Very important question to keep me culturally informed....Godzilla?

[battlemaiden]

Is Godzilla bad or good?

 

I'm serious.

 

I've never seen a Godzilla movie, and God help me I had hoped to die without ever having so. But I live in Hawaii and we have a Japanese channel that my child-like dh thinks is HILARIOUS. They have discovered an episode called Godzilla versus MechaGodzilla and my entire family is enthralled (all my efforts in exposing the children to cultural excellence flushed:p).

 

So the question remains...is Godzilla good or bad?

 

I'm so ashamed ;)

 

Jo

[Karenciavo]

I wish I saw this post before ds14 went to bed. I'll have to let him add his thoughts tomorrow. Basically, sometimes Godzilla is good and sometimes he is bad, depends on the movie.

 

Karenciavo, aka Momagon (monster of too strict mothers)

 

[battlemaiden]

Do you mean that Godzilla has layers? He isn't the one dimensional creature I naively assumed him to be? This is indeed eye opening.

 

I asked the question tongue in cheek, but my dc were actually taking sides on whether Godzilla was bad or good. It so happens that in this episode Godzilla is a parent. This naturally caused all children under 8yrs to categorically declare Godzilla as good.:D Of course my older two, whose youthful innocence has been shattered by the fact that indeed parents can do bad ;)(or breath fire like their own mom) decided it must be a bad creature.

 

I would love to hear your son's input, and I appreciate you opening the door of possibility that Godzilla is more complex than I originally believed.:p

 

Thanks Karen.

 

Jo

[Mamagistra]

Karenciavo, aka Momagon (monster of too strict mothers)

 

LOL When Latin falls prey to horseplay and banter, I become Ma-MONSTER-stra! :D Even the 4yo calls me this.

[Mama Lynx]

My husband says that Godzilla is amoral. He is a representation of the Japanese feeling of irrelevance and helplessness after their defeat in the second world war. Godzilla represents the U.S. stomping around the country without understanding it or caring, but still somehow protecting it against dangers from the outside world.

 

My husband also thinks too much about these things. However, if you take his ideas, I am *certain* you could get a really good educational discussion going ;-)

[Laura Corin]

My husband says that Godzilla is amoral. He is a representation of the Japanese feeling of irrelevance and helplessness after their defeat in the second world war. Godzilla represents the U.S. stomping around the country without understanding it or caring, but still somehow protecting it against dangers from the outside world.

 

My husband also thinks too much about these things. However, if you take his ideas, I am *certain* you could get a really good educational discussion going ;-)

 

Laura

[Karenciavo]

My husband also thinks too much about these things. However, if you take his ideas, I am *certain* you could get a really good educational discussion going ;-)

 

I'm sure my son will post something like this as well, especially if we are talking about the first movie. The original Japanese version of "Godzilla", which did not include Raymond Burr, is a pretty good movie. There are different eras in the history of Godzilla movies, some are deeper than others (anyone remember Jet Jaguar?)

 

Karen

[Chris in VA]

I can so relate--ds18 was really into Godzilla when he was about 9. We even got him giant plastic creatures (well, they were only about 10 inches, really) so he could play Godzilla with them. Gotta love that Mothra! My brother also used to watch these on Saturdays--for about a year, a particular channel in Ohio ran them over and over--the Saturday Monster Movie.

 

In the first Godzilla, he's "bad," hurting humans. In the others, he protects the world from alien invaders, mostly. (I mean Godzilla, not my brother.)

 

And yes, Mama Lynx has brought up excellent Godzilla theology. (hahahahaha)

 

The only one we didn't like (or part of one) was the movie with the twin "fairy-like" sisters. Bleh.

 

My son went on to be normal. I will say, tho', that we both enjoyed Cloverfield this summer! But that was mostly for the camera work, as he wants to go into film.

[Karenciavo]

Hi! I'm ds14. I'd be happy to give an explanation about Godzilla:

 

In his first movie, called Gojira (or Godzilla, King of the Monsters), Godzilla is portrayed as a force of nature, like that of hurricane (the movie itself was an allegory about the horrors of nuclear weapons.) He is a being that is trying to exist, and Tokyo just happens to be in his way. This results in a fantastic movie that I suggest you rent (make sure that it is the copy without Raymond Burr.) This is how Godzilla started. But for the next 20 years, Godzilla would slowly take a turn in character, from force of nature to world protector. This is a result of the directors and producers at Toho studios (the company that made such films as Godzilla, Seven Samurai, and Yojimbo) who saw a large profitability in children seeing the movie. And do children like dark, allegorical movies? Not really. But many children do like Super Heroes. This is how Godzilla changed (for the worse, as many G-fans see it.) In 1975, Toho decided to stop making the Godzilla movies, as they were becoming less popular. No one would see Godzilla again until the 80s. This first series of Godzilla movies have become known as the Showa Series.

 

Now, for the '80s-'90s (a.k.a. the Heisei Series). Godzilla made a comeback in 1984 with the release of Return of Godzilla (or Godzilla 1985).

It was this movie that returned Godzilla back to his dark and serious roots.

Also, the movie's time-line pretended that all the Godzilla movies after the original never happened (this is call an alternate reality.) On a side note, Raymond Burr stared in the American version of this movie (as did a number of Dr. Pepper product placements. :rolleyes:) Out of this movie came a new series that, while more serious than most of the Showa movies, still portrayed Godzilla as a sort of "Hero". In the Heisei, Godzilla would change sides often, such as the movie Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla, in which the military develops a giant robot to combat Godzilla. But in the end, Godzilla and the robot team up to fight SpaceGodzilla. The final installment of this series, Godzilla vs. Destoroyah, ends with Godzilla's death. This was a suitable ending, because Toho decided to stop making Godzila for good.

 

But, they would soon find a "disturbance in the Force", as many fans begged them to make more movies after the American movie "Godzilla" was released. Many fans hated this movie, not because of the movie itself, but because the creature in the movie was simply not Godzilla, fans even dubbed the monster G.I.N.O. or Godzilla In Name Only. Fortunately, Toho heard their call, and in 1999 they started a new series called the Millennium (or Shinsei) Series.

 

The Shinsei Series started with Godzilla 2000: Millennium. This again discounted all previous movies, including the original. This movie revamped Godzilla for the new Millennium by drastically changing his design (refer to the bottom of my post to see pictures of how Godzilla's design has changed), and bringing back his unstoppable force of nature character. This series kept Godzilla at a serious level for the most part, in one movie he is almost demonic. Something unique about this series is that most of its movies took place in alternate realities of their own. The last movie in this series, and the last movie to date, was Godzilla: Final Wars. It was made during Godzilla's 50th anniversary and involved over-the top fighting, a host of monsters, and a director that had previously only directed action movies. The result was a disappointing movie, at least to the fans. In this movie, Godzilla went back to savior status, saving the world from aliens and home-grown monsters. The addition of UFC fighter Don Frye just made the movie comical, and the high-paced martial art scenes (with both humans and monsters) makes it an overall fun movie to watch, but far from a masterpiece.

 

Here are some pics of Godzilla throughout the ages:

 

1954

1968

1984

1990

1999

2001

 

 

I'm sorry that I provided so much info for such a simple question. Thank you for your time.

 

-ds14 a.k.a Zillas a.k.a Ben-

[Michelle T]

of its leg holes the best. Can't remember what it was called, but it sure looked like a flying, flaming turtle.

 

Boy, my brother and I sure loved watching those Godzilla movies, flying, flaming turtle movies, and all the rest of those back in the day!

Michelle T

[GothicGyrl]

KarenCiavo's son and I were seperated at birth except for our age difference ;)

 

He is spot on ---Godzilla basically started as a force of nature through the Japanese eyes. If you watch the orginal Gojira (not the raymond burr version--yuck), Gojira (godzilla) is actually meant to represent all the powers that tried to oppress Japan at the time--through the Japanese eyes--including the US.

 

Incidentally, there are only a few actual monsters that belong in the Godzilla fame--all of the other monsters some think belong with him, actually don't.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla

 

I wouldn't call him amoral as much as I'd call him a superpower. He was just meant to represent some type of anger the japanese felt towards the US at the time.. that's why the Raymond Burr version stinks, because the Americans took the movie and butchered it to make it appear as though Godzilla *was* the bad guy as were the japanese. grrrr...

 

Here is another great site for listing the monsters, etc.. http://www.godzillatemple.com/index2.htm

 

I cannot remember the turtle's name, but he is not a Godzilla monster--he is an offshoot where Godzilla makes an appearance in the movie. And, did you know that Ultraman was once something that fought Godzilla? I don't remember his name (if he was ever named).. but from the Godzilla movie, was born Ultraman the tv series. ;)

[Mamagistra]

I cannot remember the turtle's name, but he is not a Godzilla monster--he is an offshoot where Godzilla makes an appearance in the movie.

 

GAMERA! GAMERA! ;)

[GothicGyrl]

GAMERA! GAMERA! ;)

Yeah, I remembered that after I posted.. lol. It is Gamera and he's not a Godzilla monster....;)

[Karenciavo]

If you watch the orginal Gojira (not the raymond burr version--yuck), Gojira (godzilla) is actually meant to represent all the powers that tried to oppress Japan at the time--through the Japanese eyes--including the US.

I disagree with that. The director of the movie, Ishiro Honda, detested nuclear war itself. After WWII, he came home to see Hiroshima completely decimated, and that left a big impact on him (it even inspired a scene in Gojira). I don't think he held any large grudge against the US. 'Course, I could be wrong.

 

 

And, did you know that Ultraman was once something that fought Godzilla? I don't remember his name (if he was ever named).. but from the Godzilla movie, was born Ultraman the tv series. ;)

Well, there are actually two monsters that fought along side with Godzilla that resemble Ultraman. One was Jet Jaguar, and the other was Zone Fighter. But, both of these came after Ultraman, so they could be considered "rip-offs". Funny fact, the first show in the Ultraman series, Ultra Q, did not have Ultraman in it. O.o

 

-ds14-

[GothicGyrl]

I disagree with that. The director of the movie, Ishiro Honda, detested nuclear war itself. After WWII, he came home to see Hiroshima completely decimated, and that left a big impact on him (it even inspired a scene in Gojira). I don't think he held any large grudge against the US. 'Course, I could be wrong.

 

while I agree about Honda, read the wiki and the second link I gave. It does state that Gojira was meant to be some sort of -----here, I'll just quote the wiki:

 

Godzilla is one of the most recognizable action/fictional symbols of Japanese popular culture worldwide and remains an important facet of Japanese films, embodying the kaiju subset of the tokusatsu genre. He has been considered a filmographic metaphor for the United States. The earlier Godzilla films, especially the original Godzilla, attempted to portray Godzilla as a frightening, nuclear monster. Godzilla was a representation of the fears that many Japanese held about the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the fear of those types of attacks occurring again

 

Basically, he represented US and this was Japan's way of showing how we caused them pain/harm. In later years, he became a good guy.

 

On to Ultraman--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman

 

They came out very close in time--Godzilla and Ultraman. And by the time the movie with Jet Jaguar(1973) was filmed, the original Ultraman was already out ;) See the Monsters section and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Jaguar

 

Sorry Karen.. Love me some Godzilla... ;)

[Karenciavo]

Sorry Karen.. Love me some Godzilla... ;)

 

Those were my son's posts. If I can get him away from Super Smash Bros Brawl I have him respond. :rolleyes:

[GothicGyrl]

Those were my son's posts. If I can get him away from Super Smash Bros Brawl I have him respond. :rolleyes:

Ahh well in that case--sorry son of Karen ;)

 

Godzilla was meant to represent the US and it's bombing of Hiroshima(big deal) and the other place (which I can't think of because I am supposed to be working right now) ;).. sad, but true. Japan was pretty mad at us for that and in fact, they kinda still are... :)

 

Oh and to answer battlemaiden's original question: Godzilla did in fact, start off as bad.. but this is where it gets derailed. When America saw how popular the movie was--Gojira--they remade it (actually only inserted scenes with Raymond Burr in it) to become more "americanized" and the whole point of Burr being there was to report it from an American point of view. The American Version--Godzilla--then became, for American filmmakers/goers, a "feel good, see it isn't too bad, we did try to fix it" movie.

 

BUT.. that's when Japan answered with MORE godzilla movies and more monsters. And, in return, they became MORE popular than the American Version with Burr. When Japan made more movies, they slowly moved away from "big bad US" to "the monster is conflicted" and on one hand, he did (repeatedly) destroy poor Japan, but there was always a reason--some "bad guy" was doing something to "waken" him and that ticked him off .. so it turned Godzilla into the good guy and the humans into the bad guy (because subsequent movies showed the humans doing bad things to the environment and Godzilla's rampages were in retaliation for that).