I need ideas on fostering math independence.

[LG Gone Wild]

This is for my ADHD-like ds8 (almost 9). If he were ever to take a math test, he would fail on the spot. He could do a spelling test but not math.

 

If I am staring at him and make him say the steps to his multiplication problems, he is okay. If not, well, it is not a pretty sight. He would just stare at the problem and literally, hours could go by with a single problem being done.

 

What I can do to move him along? I can't stare at him forever. Plus, I want him to be more timely and do it correctly. The problems aren't difficult but I think he is so resistant because he finds them tedious. For that reason, I don't give alot but what I do give he does wrong because of careless errors.

 

He can do other work independently and even willingly, just not math.:confused:

[Alana in Canada]

Does he really understand what he is doing?

 

If you hadn't said he was capable of working on his own in other areas, I would think it a maturity issue.

 

Maybe you need to go back a few steps and re-introduce manipulatives?

We went for a long period where working with the manipulatives could make me scream, it took so long and I would have to re-focus his attention. Fortunately I see signs he is growing out of it!

[EKS]

My son is now approaching 12 (yikes!) and we had the problems you described for years. In fact, to some extent we still have them.

 

First, for us, I needed to have making him work independently a priority. Otherwise, I would just get so frustrated that I would end up helping him, either by redirecting his attention or by helping him with hints about how to approach the problems. Usually both. The thing that really got me inspired to have him be more independent (aside from my general panic that he would be in college still needing my help!) was that my younger son started homeschooling with us this year and I needed to pay attention to him too.

 

At the beginning of the year I decided exactly what I though he should be doing independently--math problem sets, grammar exercises, Latin translations, and writing. I ended up having to lower the level of the math he was doing for a few months to facilitate this.

 

I also made two rules. He has to have his work done before he is allowed to do anything else during the day (except eat lunch and attend outside classes). And he has to finish his independent work in the amount of time I specify (I am generous, though he doesn't think so!) if he wants to be allowed to play games on the computer on the weekend.

 

So I guess I did four things:

 

1. I was more motivated than before to have him work independently because my younger son needed my attention

 

2. I made sure he could easily do the work I was asking him to do, in the case of math by stepping down a level for a while.

 

3. I made the rule that he must get his work done before enjoying other activities.

 

4. I offered incentives for getting the work done in a timely manner.

 

It is still hit or miss. He is able to work independently in that he can actually do the work now without me sitting next to him but he still takes far too long. He only finishes within the time frame I set about half the time (and it really is generous, I know he is just spacing out). In fact, he just as I was writing this missed the deadline for today's work. He just found out and now he is crying.

 

Welcome to my world.

[LG Gone Wild]

Does he really understand what he is doing?

 

If you hadn't said he was capable of working on his own in other areas, I would think it a maturity issue.

 

Maybe you need to go back a few steps and re-introduce manipulatives?

We went for a long period where working with the manipulatives could make me scream, it took so long and I would have to re-focus his attention. Fortunately I see signs he is growing out of it!

 

He do certain assignments without me at all. This math thing is has been such a hurdle.

[LisaNY]

This is for my ADHD-like ds8 (almost 9). If he were ever to take a math test, he would fail on the spot. He could do a spelling test but not math.

 

If I am staring at him and make him say the steps to his multiplication problems, he is okay. If not, well, it is not a pretty sight. He would just stare at the problem and literally, hours could go by with a single problem being done.

 

What I can do to move him along? I can't stare at him forever. Plus, I want him to be more timely and do it correctly. The problems aren't difficult but I think he is so resistant because he finds them tedious. For that reason, I don't give alot but what I do give he does wrong because of careless errors.

 

He can do other work independently and even willingly, just not math.:confused:

 

Okay, I have to ask - why is it so important to get your son into independent work with math? He is still very young. I have a 13yo. dd and I STILL sit w/her and go through the math lesson and a few of the problems before letting her work on her own. I think it is SO important to work alongside your dc when it comes to math. I tried to do the same thing w/my two dd's when they were young. I would teach them the lesson, and then send them off on their own to do their math. What I found out the hard way was that they would make mistakes and errors in thinking that would perpetuate and form bad habits, which I wouldn't always catch right away. Even though I corrected their work, I would not always know the errors in their thinking. I am sure a math-smart mom would have an easier time ascertaining and correcting errors in thinking, but I am not, so I need to sit w/my dd. Perhaps you are a math-smart mom and can figure things out like that.

 

You said that your ds works independently at other subjects, so why can't you just relax a bit, and give your ds more time with the math? He just might need you there to guide him right now.

[LG Gone Wild]

Okay, I have to ask - why is it so important to get your son into independent work with math? He is still very young. I have a 13yo. dd and I STILL sit w/her and go through the math lesson and a few of the problems before letting her work on her own. I think it is SO important to work alongside your dc when it comes to math. I tried to do the same thing w/my two dd's when they were young. I would teach them the lesson, and then send them off on their own to do their math. What I found out the hard way was that they would make mistakes and errors in thinking that would perpetuate and form bad habits, which I wouldn't always catch right away. Even though I corrected their work, I would not always know the errors in their thinking. I am sure a math-smart mom would have an easier time ascertaining and correcting errors in thinking, but I am not, so I need to sit w/my dd. Perhaps you are a math-smart mom and can figure things out like that.

 

You said that your ds works independently at other subjects, so why can't you just relax a bit, and give your ds more time with the math? He just might need you there to guide him right now.

 

But he isn't progressing in this area. He knows the math. I go over it with him (not just teach the lesson and walk away) before attempting to have him do problems on his own. What I am looking for is not away to get out of sitting with him but to gradually move away from me having to hold his hand the whole time even though he knows the material.

 

He is in 3rd grade now and I want him to be able to get through a test, if he has to.

[Rhondabee]

I don't know how your math is set up. But, if you have "sets" of problems that go together, you could start by doing all but one problem of each set together, then have him finish the page on his own (either then, or later - I like later because then my ds can start "fresh" rather than bored).

 

Gradually increase the number of "undone" problems until you are confident that you've reached that magic balance of knowing that he is getting the support he needs to learn, but is capable of working independently toward complete mastery.

 

This is similar to what I've done with Grammar.

 

(Oh, I also usually do the writing for the first one or two of each set, then let him do the rest of the writing while we work together.)

 

hth,

Rhonda

[LisaNY]

But he isn't progressing in this area. He knows the math. I go over it with him (not just teach the lesson and walk away) before attempting to have him do problems on his own. What I am looking for is not away to get out of sitting with him but to gradually move away from me having to hold his hand the whole time even though he knows the material.

 

He is in 3rd grade now and I want him to be able to get through a test, if he has to.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought your goal was to walk away from your ds. :) I was just thinking that since he is showing independence in other areas, maybe he just needs more time with you on math. Now, if it's a simple matter of dawdling, then that's another issue altogether.

 

My main point was that sometimes, we need to spend more one-on-one time with our dc on certain subjects, but it doesn't last forever. Eventually, they do move on to more independent study.

[EKS]

Just jumping in here--

 

I interpreted "independent" with regard to math as being able to do the problem sets independently, not the whole lesson alone. I think this is a critical skill.

 

I know with my son, when I was sitting with him, there were several things he was *not* learning. He was not learning how to focus his attention himself. He was not learning how to work things out for himself without "hints." Now that I am insisting that he do the problem sets on his own, after a rocky start, he is actually a far more confident math student. Still slow, but confident!

[oakmom]

I try to get them doing more work on their own as it seems to get them on a positive cycle. As they learn to do the work on their own they gain confidence and are more willing to try more on their own. First I make sure they understand the concept by helping them through a few problems, then I watch them solve a few problems on their own. Then I stay nearby, but busy with my own task (making lunch or something) so that I am available for questions but the child knows that he has to try to do the work on his own.

[LG Gone Wild]

I try to get them doing more work on their own as it seems to get them on a positive cycle. As they learn to do the work on their own they gain confidence and are more willing to try more on their own. First I make sure they understand the concept by helping them through a few problems, then I watch them solve a few problems on their own. Then I stay nearby, but busy with my own task (making lunch or something) so that I am available for questions but the child knows that he has to try to do the work on his own.

 

We do fine until I get busy with my own thing and then he grinds to a halt. I don't know how to help him move out of this stage.

[Penny]

For my ds, if he needs help, this means he needs more practice. Asking for help is asking for more work!

 

Also, I offer incentives for ATTITUDE. Sometimes this is a chip for every two or three problems. If the work is new, a chip per problem. The reward should be immediate however. Delayed rewards many times don't work. Make sure the reward is meaningful to him. (Example, a hug is probably not a meaningful reward and hugs should never be limited anyway!)

 

Reward the attitude, not the performance. If he makes a mistake while really trying, then he does need more help. Reward him again if he accepts the mistake and corrects the problem with a good attitude! (Note, I used to use a penny board to stretch out rewards for every subject. Now I only NEED rewards for Math. I use them for Latin to foster a more positive experience.)

 

If my son bursts out crying (he is almost 11!) during math problems, and I find that he really does know how to do it, then he goes to his room until the assignment is finished, no rewards.

 

If he shows a bad attitude during one of the problems, I remove the rewards and set the timer. If he can work with a good attitude for 3 minutes, the reward comes back. If it continues to fuss, then he goes to his room.

 

Today, he could not stop crying. He went to his room. He was back up in about 30 minutes with the problems finished and happy to be moving on to Latin where he could once again earn rewards. His attitude was good for the rest of the day.

 

If your child makes you miserable with fussing and crying for the day, then consider making his evening miserable by taking away priviledges and even keeping him in his room. This was very difficult for me to implement, but if my son goes through one evening without desert, without a dinner that he likes, and stuck in his room for an hour or two, then the next day is a dream. (If I planned to have a dinner that he just loves, then I will change my dinner plans if he is fussy.) I used to just forget about his behaviour (or try to) in the evening and hope for the best the next day. It simply didn't work and he continued to rule the house with his terrible fussing about school.

 

OK, maybe my son has been more difficult than yours?

[Laura K (NC)]

The professional that I used for this issue suggested that I copy the page he was working on and actually cut it into pieces with only a few problems on each piece, or to rewrite his problems on a page just a few at a time. My son can do two problems, but a whole page was just beyond him. His mind couldn't wrap itself around that much work at the same time so he would give up. Like you I wasn't able to sit with him the whole time and do math with him once I have gone through the lesson and taught him the concepts. It didn't help anyway when I did!

 

I also was advised to keep his desk or table completely clear of distractions. That is difficult for me, but it does help somewhat.