Donna Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 What did you think? A couple days ago at dd's violin lesson, her teacher gave me this book to read saying that I could have written the book or it would put into words things that have been on my mind lately. I have only read the first few chapters but was struck by the sequences of events/conditions that occurred in the lives of certain people in order for them to become reknown in their fields...how they were able to get in their "10,000 hours of practice." It got me thinking about the conditions/events in my dd's life that lead to her becoming who she is at this point in time...I won't go into it all but for a long time, I have felt that my dd was born into the wrong family and had been feeling inadequate to meet her needs in the area of music...we are not musicians. But when I look at all the events in her life and what we have been able to do for her, I can see that maybe we got the child we were supposed to have and she got the parents she was supposed to have, at least up to this point (who knows if we will continue to make the right choices or what will happen in her life). I was also struck by the chapters on child genius' and his theory that anyone with an IQ over (I think it was) 120 is smart enough to do most any job so that whether or not one becomes an "outlier" depends not on IQ but on other factors such as family upbringing, ability to interact with other people, opportunities in life, etc... Anyway, it has been an interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 There have been some very thorough discussions of this book over on the davidson's forum. I suggest you check them out. Very interesting... I haven't yet read the book as a whole, but I've read a LOT of PARTS of it quoted here and there. I've read a bunch of reviews. I don't think it's quite up my alley. I've heard it used as support for those who think there's no need for g&t programs in school and that anyone can be "gifted." I know success in life and giftedness are two different things, but I truly believe that some people pick things up more quickly than others and the 10K hours rule doesn't seem to be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet in Toronto Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 As a statistician, I found this book extremely compelling. Also as the grandaughter of Jewish tailors/furriers :). It explained a lot, for me personally, for my family, and about life in general. janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I really enjoyed this book. I thought the emphasis on hard work was very inspiring. I kept hearing my elementary school gifted teacher reminding us that IQ meant very little if we weren't going to put in some serious work:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I really enjoyed this book. I thought the emphasis on hard work was very inspiring. Jen, I agree that there is obviously an environmental component to success. This is like the old nature vs. nurture thing. Nurture is a BIGGY -- no doubt. I agree with Dr. Suzuki: "When love is deep, much can be accomplished." I don't think this necessarily means that what will be accomplished or the ability will be equal in every child, though. I get the feeling that Outliers implies that it's really ALL about the environmental factor. I think that omitting the truth that nature (inborn strengths and abilities) can be important implies that it is not of consequence. I think I really need to read this book. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I think the author states (or maybe I'm confusing with Talent is Overrated, which says the same things but is actually a better book) that a person won't be driven to put in his 10,000 hours if he doesn't have at least some inborn ability. The 10,000 hours is concentrated, purposeful practice, preferably monitored by a coach. Most people can't put in this level of work, either because of lack of time or money, or because it's just so *hard.* They might want to, and they might start out with the best of intentions, but they lose their focus along the way. That's why a supportive environment is so important. An environment that frees you from time, money, and other day-to-day worries, and that gives you plenty of love along the way, will enable you to go as far as you possibly can. The "possibly can" part is your inborn talent (and interest), your mental and physical endurance, and your ambition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I get the feeling that Outliers implies that it's really ALL about the environmental factor. :) Actually, I came away with the opposite impression -- that success was most likely when there was the perfect combination of intelligence and opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Actually, I came away with the opposite impression -- that success was most likely when there was the perfect combination of intelligence and opportunity This is what I am getting from the book. He does not discount intelligence at all. He just says that once a certain intelligence level is reached, other factors play more into who succeeds and who does not. I don't see at all where the book could be used to say there is no need for G&T programs. On the other hand, I could see where it could be used to say it is important for us to teach our extremely bright children such things as interpersonal skills, independence, self worth, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I got this from the library and my husband picked it up to read. I am hoping to get to it soon! It sounds great - food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 http://giftedexchange.blogspot.com/2008/11/10000-hours.html This was a topic on Laura Vanderkam's blog back in 2008. http://giftedexchange.blogspot.com/2009/02/is-genius-born-or-learned.html Here's a related topic, but don't skip the comments. There are some counterpoints made that are worth reading. Off to find this book at amazon - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 http://giftedexchange.blogspot.com/2008/11/10000-hours.htmlThis was a topic on Laura Vanderkam's blog back in 2008. http://giftedexchange.blogspot.com/2009/02/is-genius-born-or-learned.html Here's a related topic, but don't skip the comments. There are some counterpoints made that are worth reading. Off to find this book at amazon - Thank you so much for the links. I agree with the 1st comment after the second blog article. I know how many hours my dd puts into her violin/fiddling at least 2 hours every day of specific practice (often more) then many hours on her own playing or learning new songs or making up songs. I also know that she had the ability, drive, and desire to do this at a very young age (she was practicing about an hour by 4yo). She also is very bright and has a good memory so can hear a song once and know it which may contribute to her love of music and she puts her heart into her playing, making the songs she learns her own. Add to that the opportunities that have come her way either through someone hearing her play or hearing about her playing. The motivation to practice, IQ, and love of music lead to early ability which, in turn, lead to me finding her the best teacher I possibly could (I honestly don't think I would have felt it worth the money for this teacher if she had average ability initially...sure better teaching would make even an average player better than average teaching would but when resources are limited parents have to prioritize). So, there are many, many factors at work in her life that lead to her ability. That is why the book makes perfect sense to me and I can extrapolate it to other areas of my children's lives (besides just music). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I have not read "Outliers" but my husband has. The story of Bill Gates demonstrates how opportunity was critical for success in addition to his drive (10,000hrs), IQ and luck. In addition, Gladwell"s "Tipping Point" is also worth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Delphinium Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Unfortunately our family is facing the exact problem described in chapter one of the book. My son was born in the lastest part of the year. He has been involved competitively in a sport for years. His competitive class involves all kids born in a given year, but the next level training team only accepts kids born before June 1st. So, some of his competitors are being given a training advantage just because they were born in the first five months of the year. I didn't want to make waves with a team and coaching staff that we will need for the coming years but reading the book last week has made me realize that I need to fight for my son to be given an equal chance. Wish me luck. Delphinium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowperch Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'm only on the third chapter but I've always found Gladwell facile, glib, clever, etc. but a little light at the end of the day. And the 10,000 idea is an old thought of the baseball player Ted Williams who wrote about the Atlantic salmon as the "fish of 10,000 casts". His theory was that it took 10,000 casts to catch a keeper Atlantic salmon--ie, it takes years of focus, practice, commitment and effort to become a master. That said, I like reading clever writers so I'll read the rest of the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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