Memoria Press materials

[mo2]

How much religious content is in these? All of their courses are highly recommended and get great reviews, but can they be used successfully/easily by seculars?

[Orthodox6]

I have seen only their study materials for Haaren and Poland's "Famous Men" books for Greece and Rome. There is nothing religious at all to these materials; just straightforward history and geography.

[Stacey in MA]

I have their "Christian Studies Level I" program which is obviously not secular (:-))

 

We also use their Latin program, and though I'd say there's plenty of Christian content, you can either ignore it and still learn Latin. You may also include those few phrases and such, and choose to view it as a history study instead of religious material. You won't avoid it though - I'd say each lesson has at least a touch or CC. The songs and prayers that are supposed to be reviewed each lesson are complete CC.

 

I also own have a MP cursive copybook, and it's almost all Latin CC copywork.

 

GL! - Stacey in MA

[lionfamily1999]

Everything we've gotten from them would be considered CC. I've never used their Famous Men books, though and they probably are straight forward history. The Latin lessons in Prima Latina all include prayers and from what I've seen of Latina Christiana that does too. The copywork we bought was all scripture.

 

They are great, but if you're not looking for Christian content, I would say it's a no-go.

[plimsoll]

Even though our approach is secular, I really like a lot of the materials from Memoria Press.

 

Their study guides for the "Famous Men of..." series are not religious.

 

The Christian Studies books can be used for a secular study of the Bible. Much of it is reading comprehension, vocabulary, mapwork, and history. In my opinion, a lot can be learned about Judaism, Christianity, and history by using these materials, even if you are not religious.

 

As I understand it, their Latin materials have a lot of religious content - we are using Lively Latin instead.

 

We also are using their Roots of English word roots book - this is secular.

[mo2]

What about their logic and rhetoric courses?

[OnTheBrink]

IIRC, their Traditional Logic is not religious. My son took the course 5 years ago and I don't recall religious content. The Latin did and I found myself on more days telling him, "You don't have to agree with it, you just have to translate it!"

 

Anyway, fwiw, I liked their logic materials. We ran out of time and didn't do Material Logic, but I plan to use that with dd in a few years.

[TracyR]

I must be missing something. I don't feel their Latin program is very 'religious' at all. You could absolutely skip the prayers in the program without it harming the rest of their learning. Other then that from what we have done is mostly secular in nature. Even with the DVD program you could easily stop the lesson before they review the prayers at the end and do just fine.

Other then that I don't see anything really 'religious' to the LC series. There aren't any relgious lessons in the program. So I'm curious as to why do others feel this is a 'relgious' program other then the fact they include church prayers that you can easily take out and make the program completely secular?

[KarenNC]

The author of the French materials (danielle on the boards) recently replied to a question of mine about this with the First Start French. She said that other than three prayers at the end, which aren't included in the lessons, and some references to religion in the cultural content sections (things like Joan of Arc, Notre Dame cathedral, etc) that it was not Christian-focused. It's format is modeled after Latina Christiana.

[KarenNC]

I must be missing something. I don't feel their Latin program is very 'religious' at all. You could absolutely skip the prayers in the program without it harming the rest of their learning. Other then that from what we have done is mostly secular in nature. Even with the DVD program you could easily stop the lesson before they review the prayers at the end and do just fine.

Other then that I don't see anything really 'religious' to the LC series. There aren't any relgious lessons in the program. So I'm curious as to why do others feel this is a 'relgious' program other then the fact they include church prayers that you can easily take out and make the program completely secular?

 

Well, if someone labels their material "Introduction to Christian Latin", one is likely to make the assumption that it is Christian-focused in content.;)

 

I've only looked specifically and physically at Prima Latina, and remember thinking at the time that there seemed a lot of Christian-specific material included as part of the instruction, rather than just as extras or cultural content. Bear in mind also that what sticks out as "Christian content" to someone who is part of the Christian community and what sticks out as such to someone who is not (and may be actively involved in a quite different faith community) can vary a *lot*. I don't know in which group you would fall, but that has been my experience when I look at something and it feels very Christian-focused while someone else doesn't see it as such at all.

Edited July 14, 2009 by KarenNC

[cajun.classical]

Well, if someone labels their material "Introduction to Christian Latin", one is likely to make the assumption that it is Christian-focused in content.;)

 

Hmm.. I thought that was a reference to the pronunciation. LC uses Christian or Ecclesiastical Latin.

[KarenNC]

Hmm.. I thought that was a reference to the pronunciation. LC uses Christian or Ecclesiastical Latin.

 

Based on their own descriptions it goes beyond simple pronunciation. I am not trying to argue whether it "should" be Christian in focus or not---there is definitely a place for both Christian-focused and non-Christian-focused materials. I just think that when the company that produces it goes to great lengths to make it clear that they *intend* it to be Christian-focused, one should believe them. If an Arabic course included the same amount of material from the Koran and Islamic teaching, I don't think there'd be a question of whether or not it was intended to be "Islamic" in focus.;)

 

Their website describes it as having "both Christian and classical content".

http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/Latina1.html

 

For Latina Christiana II:

"Latina Christiana II contains five short "readings," three Scripture passages for translation, passages for memorization, including the Gloria, the Sanctus, and the Doxology, two hymns, Veni, Veni Emmanuel and Veni Creator Spiritus..."

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/whylatin.html

"Although the basic grammar and vocabulary of Christian Latin are the same as the classical, Christian Latin authors emphasized the transmission of Christian truth, striving for clarity and simplicity above all else. Because Christian Latin is easier to read, it is the perfect gateway to the more difficult classical Latin of Caesar, Cicero, and Virgil...Memoria Press’ Prima Latina and Latina Christiana programs are Christian Latin courses designed to introduce your child to the rich heritage of the Christian tradition ..."

 

Their endorsements on their website include statements about Latina Christiana I like: http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/Latina1.html#articles

"The focus is on the use of Latin by the Christian Church as opposed to a classical focus. For example, in Level 1, the Lord's prayer, a table prayer, and two hymns are learned in Latin."

"Although many of the sayings are Christian in orientation, the program is certainly usable by parents who are of other faiths" (now for this I would have to say it would depend on the other faith and the family involved, and that usually I don't find someone who is immersed in the Christian community to be the most objective judge of this;)).

[TracyR]

Well, if someone labels their material "Introduction to Christian Latin", one is likely to make the assumption that it is Christian-focused in content.;)

 

Christian Latin or what is called Church Latin is the Ecclesiastical pronounciation of Latin rather then Classical. It can be distinguished by some lexical variations,a simplified syntax in some cases, and , commonly , an Italianate pronunciation. According to Wikipedia . Christian Latin is the works of Christian or Ecclesiastical writers of ancient times.

Bascially the Latina Christiana series does not teach Classical Latin pronunciation.

 

I've only looked specifically and physically at Prima Latina, and remember thinking at the time that there seemed a lot of Christian-specific material included as part of the instruction, rather than just as extras or cultural content. Bear in mind also that what sticks out as "Christian content" to someone who is part of the Christian community and what sticks out as such to someone who is not (and may be actively involved in a quite different faith community) can vary a *lot*.

 

I'll agree that PL has a bit more concentration with Christian prayer. But again all you need to do is take a marker and X it out, skip it , or use it as a learning experience because there was a time in history when people used this pronunciation. By skipping those things in the book ( which really aren't very many) you can still use the LC series and get a lot out of it since there is a lot to it.

 

 

I don't know in which group you would fall, but that has been my experience when I look at something and it feels very Christian-focused while someone else doesn't see it as such at all.

 

I really don't belong to any one group. I do believe in God. We don't belong to any one denomination, so therefore we don't attend church. I have used some Christian curriculum but only if it works for my children. I have used some BJU (which is baptist), Apologia for sciene and CLE (Mennonite). But the vast majority of our curriculum is secular.

To compare LC to any Christian program is like comparing apples and oranges. I could easily take out a few problems from LC then I ever could with programs like BJU and the like. Again the Latina Christiana program is the least Christian program I've ever used.

[KarenNC]

]To compare LC to any Christian program is like comparing apples and oranges. I could easily take out a few problems from LC then I ever could with programs like BJU and the like. Again the Latina Christiana program is the least Christian program I've ever used.

 

I do not argue that it may well be the least Christian program you've ever used. What you describe simply means that it is a more easily "secularizable" (if that's a word:)) Christian-focused program, not that it *isn't* designed as a Christian-focused program (and is rightfully advertised as such). If you have to take things out of it to make it secular, it is *not* secular in the original. That you have to take 5 things out of LC to secularize it where you would have to take 500 out of BJU doesn't change anything but degree.

 

The same is true with something like Minimus (which *is* a secular Latin program for children). You can *add* material to it to make it Christian-focused, but it is not designed as such and would not be described as such as it stands in the original. Five in a Row is another example of a program (though not a Latin one) that is secular, but can be adapted to be Christian-focused with the addition of material provided in a separately available Bible supplement. The Christian-focused material is not interwoven into the program and would not have to have a marker taken to it or material skipped to make it usable as a secular program.

 

I have no beef with anyone who wants to use LC either as a Christian-focused or a secularlized program. Accuracy in advertising, however, is very important. Personally, I am grateful when publishers accurately describe their products so that I can determine if the amount of adaptation (if any) required to make it suit my family is worth it to me or not. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

[mo2]

I agree; their latin programs are definitely Christian. When I posted the question, I was really wondering about the Famous Men study guides and their logic courses. My Famous Men question was answered here, and according to Cathy Duffy, the logic courses definitely have a Christian slant.

[danielle]

Honest, First Start French at least is not Christian (or non-Christian) for that matter. It just doesn't really get into the topic. But please keep in mind that all Memoria materials have a 30 day money back guarantee and not only do they honor it, but they pass on any comments to the author. Don't hesitate to take advantage of it.

Danielle