Seriously about the chocolate! I went through an entire bar the other day instead of my usual ration of one piece... One thing I was pondering as I read through this conversation is that sometimes you will make gains that you didn't expect, even with a lower priority piece. My top priority with my daughter with dyslexia is reading. Math is a lesser priority. So we spend our time on each very differently. And yet she's starting to make some surprising gains in math, even with it lower down my priority list. I am such a free-spirit that adding in all these routines really push me...(and cause me to eat more chocolate...) but my husband helps me to tweak things and sometimes as I look at things that aren't working but that I want to have as a higher priority without losing other high priority things, I just work a little harder to figure out a way to intertwine them, so that I'm meeting goals across a wider spectrum with the same 30-60 minute chunk of time, similar to what PeterPan mentioned upthread. When it works, it's magical. When it doesn't, I split some wood, clear my head, and try again.

nah, two different providers. The genetics bit, they honestly told me was a couple hundred dollars, so that's interesting info that I can look into now... and I am not doing the methyl vit. anymore for him because it's not worth time/$ to do something without results. The OT is recommending the iLs, and that isn't expensive for us because they aren't making us buy it. Just using it as an at home part to complement what they are doing in the office.

Our provider recommended it due to high anxiety levels. A lot of the behaviors we see are related to the anxiety and each piece of that puzzle that we get put together has shown bits of improvement in behavior/compliance. Really, the only thing that I'm not convinced has helped is the methyl-folate that the Dr. recommended but we didn't do the genetic testing (insurance wouldn't pay) to verify that it was necessary, so there's that. (Although the methylated B vitamins are basically a miracle vitamin for me which is why we tried it for him.)

I just finished her book and am currently outlining ideas from her stuff to go with a unit on the human body that we'll do for science, pairing learning about the various body parts/systems with the interoceptive ideas from the book and anything else I can think of to add in as well. My goal is to make it flexible to pull out each topic as I need to in order to match/complement what they are working on at OT for any given week. I honestly was wondering how much more benefit the curriculum would be for the extra cost, since it seems so simple to implement as it is.

Our OT is going to do some interoceptive work starting in January based on Mahler's research, along with some other specific goals, and we are going to do the Focus Program as well. Now, we are not having to purchase it, and we haven't started yet, but aside from gas money we'll literally spend $50 a month on therapy so agreeing to the Focus program for that is not a difficult decision for us (and my husband is really interested in it based on some brain research reading he's done for work). This week we are completing the Safe and Sound Protocol from iLs (talk about a pain to implement with 4 kids at home!) and I would have said yesterday that there is not much change, except that I've noticed 2 new things in the last 12 hours that have me seriously scratching my head and doing a happy dance. Last night he was able to tell me exactly what it was going on in his head "when I close my eyes I see this in my head" and he described it really well, and said "and it makes me scared, so I am too afraid to be in my bed right now". He was able to tell me exactly what scared him using great visualization (I'll take credit for teaching him how to use visualization strategies from the Visualization and Verbalization program, but then he told me that it made him scared! Call me crazy but that in itself is HUGE for him. Even my husband looked at me and said, "that was amazing!" and this morning he was able to ask for help twice, properly, unprompted and before he got frustrated. Usually he just gets frustrated and doesn't think to ask for help before he gets to the point of exploding and throwing whatever it is in my lap and demanding I do it. He also, now that I think about it, watched the nutcracker ballet yesterday afternoon and I watched him closely as he looked very concerned with the king rat fight scene, but after it was over he climbed on my lap for some closeness, and when I asked him it he was afraid of the rats, he took a deep breath, and said "it's over now." got down, and went back to his seat to watch. So we've changed nothing but the iLs safe and sound protocol. It might be small things and it might be antidotal, but I feel like I'm seeing positive movement. Would I purchase it if I had to? Not sure, but for our situation, it is cost effective so we're doing it.

Dark chocolate or milk chocolate? That would make a huge difference for me!

I don't think we're "ahead" so much as I took the program apart. I really went through the entire program to get the gestalt of what they want to teach and how, and what their goals are at each step. Then I kind of took it all apart and am applying the pieces in a different order. He's great some parts, and oddly enough, even with his extreme anxiety issues, has developed quite the ability to work a room of people he knows, saying hi to people and if he has a stuffed pet with him, he'll introduce his pet. One Sunday morning he literally had the same exact conversation with a dozen people. And as I think through that - I'm realizing that the success there is with a concrete conversation topic - there was no abstract concept thought necessary. He can discuss the pet that he was holding, practice those lines across a variety of people. Holding something to discuss also takes the pressure off of facial expressions/eye contact. Now my wheels are spinning to see how I can figure out how to apply other concepts from CMC with a more concrete practice opportunity... The application of social thinking 1 was centered more around the other boy in the group who was more the "I'm going to talk about my stuff and be in my own world and cause all the unexpected things to happen" rather than on my kid who was the "I'm going to be silent and terrified because those other kids are so unpredictable!". So there was a LOT of conversation and lesson time around the idea of following the group plan and the unspoken rules so that others aren't uncomfortable. But never touched the issue of how the other kids feel when that unexpected thing happens. When I asked about strategies for the kid who is anxious because of kids who don't follow the group plan, it upset the other kid's mom who was like, my kid is always going to be in trouble!!!!! And I'm sitting there going yeah, your son needs to learn to follow the group plan, but my son is terrified of your kid, hardly even speaks up in the group of TWO kids because your son dominates it and the OT can't figure out how to control the interaction. *sigh* the language was great. I still use some of it. But like I said, the application was not well done.

We did we thinkers 1 with the last OT and I found it good in some areas and poorly implemented in others. But, it was the OT that I didn't like for her lack of intentionality too, so that could have colored my opinion of the curriculum itself. So I'll look at we thinkers 2 🙂

interesting thought, I'll have to look into that more. btw, my husband loves you guys because of what you've influenced me to do to our budget!!! 😜

yes. Mindfulness has been a huge piece of the puzzle for me. And the other word that encapsulates a big part of the shift has been intentionality. I'm learning to recognize when I feel overwhelmed/overstimulated and take specific steps that I know will intentionally improve things. Yesterday after a tough school session with my daughter it was intentionally pickup up a fiction book for a half hour, straightening my bedroom, and running on the treadmill. Within about 2 hours I was able to feel centered again, and ready to face the next challenge of the day - dinner with my in-laws. 😂 The research on play therapy that I've done has been a huge game-changer in my intentionality in speaking with my children, especially my son. I think the idea that I'm playing with is that anyone can do things half-well by not focusing on the important pieces, but an intentional effort makes a huge difference. (This is the difference between OTs that we've used - the last OT was not intentional - she didn't listen to my goals or thoughts about what we needed and she would grab something 2 minutes before calling him back. Sure it met a random semi-helpful goal, to some degree, but the new OT is intentionally planning out ahead of time what activities to do and how to use them to specifically meet goals that were carefully designed to meet specific needs based on parent input and her assessments. I feel much better about the intentional process, unsurprisingly.)

I think this is the piece I was missing when I first asked the question. Because I don't memorize lines without thinking them through. I think about how to inflect, how it impacts the listener, how listeners can respond and appropriate responses to that. And trying to parse that down into bite size pieces for my son is making my brain hurt! lol. Color my Conversation is providing some of the pieces, but I'm finding that he tends to use the steps as a script and it sounds unnatural and he is unable to use context to think past a single scripted response. So we are working on individual pieces instead of the whole. I pulled out the picture cards and we are working on just context clues to learn what questions we could possibly ask about each picture.

True. And I suppose instead of scripting my phrases in each situation based on memory of past usage, I have learned to put bits and phrases together to match a variety of stimuli in each situation in order to achieve a specific outcome. A lot of the anxiety reduction over the past year has been learning to let go of some of the reflective analysis after each social encounter because I was internalizing too much and being too hard on myself and thus over analyzing everything I said or did. There is a lot of brain power that goes into that kind of experience that is more than memorization, you are right. That said, I'm kind of jealous of people like my husband where social stuff comes so naturally they don't have to think about it! Thanks for your thoughts - lots to chew on...

I do not know if she is using the book, but I have the book coming today in the mail and we are pairing that with our science unit on the human body starting in January. The OT IS familiar with Kelly Mahler and I have already put a plug in for the new IAC coming out. She has shared some with me some of what she has planned starting in January and it sounds excellent.

I admit I'm still a baby in my thinking process here as many of you are much more researched than I on the topic, but I had a question about something that Peterpan said in her post on the social skills research post. "your very bright kid will memorize and learn the faces and words they say. Will he apply it? Will he recognize it in himself? Will it be natural and durable?" I realize the importance of the interoceptive piece - and we are hitting those goals at our new OT and Play Therapy and at home. BUT, reflecting on my own social skills, I wonder if the question of natural and durable are the right ones? I have no diagnosed label other than anxiety and have been seeing a psychologist for the past year that has literally changed my life regarding the anxious bit. She has helped me through the diagnostic phase for my son and has the opinion that my dad is on the spectrum but does not think I am. BUT my social skills are learned. I play with social settings and phrases and practice on check-out people in stores and on persons trapped in elevators with me. I am a people watcher and will try a comment and see what kind of response I get. I have learned to survey a room and find someone "safe" to converse with and have a collection of conversation starters that I will pull out based on a variety of inputs. I've gotten really good at faking it. I've tricked people into thinking I'm an extrovert and surprised my mom at my ability to manage awkward social situations where even she felt lost. But I memorized and learned the faces and words to say. I guess my question is, if we can get kids to learn faces and memorize the words to say, can that not have a really important place in proper social skill development? The phrase that comes to mind is " fake it until you feel it".

Yes, good point. Imagination - he loves painting, more limited in drawing but he's coming back from a fine motor skill deficit (and is now on track for his age) and I'm starting to see him draw more. He doesn't like to tell stories, but he likes to act things out in play (with trains, cars, etc.). One thing we are currently working on is his ability to retell a sequence of events, he is very weak in his ability to narrate, whether it is something he did or something he's had read to him. He's more the logic kid than the imaginative kid - he loves games.

I've not tried poetry - he never was willing to sit with us for poetry tea, I wonder if he would be willing to sit on the couch with me to read poetry... that's an idea...

so many great suggestions! thanks ladies!! ?

No problem! I realize I was vague originally! and no harm done ? I've had so many professionals tell me how smart he is, and I hear it and see it myself, BUT he can't listen to a book past picture book stage. He can't watch a veggie tales movie (or anything else longer than preschool cartoons) either... but that one doesn't bother me nearly as much! I am not interested in pushing him into reading, in fact I'm teaching him to read REALLY slowly because he's got anxiety that creeps up there too... *sigh* it's a journey. But I really do want more advanced language in what we are reading so that he can at least HEAR better vocabulary and be more willing to let me read to him!

Sure I get your point. But I was vague - when I say he doesn't like chapter books I mean he screams and throws a fit if I try to read aloud to my other kids. So we have to work on it - we are starting at anxiety reduction and the ability to retell basic storylines. Stuff like that. In general we need to work on his tolerance of allowing me to read to his older sisters, his ability to handle a story. But a lot of the picture books I have on the shelf right now are simplistic and I need to expand that some.

thanks! that was a great idea!

I have a 5 year old kid who has a really high vocabulary (according to speech evaluation) but due to other issues also prefers picture books to anything else right now...He can't handle the plot-line of chapter-books. We are working on it, but I'd love to find some picture books to get him for Christmas that are rich in higher-vocabulary. I'm sure such a think exists, I just don't know how to find them. Any suggestions?

I know I read about exploding dots here on the board, but I wanted to bring it up again and share my success of the day... 2 days ago my 7 year old was working through Ronit Bird activities in the dyscalcula toolkit. We just got to the bridging through 10 section and she was having huge problems understanding how to get a solution to any 10 + (pick a number under 10) problem. I used all sorts of manipulatives and various ways to demonstrate and show and explain and she still was struggling to get the concept. So I taught her the basics behind the exploding dots video that I had just looked at recently, and it totally clicked for her. She was able to tell me the answer to any 10+(pick a number) problem without any extra processing time. So yesterday we went through the first 2 lessons on exploding dots, to be sure she really understood that concept and today we went on the beginning of lesson 3, the part about using exploding dots for addition, and she was so excited to be able to successfully add 3 digit by 3 digits with "explosions". I used to teach sped in the public school system and I've NEVER come across another strategy that was SO EFFECTIVE at teaching kids the concept of place value. I totally did a little happy dance after sending her off to play! http://gdaymath.com/courses/exploding-dots/

I wish. She's not a professor, she's part of a physical therapy office and works with all kinds of kids with speech delays. She paired really well with my son, I was able to leave the room without him having a problem during the eval, (which is pretty huge for him with a new person) and she claimed to have been "looking" for something that she could service him on because he "was so sweet and nice and I just would love to have an excuse to work with him." In the room, after the eval, but before she scored him, she was telling me he was fine. "I've even written down several things he said that were above his age norm" I challenged her on several points - things that I saw in the room with her that I know to be an issue - and she acted like, "oh, well, I guess I did have to prompt him more than I might have expected to for his age...but I still think he'll score just fine on everything". She insisted that every issue I brought up with language at home or in public was "behavioral" not language related. I asked her about narrative language, asking her to evaluate him on that and gave her specific examples of time when he can't tell back things (like ever), and she told me again it was behavioral. In her "professional opinion" (which, btw, the way she spoke the phrase several times, her posture changed and voice changed, it sounded very scripted, speaking of scripts, so as to avoid me arguing with her) he has all the language and comprehension in tact to be able to handle anything he ever wants to say, anywhere. The rest is behavioral. This is why I was shocked and actually excited when the test results came in the mail and showed his social pragmatics so low. I was like, see, I wasn't wrong there!! Her only "professional recommendation" listed on the report was to find a place that does a social thinking group. I really am not terribly impressed with the social thinking curriculum, though, because he went through that over the spring and summer and maybe it was the lady who led the group but when I would ask targeted questions that were relevant to his handling of group situations that create anxiety, she couldn't answer. It all seemed to be focused on the kids who "act up" and my kid is the kind who shuts down. My kid, in a social situation, is the kid that every teacher LOVES because he is too terrified to speak up, will jump to do everything asked of him immediately, and will never speak or act out of turn. And the one other kid in the social thinking group with him was the act up type, and always off topic, and his mother was almost doing more to keep him in line and on task than the group leader. Anyway, his experience in the social thinking group was entirely before this CELF test so the social pragmatics score right now is AFTER the social thinking group curriculum. If I judge that the way public schools judge things, then that was a big bust. I picked braidy because I didn't want to assume that I could skip that step, I figured a few more dollars to start there would just be insurance that I was able to build his foundation from the bottom up. I was looking at color my conversation and am really impressed at how well it is setup and how all the parts are so integrated. I have to think about how to raise the motivation for him to start it, because getting into new things and doing it with his siblings, which is what I probably will want to do in order to make it more of a group feel, are always really difficult for him.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - she literally didn't want to work with us. Gave us the test results and said let me know if you have questions and refuses to do more with us. I figure the group I find (I have a couple leads) will need to have SLPs on staff so that I can find someone whose willing to work with the social stuff and not just do it at home... I'm doing Braidy, both with him and my dyslexic daughter, and while she's probably not needing it, she's loving it, so we're going with it. And I have an old SLP friend in another state who loves Braidy too so I know I can't go wrong there. I have to agree with you here. I want my kids to learn to think for themselves, not just script the language back that they are taught to say. So yes, I'm very excited about the curriculum coming out, and just praying I can afford it when it does or else I'm going to be pulling from the emergency fund and begging forgiveness from my husband... L-THEANINE is what she recommended. I tried GABA with him and it did no good at all. I have personally tried 5-HTP and I reacted to it (my nerves became hyper sensitive so that a simple scratch would BURN) so from that genetic standpoint you mentioned, I'm leary of trying it with him.

Actually the SLP was more the "good I've passed him and I recommend a social group for the social stuff" kind of person and didn't want to do any additional testing even when I specifically asked about it. So instead we are doing Braidy and Visualizing and Verbalizing and trying to decide on something for social pragmatics and find a group to get him into in addition to 1-1 OT and play therapy. The doctor is a nurse practitioner in a nearby town and was recommended to us by our functional pediatrician as someone who can do the "pediatric mental stuff" better. She listened to my story, had the opinion that the additional lymes test is not necessary, gave me a 4-tier plan for helping his anxiety, starting with a supplement that she doesn't sell, but knows it's worked for some kids (and I found it for $15 for a month's supply online), and was more impressed at the diet we have him than interested in adding to it with supplements/restrictions. She struck me as more of "I'm part of your team" than an "I'm in charge of your son's health" type of person.