Annie G Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Dd took her placement test today at the community college. Aced the English/writing portion but flopped the math portion. We totally expected that...she speaks several languages and writes quite well but has never really learned to coexist with numbers. She has taken Jacob's algebra and geometry and muddled through Chalkdust Algebra 2...but all she's ever done with math is do well enough to get by. So...our plan for the upcoming year is to remediate math at home and get her ready to take a math course in college next year. She's planning to major in German and minor in something like history so she doesn't need a lot of math. She's really a good student but just doesn't do well retaining math. Any suggestions on how to go about doing this? She's been working on SAT/ACT prep but that's not working out for her. Her last SAT practice predicted about a 430 on the math portion. The test she's trying to pass is the Compass test. Truly, she just wants to pass the test and take her one required math course and move on. We refuse to let her take remedial math at the college - no explanation needed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Please excuse that I'm confused by the end of your post. Guess I don't understand the reluctance to take remedial math at the community college. One of our sons had to take one semester of "developmental math" before commencing the regular college math. It's not a big deal, no stigma, and doesn't transfer anyway. The alternative for us would have been to hold back our son from entering college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) At our community college, the remedial math is a computer lab and is 'self paced'. Dh has taught at this college and some of his students spent 5 semesters in this remedial lab. I don't think this particular kid would make decent progress without a teacher to help/push her. Since they'll let her take everything but math and some science classes, she doesn't have to pass the test before she starts her dual enrollment. Edited June 11, 2009 by Annie G clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Her situation sounds like one where you might use the free month trial of Aleks to pinpoint her weak areas and then work on those either with Aleks or with another program. http://www.aleks.com/webform/c12 Another option might be to use something like Chalkdust's SAT math review, which gives a general review of all the math needed for the SAT. Using something like this might help her prep for the SAT as well as fill in any holes she has. Just a couple thoughts-- Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I don't think SAT math review would be good for this..... it is just for testing, I watched some, and it wasn't quite like a review would be, others can weigh in though. I have a friend that is more artsy, and she did remedial math at college, and the teacher was exactly what she needed, and she did fine with math after that. You definitely want your daughter to be able to take the lowest levels of math she can so she doesn't get into the hard stuff since math isn't her thing! If it isn't too expensive, maybe she can do the remedial math at college this summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Now I am confused, is this for SAT test? Then the SAT review dvds are very good. My son did Chalkdust Algebra 2, it was hard, and he got lost in it. I called the credit "intermediate algebra" and redid Algebra 2 the next year. Teaching Textbooks is an easier Algebra 2, if you have more high school to do, that might work. (We did BJU Algebra 2 and really liked it, but it is expensive to rent the dvds). My son got his best math SAT score right after BJU Algebra 2 (then the score went way down the next year....). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Her situation sounds like one where you might use the free month trial of Aleks to pinpoint her weak areas and then work on those either with Aleks or with another program. http://www.aleks.com/webform/c12 Another option might be to use something like Chalkdust's SAT math review, which gives a general review of all the math needed for the SAT. Using something like this might help her prep for the SAT as well as fill in any holes she has. Just a couple thoughts-- Brenda The month of Aleks to pinpoint her issues is an excellent idea! She tried the Chalkdust SAT review last year. The video lessons would have been excellent except she needed a workbook of practice problems to tackle after lessons. She watched and worked along with the SAT review but it didn't really help her much. But thanks for the Aleks idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Now, let me clarify. Dd is just going to be a senior this year and is taking a few classes at the community college. I have her at home for a whole year, which is why I am trying to figure out a plan...she has a year to work on this before she heads off to college. I know it seems like perhaps I'm not the best math teacher for her (since I've been teaching her and she bombed the test), so I'm open to other options. If after a year of really trying to bring her to speed she isn't able to pass the test, she can certainly take remedial math in college...but she and I both want to give it a try before we go the computer lab route. It's not about a stigma...it's much more about the fact this class has no teacher. She'll take the SAT in the fall, but since she's majoring in German, I suspect her verbal and essay scores will be looked at more than her math scores. Our oldest was totally the opposite...her math scores were sky high but verbal scores were in the gutter. She earned full scholarships for both undergrad and grad school. I just want to make the most out of this last year I have with her, and I'm not convinced this particular community college's approach is our best choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) Dd took her placement test today at the community college. ... The test she's trying to pass is the Compass test. Truly, she just wants to pass the test and take her one required math course and move on. What is the one required math course that she needs to take? Is it a 100 level course? (i.e., College Algebra?) If we know what level she is trying to test into, we might be able to offer more specific suggestions. Our local community college posts free review sheets on line that cover what a student should be familiar with in order to test out of a class. Perhaps your college might have something similar. She could review those at home to see where her weaknesses are. Regards, Kareni Edited June 12, 2009 by Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I agree w/advice to pinpoint weak points first. I'd also mention that you'd want to work on the topics from the lowest-level course first -- if she places into int. algebra it's only one wasted semester before college-level math, but if she places into an arithmetic course it could be 3-4 semesters of remedial math, which is Not Fun. Edited: It'll probably also make it easier to learn that way :p But yeah, make sure arithmetic is solid first ... a friend of mine got placed 4 semesters before college algebra almost solely because his arithmetic stank and that's where the test dropped him. Especially check fractions. 5/4 people have problems with fractions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 kareni- yes, college algebra is the level class she'd need to take. She could actually take quantitative reasoning but her college of choice requires students to be listed as sophomores before taking it and it's designed for education majors and artsy folks (and dd is an artsy kid). She's thinking that if they don't allow her to take it as a freshman that it's just one more year for her math skills to get rusty. kiana- excellent point to remind me to make sure arithmetic skills are sharp. When she does SAT practice tests, she often misses the easy test questions but gets many medium q's and some difficult q's correct. It's always confused me how she does that! Since the college knew she wasn't planning to take any math classes, they didn't discuss math placement with her other than to say she needed 'some remediation'. Maybe we'll go back today for a more detailed explanation. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions...dh and I spent quite a while talking about them last night and they were helpful. It was especially helpful for me because dh is an engineer and he just 'gets' math and doesn't always understand that everyone's not wired like he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamom Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Can you take the placement test at http://www.mindsprinting.com and see if you can figure out where her weaknesses are? It is free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Thank you for sharing more details. I didn't know, for example, that your dd still has more high school to complete ! If you want her to "place out" of the cc math, you could buy, from any local bookstore, a copy of the closest exam prep book. The CC here administers its own test, but it is very close to the national exam prep book for community college math and English. My boys worked their way through one of those books in order to test well. Your dd has this summer available to do the same thing. That would provide her with the specific topics expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 I hope the college can provide a clue about where we need to start, based on the placement test. If not, the mindsprinting or aleks site will be helpful. Here's where I think we went wrong: the girl did algebra in 8th grade, geometry in 9th, and algebra 2 in 10th. This past year she tried to do trig but hit a wall in chapter 3. So she switched to doing SAT/ACT math prep, which seemed to focus more on test taking strategies rather than math review. The math review in Chalkdust's SAT course was just hours of lecture/demo and she zoned out unless I stayed on her. So she really didn't do much math this year. I realize much of this is my fault...she needed to be doing something more structured this year to keep her skills up. Of our 4 kids, she's the only one with math difficulties and I didn't realize that she needed constant review to keep from losing what she's learned. I wish we had waited to do algebra in 9th grade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 One of the other things to consider -- if she needs a course which has intermediate algebra as a prereq (such as college algebra) she doesn't just need test prep. She needs to *know* intermediate algebra so that she can pass the subsequent course. Don't focus solely on test prep -- if you prep well, she scores well, but doesn't really know it, she may very well not pass the math course her first try and have to retake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Have you looked at Life of Fred? This series might appeal to your language centered child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 One of the other things to consider -- if she needs a course which has intermediate algebra as a prereq (such as college algebra) she doesn't just need test prep. She needs to *know* intermediate algebra so that she can pass the subsequent course. Don't focus solely on test prep -- if you prep well, she scores well, but doesn't really know it, she may very well not pass the math course her first try and have to retake. Exactly...which is why I want to identify her weaknesses and spend this whole year remediating. Worst case scenario is that she still has to take a remedial class in a year, when she's a freshman in college. I know math isn't her thing, but we're talking some pretty basic stuff that she's already demonstrated she can do. So would you recommend we go back through both algebra 1 and 2 and do it all over? Using the block system, we could do that in a school year. Tough, but it's not brand new material so we could do it. And if so, would you recommend the same materials (Jacobs for alg and Chalkdust for alg 2) or different ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Have you looked at Life of Fred? This series might appeal to your language centered child. I've never looked at that. Jacobs was recommended for a language loving kid and she seemed to like it better after using Saxon for her early math years. I'll go check it out! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Exactly...which is why I want to identify her weaknesses and spend this whole year remediating. Worst case scenario is that she still has to take a remedial class in a year, when she's a freshman in college. I know math isn't her thing, but we're talking some pretty basic stuff that she's already demonstrated she can do. So would you recommend we go back through both algebra 1 and 2 and do it all over? Using the block system, we could do that in a school year. Tough, but it's not brand new material so we could do it. And if so, would you recommend the same materials (Jacobs for alg and Chalkdust for alg 2) or different ones? Why not try Fred? The author thinks Beginning and Intermediate Algebra can be done in a year, it's clever, it's language-oriented, and it doesn't have excessive practice, which is probably a good thing since she'll be repeating. I've successfully used Fred to tutor an entering college freshman who scored badly due to the same reasons (lack of recent work, he'd been out of math for 3 yrs due to a gap year) -- his first placement test placed him in basic arithmetic, a month later after fractions and decimals he retook the test, got into algebra 1 (2 courses up) and made an A. I love Fred :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 I just looked at Life of Fred. It might be just what she needs! I especially appreciate those who recommended it...looking at it without the recommendations might have made me poo-poo it as just a silly book. I'm really thankful for all the advice - I dropped our homeschool group because there just wasn't parent support for real academics. My real support is here! So once I figure out where to start with LoF, I think we have at least a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 So once I figure out where to start with LoF, I think we have at least a starting point.I'd recommend starting with Beginning Algebra, with the Home Companion, to get the feel of Fred before moving on to Advanced Algebra. The books are relatively inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharonTennessee Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Here's what we're doing. My daughter sounds a lot like yours, excelling in languages and struggling in math. She'll finish Algebra II in 11th grade, then in senior year she'll do AP Statistics with PA Homeschoolers. It will provide the needed math credit, but I've been told that it's a good choice for nonmathy students. I'm sure it will still be hard, but not as hard as College Algebra. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 I'd recommend starting with Beginning Algebra, with the Home Companion, to get the feel of Fred before moving on to Advanced Algebra. The books are relatively inexpensive. Thanks...the books are ordered and we'll start with that. We have a nearly three week delay, as we need to go visit our new granddaughter and spend some time in Atlanta and Savannah. The vacation will be nice and the books will be waiting when we return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sharon, That sounds like a good choice for your daughter and probably a route we should have taken. When dd finished algebra 2 in 10th grade, we should have anticipated that she'd forget a good bit. It all started when trig was a crash and burn this year...statistics might have been a good option for her, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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