about the Ravens...my concern with that is that it seems like it focuses almost entirely on the same kind of thinking as the Perceptual Reasoning part of the WISC. I think his verbal skills are quite good--maybe even better than his visual spatial skills--so I'd like something that could give us an accurate picture of that. I guess mostly I'm wondering if there's a test that would take the examiner out of the equation--where he could sit and take a test without interacting with someone he doesn't know, so that social anxiety didn't throw things off.

 

ETA: also interesting is that his "similarities" verbal subtest score was actually pretty good--95th percentile. That's the one that requires the shortest answers. Oh--and she said that he often looked like he was about to respond and then wouldn't say anything. I.e. it's pretty clear he often knew the answers but didn't want to talk.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited August 13, 2009 by kokotg

[EKS]

If you want a valid full scale score (or even a GAI, which you don't have now either) would wait a year or two and have it redone. I would also be sure to find an evaluator that understands that your son might be anxious to the point of not responding and is on board to take steps to prevent this. It is also important for the evaluator to be experienced with gifted kids.

 

FWIW--Neither of my kids have a full scale score. But they do have a valid GAI, so I'm happy with that.

[kokotg]

Thanks, EKS...yeah, I don't really know that there's anything anyone could DO to prevent him from clamming up (aside from taking several months to get to know Ari before attempting to test him, but this seems impractical ;)). But in a couple of years, who knows?

[melmichigan]

I'm not aware of any non-verbal IQ tests but would be interested in asking the psychologist if he could write or type his answers. You are right at the top of the golden age for testing but that doesn't mean that future testing wouldn't be worthwhile. Have you considered achievement or above level testing on something non-verbal, such as the Explore? You do have the anxiety if he has trouble with unknown places but it isn't a verbal test and is highly regarded.

[shadowcat]

If you do this again, it might be best if the examiner schedules a few sessions for the testing, and spends the entirety of the first one simply working on establishing rapport.

 

Doing the Wechsler in writing is not a possibility for several reasons. There might be another IQ test that can be taken that way. He might also do better with a more brief test like the KBIT, but that's less valid than a full test and also if you want this for schools they may well not accept it.

 

What is it that you want from a test?

 

Oh, and FYI since he just took the WISC IV, he can't take it again for like 2 years. He could use the Kaufman, but again school systems like the Wechsler best.

[Laurie4b]

I got my son's WISC IV results back today. We had him tested at a local university after going back and forth for a long time about whether it would be useful to have the score or not. Finally we decided it wasn't that much money, we might want to enroll him in a gifted program of some kind at some point, and, at any rate, it couldn't hurt, right? Well, maybe. They don't usually do feedback sessions, but Ari's results were so fascinating, apparently, that they wanted me to come in and talk about him. This left me spending two weeks speculating as to what his test results were and why they were so darn interesting.

 

Basically, it turns out, his verbal comprehension score is way lower than his other scores--it is, in fact, "Not Interpretable"....because he refused to answer a lot of the questions. He's a VERY shy kid; we've suspected we could get a selective mutism diagnosis for him, in fact, because he pretty much doesn't speak to people he doesn't know well. Had I researched the WISC a bit more beforehand, I would have realized how heavily it relied on verbal answers and predicted exactly what would happen. Oh well. So now I'm kind of...not sure what to do next. If anything. I don't have a full scale IQ score at all (it was also "Not Interpretable" because of the verbal score). The perceptual reasoning score is quite high, but even with that I wonder to what extent I should trust it since he clearly was dealing with a lot of anxiety about having to interact with a scary stranger.

 

I'm wondering if I should look for a non-verbal test he could take. I don't know. Having come this far, I'd just sort of like to have a valid score. What are the options for non-verbal tests? I just read a bit about the Ravens...my concern with that is that it seems like it focuses almost entirely on the same kind of thinking as the Perceptual Reasoning part of the WISC. I think his verbal skills are quite good--maybe even better than his visual spatial skills--so I'd like something that could give us an accurate picture of that. I guess mostly I'm wondering if there's a test that would take the examiner out of the equation--where he could sit and take a test without interacting with someone he doesn't know, so that social anxiety didn't throw things off.

 

ETA: also interesting is that his "similarities" verbal subtest score was actually pretty good--95th percentile. That's the one that requires the shortest answers. Oh--and she said that he often looked like he was about to respond and then wouldn't say anything. I.e. it's pretty clear he often knew the answers but didn't want to talk.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I would get treatment for the anxiety since it sounds extreme. Later, you can retest.

[kokotg]

Have you considered achievement or above level testing on something non-verbal, such as the Explore? You do have the anxiety if he has trouble with unknown places but it isn't a verbal test and is highly regarded.

 

I was looking at the Explore yesterday...unknown places are not so much an issue; I think he'd do fine with that. He has to take a standardized test sometime this year because of Georgia's homeschooling regulations, anyway--so testing is something he is going to have to be able to handle, one way or another.

 

 

What is it that you want from a test?

 

 

 

ha--good question. Mostly just our own information, and since I've heard it's best to test by 7 or 8, I thought we should go ahead and do it now, and then if we DO need the score, we'll have it. There are a few gifted programs we've considered looking into for him...a college near us offers a Saturday school for gifted kids (which I think we do have enough information for at this point. The examiner told me they'd be happy to write a letter explaining things if we need a score for admission to a program). And I thought we'd look into Davidson's Young Scholars if he qualified (he doesn't, based on what we have right now. He was 99.5th percentile in the perceptual reasoning, and they want 99.9th. But if we had an accurate verbal, who knows?) Really, we just went back and forth for awhile about whether testing would be helpful, and we ultimately figured...why not? But now that we've come this far, it's just kind of irking me that we didn't get an accurate score out of it. But it might well not be worth dealing with another test to get a score.

 

I would get treatment for the anxiety since it sounds extreme. Later, you can retest.

 

He saw a therapist for most of last year about the anxiety. She thought he was doing well and didn't need to come anymore. There's a lot of history...he has a hearing loss in one ear that we believe led to lot of the social anxiety stuff. He's made huge improvements over the past couple of years (since we learned about the hearing loss and he got a hearing aid). He's doing much, much better than he was before--has a good number of close friends, will talk in small group settings, doesn't show much anxiety in day to day life...but, yeah, he's not there yet with the talking to strangers thing. And then throw him into a test setting where his perfectionist issues come out (he pretty much won't offer an answer to a question unless he's positive he's right, even at home with me)...and, well, you don't get a valid test result.

 

Typing it all out and thinking it through, it doesn't really seem like another test makes sense right now. I'll just have to live with my overwhelming curiosity as to what that pesky verbal score would have been ;) And the nice thing about this thread has been that I've finally learned how to multi-quote!

[Guest sunnych]

not sure but i will look some and post back ..

[Pongo]

Thanks, EKS...yeah, I don't really know that there's anything anyone could DO to prevent him from clamming up (aside from taking several months to get to know Ari before attempting to test him, but this seems impractical ;)). But in a couple of years, who knows?

 

I found someone that actually spent some time with my dd while she was younger. I would take my dd in to her office 3 x's a week, just to play and talk. It was only about 30 minutes each time. After a month she was soooo comfortable she tested extremely well. This woman was a child psychologist and she was only going for the test, not any other issues:)

[kokotg]

I found someone that actually spent some time with my dd while she was younger. I would take my dd in to her office 3 x's a week, just to play and talk. It was only about 30 minutes each time. After a month she was soooo comfortable she tested extremely well. This woman was a child psychologist and she was only going for the test, not any other issues:)

 

Interesting...that might work well. We don't really have the money to spend on it, though...we wouldn't have tested in the first place if it hadn't been inexpensive. But it turns out DS has a few too many issues for bargain IQ testing :)