She can add and subtract past 10 using a number line.

And yet the more I research, the more I wonder if Right start wouldn't be better, takes the potential of videos out of the equation and people seem to really like it for those younger grades where we are...even if it is more teacher intensive.

My dd7 (nearly 8 )is severely dyslexic and not tested for math disabilities, but I've always assumed that her math was impacted by her dyslexia (I'm starting to wonder if she's got a specific learning disability in math too). We are using Ronit Bird and she's currently able to add and subtract within 10 with confidence, and can bridge to 10 but not through 10 to larger numbers without lots of prompts. She understands how to do exploding dots to add bigger numbers, but has not been able to move past that with any confidence and since bridging through 10 is still prompt bound. She has a heck of a time grasping how to manipulate numbers and cannot hold more than one thing in her head at a time. We've worked some with On Cloud 9 and that has helped a little, but not enough to get past this hump. She hates the games (and manipulatives that I pull out to use) from Ronit bird. She just wants to "do math" like her sister and brother, who go through workbook pages with me and don't struggle, and her brother, who is younger, doesn't always need or use the manipulatives to complete problems, so I wonder if that's driving part of the dislike of manipulatives (he's using MEP level 1 right now)...I tried a few pages of that with her too and they got too difficult pretty quickly. They want her to manipulate the numbers around in the problems (much like math mammoth) and she can't figure out how 5+?=8 is the same as 8-5=? Anyway, I tried starting her over with Math Mammoth level 1 again and I am making no progress. I've hit a wall with adding numbers that bridge past 10, and don't know where to turn now, since she throws big fits anytime I try to do another math "game" with her from Ronit Bird. I need a new approach and don't know where to turn. I am concerned that something like Right Start would be too teacher intensive (I already do an intensive 1-1 with her for reading) and I'd be concerned that she would throw a fit with the number of manipulatives. I'm wondering if math u see would be beneficial given the lack of grade level labels and the videos could be independent... Math Mammoth was a dismal failure...she doesn't need more practice with the same difficult-for-her problems; she needs a different approach. Singapore would probably be too difficult, and Beast academy (what I'm putting my son in next year) is probably far too advanced for her. I don't know where to turn next!

And to be honest, we have this experience in our history with our eldest daughter. We had issues with her not eating, and with a dr. not listening to our concerns and about having to change . dosages and finally ditching the meds entirely because of anxiety and the dr. basically telling us that if we wanted her to calm down and be able to focus, the anxiety was just what we had to deal with. Bum deal. So we said no thanks and we do other stuff now that works *enough* for homeschooling. She could do public school if we needed to with minimal supports, it would just take a lot out of her. Support level - I do not believe that he would be able to make it through a day of public k. There are absolutely people who think he could, but the two with degrees after their names don't. The psychologist told me we'd need an IEP for public K, and that homeschooling is a better idea. The pediatrician flat out told me to homeschool, but part of that was because she said one-on-one support is always better than what the school can offer, even in the most intense placement settings. The OT has not voiced an opinion on the matter except to be impressed at how much I'd already implemented prior to coming to her. (I can't tell you how many times I'll ask for advice on an issue, tell her what I already do, and get the response "you're already doing everything I can suggest in that situation.) Well-meaning random people in our lives are of the opinion that "it might be a difficult transition at first, but that's what the public school teachers are trained for, he'll adjust", so we realize that "adjust" means different things to different people and without degrees behind their opinions, they don't count. I get to observe OT today, so I'm curious to see how that goes, and will be speaking to the OT about difficulty/support levels afterward. I am doing research on inositol and might try that as a next step option prior to meds and see how that combined with the picture schedule works. I will say the psychologist a year ago wanted him to have a picture schedule for every day, and I've fallen off from doing that this school year because of the work it took to keep it up. I'm hoping the ipod schedule app helps make it simpler.

But the side effect list is scarier than what we live with!!! I have a dr. appointment already set up for him in 2 weeks. I'll try to make a decision by then. I am also am concerned about the stories of kids who just can't come off of them. (Well, I guess that's adults too) .

That connection - sensory sensitivity and anxiety - is the basis for what the OT is doing with him. I am just really conflicted about the meds. We are currently using L-Theanine (per the dr. as a tier 1 medical intervention for anxiety) 3 times a day and from my perspective, it "takes the edge off". So I'm reading and thinking and researching a next possible step when the L-Theanine we have runs out. One option I've considered is increasing the dosage. One option I've considered is Prozac (feel really unsettled about this, this is the "tier-2" option from the dr.). One option I may consider is cbd oil ("tier-3" option from the dr.). I'm just not sure at this point.

Ok this - this is highly possible. He is very much anxious in most settings when I am not with him. He will not even go back with the OT without me walking him back, still. He is highly anxious about separating from me in other settings. I'm so sick of well-meaning adults telling me to just leave him and he'll adjust. I finally have the teachers he works with regularly to a point where they have stopped suggesting that. And yes, It is HIGHLY possible I am providing supports for him that I do second nature, while he is in the session. The OT wants me to join and participate and I wonder if the little things I say or do support his regulation in ways that she doesn't notice. I am going to watch for that and make notes of things I would have said/done instinctively while watching through the 2-way glass to see if there's some support missing there. I am learning this about a lot of things. It's like learning a new rule book for kid development/function. Thanks for explaining all this so thoroughly! Yes, and I believe my Dr. agrees with you, my own psychologist agrees with you. Here's the thing, I have a lot of opinions and gut feelings about various things. For example, the diet we're following. It was a gut decision and we have seen it be hugely beneficial. I really do feel like I need to address the anxiety bit, but my gut feeling after listening to the Dr. describe the prescription options to me (and her perspective was as a parent of a kid similar to mine who is now in college and she used these meds with him) my gut just says that isn't the right option. I don't know why, I can't explain it, but there's something about those prescription options that feel wrong for our situation. I'm not sure what the "right" option is, but those aren't it at the moment.

Thanks for this and OMG what a brilliant idea to learn meditation by watching Jedi use it in Star Wars! He's TOTALLY too young for Star Wars, we can't even get through a single episode of veggie tales...but I might have to see if I could find something similar in usefulness. We are a hair's breathe away from his pediatrician prescribing meds for the anxiety, and believe me we've tried a variety of supplements. I'm currently grappling with a variety of options, both mainstream and not, because to a big degree the anxiety is getting in the way of the other developmental stuff.

Yes, his primary issue is definitely anxiety. And when I have tried to use a visual schedule at home it has been helpful, but limiting in that the pictures I had printed were never the right thing, or the specific transition I needed scheduled was just not fitting, or some other related reason...thus I am hopeful that an app will give me more flexibility there. But I think that maybe you're right, what is ON the schedule needs to be a big part of the fix. I went back in the OT eval and goals and see that the underlying assumption of his anxiety is "impaired tactile processing". Which I could see before, but I'm also seeing that tactile processing improve (he's able to tolerate an increasing number of clothing textures, for example) and I'm NOT seeing an improvement in anxiety, AT ALL. In fact, we've seen his OCD type anxiety symptoms INCREASE over the past 2 weeks along with a severe disruption to the schedule because of weather and illness. We do have this issue when I try using the time timer out of the context of a regular routine. So for example, if I randomly set the timer for 10 minutes, expecting him to transition from a preferred activity to a non-preferred activity at that time, it's not going to work. So I will watch for this with working on a schedule too. So if I'm understanding you here, what you're saying is that if the demands of OT are too high for him, all the schedules in the world won't help him transition better on day 1, because the schedule doesn't resolve the high demand issue. I'll have to think more on that and see what I can notice next time at OT when I can observe. I need to start tracking the difficult transition times to see what I can figure out.

Lecka, thanks for your thoughts, I have been pondering the OT stuff since it happened, because this is the second difficult transition after OT (two sessions in a row). One thing the OT told me the last time was that when I am able to get babysitting and thus join the session, he's more anxious than when I'm in the waiting room with the siblings. Which is kind of funny because she is NOT happy with the fact that I can't get babysitting for my other 3 kids more often (dude, I'm a homeschool mom to 4 kids, it's not like I can just dump all the kids at school and do whatever I want!). We also, long story, but she wanted us to use the ILS focus system but there was a massive breakdown in communication (not going to say they lied, but it might boil down to that from my perspective...) and when my husband and I put our foot down and said no, she said ok, we'll do the calm and prep program during sessions for free. Then this last session she told me, "he's on session 9 already! This means he's basically completed the program and we'll start over when that happens! He's making tremendous progress!" (that sounds like a flag to me - like the progress in a listening program is replacing observation of actual progress?) She's also told me that the multi-sensory input from the headphones was the cause for him to improve in a motor skill/task during the same session - which may very well be so, but it is also possible that she was able to scale it back and give him practice so that he was then able to do better by the end of the session. I don't know. I'm pleased with some aspects of the OT (her ability to scale difficulty level up and down on the fly, listened to my concerns/goals and put MY goals into her plan) and displeased with other aspects (communication, follow through, communication, consistency in skills presented, communication...) I hate to turn this thread into an evaluation discussion of the efficacy of this particular OT, but I do wonder how I should proceed. I am having difficulty getting my thoughts into coherent words about what I want to see change/shift for OT and we have agreed to 4 more weeks (at twice a week) before we stop, at which point I am planning on taking a break (and likely not going back due to communication issues... did I mention I'm not happy with communication?). She did email me with thoughts about the past two transition difficulties and her suggestions for going forward include: A weighted blanket during the fine motor task, which she ends each session with, to help him calm after gym time. ((My thought on this - he's hated all weighted blankets/pets I've tried with him in the past and he much prefers compression - I might just have him wear his compression shirt to all OT sessions)) She wants to talk to me about using the brushing protocol again ((she is calling it 'informal' because she's not specifically trained in wilbarger protocol - I did this protocol about a year and a half ago now and it made a huge difference in his ability to accept any touch. He went from recoiling against touch to accepting hugs and willing to sit on laps, etc. I'm not sure one way or another what I think about restarting this.)) She wants to create a transition routine with choices for him to make at the beginning of the session and a requirement that he follow those choices at the end of the session to address the specific aspect of the transition from OT to the car. I will say that her email did show me that she is accurately seeing the anxiety/ocd/rigidity in his behavior that I am seeing, so at least we are seeing the same things. But she did not say anything about the possibility of the demands of OT being too much for him or any mention of disregulation. Other things we're implementing per her suggestion - Today I am finishing putting together a "calming box" with a few fidgets/bubble timer/other mindless things for him to mess with as he calms down from an emotional outburst. I am also hopeful to use this box as a preventative measure when he begins to get disregulated in other settings and needs to take a break. we already have a "calm down closet" space for him with a sensory bin, body sock, lava lamp, etc. for him to utilize when he wants "alone time" and he uses it with great success at home. This new box will hopefully be a travel kit. We have an iPod coming in the mail tomorrow, and we are going to try a picture scheduling app (as recommended by the OT), and put the time-timer app on it (since we use those timers regularly for transitions at home), and some calming music for him to choose, etc. for an easy take it with us picture schedule/timer/calming tool. My husband said the kids he works with in his school utilize technology similar to this and that he thinks it would be beneficial. I have opportunity to observe the next OT session, so that will be interesting, (not be a part of - but observe through a window set up for parent observation). I also have opportunity to have a half-hour parent session next week if I want to in order to discuss progress/goals so if I want to change something, that will be the best time to discuss it. Like I said, I'm just having some difficulty organizing my thoughts about what I'm seeing and what I would rather see.

He's 6 and he's very verbal when he wants to be. The SLP won't even work with him because she refused to do more than the CELF-5 with him and he's able to pass that well above age level. I just haven't had the energy to find one who is willing to look deeper for me. I'll look into the Explosive Child and see what I can glean from that, thanks!

We're having an uptick in behaviors around transitions, and while we are in the process getting some things to implement some suggestions from the OT, I wanted to see what you guys use that work for your kids who struggle with this. We used to, in the fall, have difficulty getting him out of the house. We've since developed a daily routine that involves leaving the house almost every day for "regular" things that never or almost never change (weather last week really screwed us up) so that routine has helped a lot. Anything outside of that routine is hit or miss, though. And now it's transitioning away from the fun things he's doing and getting in the car to come home that is becoming more difficult. In fact, it took me 30 minutes in the parking lot yesterday to get him to buckle up to go home after OT. At the end of the session, my son became non-responsive because he couldn't manage the transition to leave. In a typical moment like this I take a lot of time and a lot of stares from strangers while I wait and talk to him (mirroring his emotions tends to help some) and give him choices (and using the time timer, which I didn't have on hand this time) and work our way towards the transition (usually the car so I can leave wherever we are). This time, the OT was like, I'll take time out of my schedule to help you get out the door. In the end he OT had this smug "I helped" look on her face and I'm thinking, great, you rushed my non-responsive kid in the midst of a mini-meltdown out the door and now I'm being held hostage in the car with my other kids quiet and patiently waiting for his behavior to abate so we can drive away. He has to calm down from these fits before I can leave because no one has been able to give me a safe option for buckling him that he cant undo and without my husband to drive so I can physically sit next to him and keep him buckled, there's nothing else to do but wait. I realize that he didn't sleep as well the night before, and that he hadn't eaten super great so far that day, and that he has a cough, so it's possible he's coming down with something, but as legit as these triggers are for him, I also realize that I need better strategies for these difficult transitions. BTW, these moments have reduced dramatically - what used to be behavior that I dealt with several times a day, has slowly worked its way over the past year to a couple times a week. I just feel like I need some tools to work on the transition moments. Even if it's a slow process, I need to work towards something! The play therapist claims that what they are doing together should help with transitions, and honestly, that might be why we've seen the improvements we have seen so far, but in the meantime I need some tools!!

So I emailed the SLP who loaned me the books with my question on perspective as well, and I can't figure out if I just disagree fundamentally with her or if I'm missing something in what she's saying. she said "I am of the belief that dissecting skills for children with ASD does not help them develop those skills and that every child despite his diagnosis has different innate skills." Am I missing something here? Because I'm of the opinion that if you have missing skills/holes in development, you need to fill those in. Or am I mis-reading what she said? She also said in response to my comments about using Mahlers work on interoception, "When working with children with ASD it is actually helpful to have them talk about perspective because it often helps them identify or label their own feelings and point of view." She also advised using social stories for this, and to get him reading and talking about stories to help identify emotions and how he's feeling. Finally, she told me "Keep in mind that similar to the development of other skills you do not stop exposing a child to a concept just because they're have not reached that level of development quite yet." She gave an example of this by telling me that when he's throwing a fit about leaving the house, to acknowledge his feelings, tell him how I feel (sorry or upset) and then to give him my perspective: that I'm worried that if we don't leave the house now, we will be late. Sorry, but in that situation, talk like that will do nothing for my son. Especially if it's something he doesn't want to go to. Late? Sounds good to him! Is there a chance to miss it entirely? I'll start fighting harder! And I don't often expose my kids to developmentally inappropriate things just because it's an important concept... I don't expose them to math concepts that they aren't ready to learn, books they are not ready to begin reading, or tools (scissors, knives, needles, etc.) that they do not have the beginning ability to properly use...That said I do expose them to advanced vocabulary in speaking, but I do so with definitions a lot of the time to help them understand what I mean, which would put it on a developmentally appropriate level... I don't know, maybe I'm missing the point here, but the entire point of the zone of proximal development is to not give kids concepts they aren't ready to work on with help, but to find that ideal level that will allow them to be stretched but not to the point of frustration.

This is interesting, thanks for the link!

I honestly didn't look through the Ready-To-Use Social Skills Lessons & Activities for grades 4-6 book from the Social Skills Curriculum Activities Library. We're struggling to use grade level social activities and he's 5. So it wasn't really worth my time. Flipping through it it looks like a worksheet driven resource that gives steps for how to do something (eg. reacting to change) with a story base, specific steps to take, then a worksheet for them to apply the skills to a new scenario. It does look like ideas are given for a variety of teaching methods including role play and discussion. Next book is Room 14 A Social Language Program by Linguisystems. I actually made a note of this book in case I run across extra money and want to throw it in this direction. I do like how they focus on specific skills but we are not ready for this yet. For example, for using self-control there is a page for how to cool off from strong feelings, how to have happy thoughts to keep you from "blowing up at someone or saying something unkind" with a thought bubble to color, ideas for how to stop, look, listen, and think, etc. Basic topics covered include making and keeping friends, fitting in at school, handling your feelings, using self-control, being responsible. There are a variety of worksheet pages but again we're looking at black and white drawings of emotions....... Last book is Telling a story by Marilyn Toomey. This looks like a writing book, and could be used in a language arts program. Part 1 is telling a story (basic sequencing with several story examples accompanied with pictures to separate each part of the story) Part 2 is characters (physical and personality traits and feelings) setting (places and times), inferring character and setting, reverse inference, story beginnings, characters' responses, attempts to resolve conflicts. Part 3 is telling your own story, writing your own story, story starters, titles, pictures. For narration, I much much prefer the Mind Wings sequence and breakdown. I feel like this book would be more useful for my older daughter who doesn't have issues with narration, and would be purely a language arts writing tool. It is interesting to me that the preface to the book shows that this book was developed for children whose language skills are not developing as expected and who therefore have difficulty developing "storytelling skills". The idea behind the book is to help improve "storytelling" and thus "sharpen an important tool for information retrieval" and develop a means of expressing her imagination through storytelling. I don't know... it just seems out of order after working with MindWings Braidy material. And there you have it! That's what I got to look at!

Next book: The Language of Perspective taking, by Marilyn Toomey and Circuit Publications This is a 5 part book, starting with taking another perspective based on physical conditions. 2 pages per topic: page 1 includes a half-page picture and a short story. Page 2 includes a list of questions to think through the picture and story and asks questions that have the child try to think about the people's perspective in the picture. Part 2 is associating a causal event with an emotion or feeling. It includes several pages of expressions with definitions of each emotion. then a single page per topic showing a picture of an event (girl looking in window at bike) and a short couple sentence story explaining (it's the bike of Megan's dreams). Another part of the page shows what Megan is thinking with a thought bubble (riding bike) and words (she is hopeful...) final part of the page asks 3 questions. (Why could she be hoping for the bike...? Do you think she feels there is a good chance she will get the bike...? If she does not get this wonderful bike, what do you think she might hope for?) **My opinion here is that the language is weird. I tried to give examples of the language structure that I didn't like in my example - I would probably reword all these questions if I were using this book. Part 2 ends with a list of other ways to describe each feeling. Part 3 gives examples of how different people can experience the same emotions through different experiences with pictures and thought bubbles and such. Part 4 shows how 1 event can impact many people in different ways. (not everyone experiences the same emotion at the same event). (btw, the picture of the wedding shows the best man was upset because he was in love with the bride, the maid of honor who was depressed because she was in love with the groom, the camera girl who was unsure because she was using an untested camera, the mom of the bride who regretted everything she didn't do with her daughter, the dad who was proud of everything he and the mom did right to raise her, and the kid who was bored and hungry and unhappy...at least the bride and groom were happy anyway...but this page alone is enough for me to not spend money on this book.) Part 5 is a match the statements to learn how you can experience conflicting emotions at a single event. (eg. being disappointed that there's no chocolate pie and being happy that you didn't consume the calories...) I felt like this book had A LOT of emotions and pictures of emotions and I really am sick of books that want to teach emotions from facial expressions done in black and white. For us, we have a lot of groundwork to cover before the topics in this book would be helpful.

These books were loaned to me to review over the break by an SLP (who does not work with my son, but who knows and works with my husband and has heard our son's story and knows I homeschool). Peterpan asked me to give my thoughts on them for your benefit... if you aren't familiar with the books. First up: Autism & PDD Things I Can Say and Do by LinguiSystems. In general these are workbooks that give you 2 pages: a web for ideas on what to say, and a web for ideas on what to do. Worksheets include one filled in with ideas and one blank for a child to fill in. In the back is a letter to parents and a web progress chart to keep track of what webs the child has worked through. Intro includes a how to use guidelines that tell things like how to be functional and promote conversation. I got to look at the following books in the series: Holidays (including MLK jr., Rosh Hashanah, Kwanza, valentines day, Passover, etc.) Weather,Seasons, & Months (weather includes hot, cold, rain, sunny, snowy. All 4 Seasons and all 12 months) People & Places (including common people that children see: classmates, parents, teacher, friends, a new person, pets, stranger. and common places: lunch, recess, school, movies, mall, grocery store, etc.) Feelings & Actions (all basic feelings including tired, sick, and hungry; actions common to every day including games, computer time, mealtimes, etc. Also includes getting lost, in trouble, when hurt...) My personal opinion on these books: I might be downplaying the importance of the idea, but to me it feels like promoting heavy scripting. These are not things that I personally feel would benefit my son in such a highly structured setting, and would prefer to give him similar ideas/lessons through conversation about an upcoming event/time/whatever. For example, we will discuss going to see a Dr. and look her picture, talk about what she does, what she might say or do, what we might be able to ask or tell her, etc. I think the other ideas might be better discussed through the use and discussion of picture books as we read, or again, through conversation about life as it happens to prepare/solve problems. I also feel like the discussion on the webs might be to far removed from the experience itself that they are supposed to prepare the child for, at least in my son's case. Next up: 204 Fold & Say Social Skills by Super Duper. these are reproducable pages that are meant to be copied, folded and colored by the child. For example, one is Needing someone's help with a picture of tying shoelaces. Page 2 is a more in depth picture of a boy trying to tie his shoes with an uncertain look on his face and a sentence telling what is going on. Page 3 is a box and lines to draw a picture of what happens next. Page 4 is a list of 5 questions to discuss the topic with child. Summarized, the questions read: What can he do, who should he talk to, what will this person do, what should he say after that, how will he feel after he gets help? My thoughts: This is a great book for someone working with a large population because it gives you a lot of scenarios to work through and a set script that makes the discussion easy. For use in the home setting, probably not as useful. I would never think to flip through this book to find a random topic to pull out and use as needed. Again I would probably talk about these things as they happen in life, and I often try to teach these skills with positive reinforcement rather than paper and pencil. For example, after prompting him to ask for help (which I have to do a lot) I would say, "Thanks for asking for help! I love helping you!" or "I love how you say thanks and gave her a hug, it made her feel so special" Next book to be continued in comments...

Ok here's your picture...I'm starting a new thread for you with my thoughts on the books 🙂

I would like to buy it. I own Braidy and like it, so I assume the other stuff they have would be good too. I've got SKIL on my list to look at but thought the kit from MW would be a better use of money... what do you think? You own both, could you give me a rundown/comparison of the two?

sure! I don't know that I'll have time today, it depends on how the morning goes, but I'll give you a little something about each book before I send them back in 🙂 I am thinking, regarding a "curriculum" for perspective-taking, that I am going to do MindWings autism collection starting next year - that gives me some time to focus on some other things in the meantime, meet some basic narration goals, work on interospection, etc. I like the look of mindwings stuff better than linguisystems at the moment. I don't find Braidy to be quite as user friendly as I might have liked, but with time lesson planning it is working really well - I love the hands-on nature of it, (I made a laminated Braidy doll, which was more budget friendly!!) And I feel pretty confident that the Autism collection will be just as effective. I have had him go through We Thinkers 1 with the old OT, although it was poorly implemented - the lessons were geared towards the one other boy in the group. But I was thinking that if I buy the next volume myself I can more carefully direct the lessons to my son's needs and it would be more beneficial. My goal is to have that in place over the summer, I need to save some before I buy it. We've had a tumultuous week and I'm looking forward to getting back into our routine. Just getting back into play therapy yesterday made a big impact on regulation and behavior. I've just got to get through today's last family Christmas get-together and then we can breathe again.

Sorry I wasn't clear - this is not an SLP that is working with him - we are not using an SLP right now. This is an SLP that is working at the same school as my husband and she sent the books home because she thought I'd be interested in looking at them because my husband has chatted with her. She can't actually work with my son and gets no benefit financially from my looking at her books. I've got a list of goals that I'm working on at home, and I was thinking that the concept of perspective will follow along and boost many of our other goals at the same time, it just wasn't something I'd thought of before, and yet it fits nicely. So no, I'm not letting curriculum drive my goals; even the professionals even have the resources to tell them what to do, they don't think it up on their own, so it's not unreasonable for me to want a resource to help me set goals. Regarding the behaviorist: I've called several places, the ones without the wait lists don't have good reviews and DO have turnover, because they are looking at ABA like short term OT goals and often meet with kids once a week for an hour. I'm not interested in wasting my time with them. I've got other goals being hit in other ways and like I said, there are only so many hours in a day and I am doing what I can. We already have over 6 hours of therapy a week scheduled starting next week. And that doesn't include the goals I'm working on myself since I'm not using an SLP right now.

Great thanks, that's very helpful! And it sounds like someone trained in how to use it would be helpful too 🙂 But can see the point about peers not being siblings. One thing we had to realize over the past couple years was that "social play" at home and at the playground with other kids was different and that difference WAS actually an issue. I'm also seeing the skill set difference between comprehension and ability in our living room, and in any other location; or even in our living room with guests. But honestly a book of lists like that is a good starting point for me, since the wait lists are insane for behaviorists here. November turned into December, which turned into January and I'm not convinced January is going to happen, lol. At the very least it will give me some ideas as to what skills we need to even consider looking at!

Interesting. I wonder if buying the VB-MAPP on Amazon would be beneficial to show me specifically what else we need to work on.

An SLP that works with my husband in the public school system sent home a box of her social skills books for me to look through over the Christmas break. One was on teaching kids perspective taking. Looking through the book I can see 2 things - first, this is a skill that my son doesn't have, and second, that the book, which starts with different points of view based on physical conditions as described in a story and picture, are too abstract for where we are right now. So obviously interospection will be a prerequisite to taking someone's perspective when it comes to "how do you think she feels" type questions, but what are the prerequisites, or groundwork, for even the most basic perspective taking? The concept that another person has a different experience of the world than I do. Or a more concrete way to teach that first step of points of view based on physical conditions (a tall person would experience reaching for things or sitting at a small table differently than a short person, for example.) And where does that concept fit into the hierarchy of social skills? I realize that it is likely one of those things that "by age thus and such" you start to develop it, but what skills were in place prior to that development in order to allow for the development of perspective to begin to develop, apart from question of developmental age? Anyone know?

My son hates discussing emotions and feelings too. The thing that makes me so hopeful about the interoception work is that it doesn't start with "I feel tense and my face is hot and and my stomach is in a knot, I must be angry, let's try these strategies to calm down". It starts (at least in the book, I'm curious to see how the curriculum adds to this) at the level where you notice how different textures feel on your skin. Trying to feel your heart beat after activity and trying to make it go slower, that kind of thing. Just noticing things. So it's neutral. no emotion in it at first. Which means I can help my son get in touch with his body and how he's feeling things, without discussing emotions. One of the big things we've been trying to shift in our house for the past, I don't know, 6 months or more, is that there are no "bad emotions". They are what they are. Some are such that we don't like the way we feel, but that doesn't make it "bad" because I think he was connecting a "bad" emotion with "being bad" and that was worsening his anxiety. I had to actually ask his previous OT to stop using a game she tried with him where they literally classified emotions as good or bad and moved along a game board and I can't remember the point of the game now, but the language was terrible and he would shut down so entirely that would end the session. A psychologist helped us figure out the label of "bad" emotions being the issue. The thing is, at least for my situation, recognizing emotions does have to come second to really understanding how your body feels, and I think trying to hide or shy away from emotions makes it really difficult to feel what your body is doing. I know for myself, when I struggled with some anxiety and depression for a couple years, by the time I sought help, I didn't realize that the TMJ in my jaw was 100% tension. I was just tense ALL THE TIME and never felt it. Different strategies and meds helped to reduce that at times, and I started to wonder why some things impacted the TMJ and others didn't... Now I use my jaw as a barometer for my stress levels. Is it locked or popping or smooth? I had to work for several weeks to learn how to feel the tension in my jaw so that I could relax it. I literally couldn't feel tension there. Now I can. Feeling tension there isn't going to help me not experience stress or anxiety, but it's the first step to helping me cope with various stressers in life better. Now I can feel that tension and take steps to stop, relax, take a few deep breaths, take a new perspective on what's going on, take a break, whatever is necessary in the moment.