Heathermomster , I think the same thing. The test administrator wasn't may e qualified. That's all classic dysgraphia at a minimum. The dysgraphia as a whole wasn't explained. It's more than messy handwriting. Mama was right to come here :)

There's our all known a well loved OhE input. :) It's why I used my corny...Shakespeare reference to...calling our OhE haha :)

In fact, I was so close to full on break down several months ago, I had to go in an antidepressant . Changed my world. I know honey, I've been there. I get it more than I want too. Live on the MRI side of things, and know way more things than I ever wanted to or care too. Unfortunately , I do know things. How could I sleep at nite or live with myself if I didn't spare another mom and family of the same things by not sharing info I have? I couldn't. That's why me and others pressed. Noone said don't take a break. We know...breaks are essential. We all take them. You have to fir our own mental health. We are no good to ourselves or our kids if we're losing it. After my last round of testing, I lost it. That's when doc out me on cymbalta. I know, I get it. As I said...me and the other moms...get it way more than we ever wanted to .

I supported taking a break. I've been there too. Just on the tail end. I said. Breaks are good, we need them. I know. I get it. There are months I am sure gonna have a nervous breakdown. Really. I get it more than you know. This is tough stuff we deal with. Without breaks, I am quite certain me ans my real life friends would have had a form of a nervous breakdown . I only and others too...wanted you to , when ready, to get an image and rule it out. Thsts all. We deal with the daily reality of nuero issues and see the importance that we caught them sooner rather than later. Later findings...bou...talk about a nervous breakdown . that's the mother of all breakdowns. We don't want tat for you. Noon said don't take a break. I even said...take a break and when your ready...blank. I said...go to dinner n movie w hubby. That's all, we know the realities that we live with day in and day out. We wanted to help another avoid that issue or not let it get too much further down the road. I get it. I have been flat out ticked off at ppl suggesting such things. I realized later ...the wisdom in their words.

I see that you're offended. Was never my intent. I won't say another word about it. Its only BC we care and we see things from a more objective lens. Very sorry I have upset you . that was never my intent. I will back off and stay away. :) best of wishes to you and you're daughter.

I have a story of a very close friend here, that very simar symptoms surfaced around mermaids moms lil ones age. I don't want to share it BC I don't want to scare mermaids mom. There is a reason 10-13 or so intelligent been there done that moms...are urging her to rule out a nuero issue. Some of the stories haven't been shared, for the very reason I'm not sharing my friends story. We don't want to overly alarm her. But, that specialist made a determination, that no human can determine. Only an image can tell us that, even then...images miss stuff. That's all, we care. We don't want her down the road to be at a place going, omg. I should have ruled it out, now? It's irriversable. Thays what were saying. We have protected her from specific stories that are on the extreme and horrible end of the spectrum (not autism but nuero speaking). There's a reason, all of these respectable women are saying the same thing. I know mom has anxiety about the MRI. That's not a good enough reason to not get it done. Like I said, we care. It would be way easier for all of us to walk away and say nothing. That's not what were doing . We are trying to point out, the other side of missing what a simple image would uncover. Yes, she knows her child and well. But, she does not have x-ray vision. Just as you challenged me the other day Canadian mom to read on autism. I wasn't crazy about that. But I needed to hear it and I needed to do it. I listened to your wise words and am reading the link you provided and trying to find others. Just because we don't want to hear it, doesn't mean it isn't good for us, or what we need to hear and more importantly ....do.

You make a GREAT point. Really, it's true. We parents know our kids better than anyone. With the symptoms and what *could be* the neuro route, is important to note here. The doc cannot say with any sort of certainty what is going on inside. It's been pointed out on the boards many times, you can go to 3 docs and have 3 different assessments. We do know our kids...better than anyone and mermaid s mom sounds like one if the exceptional parents who really pay attention . which is why she caught this. Knowing your child, does not give us that inside image view if what's goin on inside. I/we only say these things, BC most of us have been where she is. I have, and I know others commenting , have also,...had specialists tell us...ah nah...it's all good 'my external assessment' was adequate. Only to later find something that an MRI turned up that was *the root cause * of what the specialist was tellin us...nah. Youre all good. Not all specialist are created equally. And noone can say for certain ness , what is really going in, without that image. It's hard. It's really hard. Hard for moms too. But we can't tell what's going on inside. I have so wished before we lived in a time where we had x-ray vision and could see these things fir certain . But we don't, and we can't. Many/some of us have kids that have neiro issues. We speak from experience and dealing with specialist. Here's one thing about specialist . they have this....almost 'God like' opinion of themselves. I get it they have alot of school and experience. That does not make them correct 100% of the time. We are all human. Specialist included. And none if us, specialist included can not say with certainty ...what is going on , on the inside. Only the MRI will tell us that. Even then, mri's aren't a 100%. Thy miss things too. So if the mri's miss things...don't we thing even more and specialist do and does miss things? Of course they do. We come from a place of love and concern and first hand experience . Some of us, things were missed by an over confident specialist. That's all. And it would be way easier for all of us to abandon this thread and be done. That's where the caring about and concern comes in.

You make a GREAT point. Really, it's true. We parents know our kids better than anyone. With the symptoms and what *could be* the neuro route, is important to note here. The doc cannot say with any sort of certainty what is going on inside. It's been pointed out on the boards many times, you can go to 3 docs and have 3 different assessments. We do know our kids...better than anyone and mermaid s mom sounds like one if the exceptional parents who really pay attention . which is why she caught this. Knowing your child, does not give us that inside image view if what's goin on inside. I/we only say these things, BC most of us have been where she is. I have, and I know others commenting , have also,...had specialists tell us...ah nah...it's all good 'my external assessment' was adequate. Only to later find something that an MRI turned up that was *the root cause * of what the specialist was tellin us...nah. Youre all good. Not all specialist are created equally. And noone can say for certain ness , what is really going in, without that image. It's hard. It's really hard. Hard for moms too. But we can't tell what's going on inside. I have so wished before we lived in a time where we had x-ray vision and could see these things fir certain . But we don't, and we can't. Many/some of us have kids that have neiro issues. We speak from experience and dealing with specialist. Here's one thing about specialist . they have this....almost 'God like' opinion of themselves. I get it they have alot of school and experience. That does not make them correct 100% of the time. We are all human. Specialist included. And none if us, specialist included can not say with certainty ...what is going on , on the inside. Only the MRI will tell us that. Even then, mri's aren't a 100%. Thy miss things too. So if the mri's miss things...don't we thing even more and specialist do and does miss things? Of course they do. We come from a place of love and concern and first hand experience . Some of us, things were missed by an over confident specialist. That's all. And it would be way easier for all of us to abandon this thread and be done. That's where the caring about and concern comes in.

Aww, I feel for ya mama. Sounds like your family needs a break. Take that break. Hug n love on each other and have a normal life together. After the break, ID recommend tighting up any loose ends. I've done thst too. Had to take breaks. I'm just coming off of one in fact. It's been heaven! Lol I know I have to get back on it tho and it starts in about a week with PROMPT. I did that a few years ago, counted on my calendar how many appts we had been too. It was a ton too. It's hard, hard on mom, hard on the kids, hard on the family as a unit. It's good to take a break. Just, getting back from that break is where the important part lies. And hard lol :) Please, at some point this year, when hour family is ready , please get that MRI. You need the internal test as well as external. Even if just to be sure. We all wouldn't be sayin it if we didn't care, and have been there. It's tough, but well worth it . Big big hugs. Go out to dinner and a movie with hubby! That helps me :)

Heathermomster , not. It's not. But coincidentally , my low tone guy , more than one specialist has mentioned hypermoblity. It's basically...loose joints. It used to b confused with those being double jointed. Further research showed. Double jointed isn't always/usually hypermoblity. Hypermoblity creates the more limp limb affect. We had tests run for my oldest for this to rule it out.

Ello loves! :) I've missed you guys, had a mini mommy meltdown lol. Gonna read all of these, and the cm science post, and messages. Vaquitita and Hunter , I soooenjoy and love engaging in convos with you guys. Fascinating and Hunter , you are a wealth of knowledge. :) I like you, glad we know you. Vaquitita and I have made alot of progress brainstorming :) Gonna get the kids bathed and bedded and read all the comments . I take notes in my planning notebook and bookmark the links :)

That's a great idea. Had never heard of that before.

Again, spot on. Crimson wife has personal experience plus education. We care about you and you sweet lil one. I would heed crimson wife's warnings.

This is true and spot on. No way can an external exam tell you what's *really* going on. I know the MRI is a hard thing fir mom and child. It's a *very* important thing to have as part of the diagnosing process. It's vital in fact. Crimson wife said it perfectly. Any doc who says they feel 100% confident, I would switch docs. I would run in fact. Not passing go, not collecting 200.$, ...(monopoly)... Nada. I would find a different doc ASAP. I would listen to crimson wife. She's giving you spot on, educated advise there.

You're right to get the hearing checked too . You're doing good balancing all those balls. It's hard with 2 of them having issues isn't it? I'm going to start new notebooks. One for each child. My current one had 2 sections one for each.child. I just need to do one for each. Ita to easy to swip swap sections and get it mixed up.

I hear ya mama. I'm right there with ya. I missed that she's 6 . that is young. My guy I believe was about 9ish. And we had years of the PS tellin us...he needs help :/ Medicatiting is a very difficult decision . I'm not a fan , sigh, but we came to a point, had to. We did the exact same thing you're doing. Exhausted alleans possible. Therapies ect. When we reached the end if the road and still had issue with it...thata when I did what I did. Told him. Deal with it dude lol. I'm in the same boat with my recently 10 yo. The last np we say uncovered sever APD, like. Makes my heart sad how low/severe it is. ;( She suggested add med to improve focus and retention. Sigh . I am very sure she is right. I've got to get there in my head and heart first. And be SURE we need it. Sucks lol. I had never hear of giving add meds fir APD. But it's pretty severe and since ...I've noticed a couple moms mention it in passing. I'm going to just have to get on board I suppose . it's a lil sad how he doesn't 'get'so much. Funny, this time it's in the reverse with hubby and me. He wants to and I'm like...noooo! Lol. Ugh. Maybe I'll just let dad take him and get it . So hard. So so hard. :/

Canadian mom, you're awesome :)I really appreciate your linking this . At first when you mentioned reading about these things on lionheart's thread. I thought. Omg. I've read and dealt with so much, not the autism aspect. I went parts to whole. Noone said autism until he was older. I now need to go whole to parts in our plan of attack. Starts with reading on the whole. I'm going to watch this video. I took some absorbion time last nite and today. The Latin thing threw me. Had you not said what you did about beating myself uo, I would have gone on full meltdown and done thst very thing, really beat myself up and that's no good for parent or child, so thank you :) I NEEDED to hear that. I so appreciate your sweet loving supportive nature. We need you here . I'm glad you're back :) I say back BC I see you've been a member for a long time. Thanks. :) You're a great asset here :)

Did I understand you right that your second dc has APD or some sort of processing trouble ?

On your second dc,I would do what heathermomster posted. Those are good. We've done them at PS, private, and home therapies and it works great. :) On the ADHD. I used to be anti meds. Until the PS pressed the issue, they told me, he did not fall under the category of medicating so the teacher can deal with behavior, but he needed to fir focusing and attention to school. They said it was pitiful to watch him needlessly struggle . This hit home for me. It was an area I told my dh, we are getting it, and you're going to have to just deal with it. My guy was old when we started, in comparison to when he actually needed it. He needed it to absorb school. To be able to focus, remember, understand. There are ALOT of good meds on the market and not of the same class as the old school Ritalin route. We take vyvanse for ADHD I'm the morning. Then intuniv at nite for other things. The 2 work in unison beautiful lly for my guy. Sometimes, we need to as parents, get over that hump and help our lil kiddos out. The vyvanse doesn't have the Ritalin type of issues. Ita worth investigating and talking to your pediatrician about. The school was right. He struggled needlessly. He had other issues we needed to work on like your guy...ot and we had other things. So to take the trouble and frustration and just feeling like they can never achieve their goals .... We chose to try the med. And it worked. He could do things he wasn't able to before. I know, meds can be and are a big issue. I never thought I'd put my kids in meds. Sometimes , esp with what's on the market today, we just need to throw em a lifeline. I'm sure your dh is thinking like mine was, thinking of the older classes of meds. It ain't your mamas ADHD meds anymore lol

Oh. And if you have Barton level 1, it wouldn't hurt to try and see how it goes. I've heard moms usin Barton and dancing bears together. You may decide to go with Barton long term ,or dancing bears. It gives you exposure to both and see how your DC and you like, respond , and just do overall do better with.

Before I move onto the second dc. You asked about what spelling and/or writing program. Here's what we use with the best success. And we've tried alot. WWE (writing with ease) starts out small and incremental like Singapore does , and builds on that . WWE (I know you're probably talking g handwriting too, I'll address that in a sec. ) WWE starts the budding writer with excerpts from classics like Alice in wonderland , Pinocchio etc. And has the mom asked questions that target what needs to be elicited from the child to targed correct details and answer in complete sentences , which is important to become a good writer, speaker and AIDS in language , having to have a noun/subject, then , adjectives adverbs etc. WWE kills alot of birds with one stone. I have my boys now , when they answer in complete sentences, to write them. When they are finished with the scripted questions (and answers were looking for, thsts important for moms to have the answers we want them to give) I now have them write their in complete sentences answers on paper as we go, giving them time to formulate in their heads what and how to say it. When they're done...that have built and amazing summary. Which is where writing starts. Learning the summary. Having them write wtheir answers will show you where their weaknesses are. At first, I only praise for good complete sentences. After a few summaries. We start to read them back to me, and let them where they can find the things that don'take sence or letter reversals and the like. We then correct them together and I throw them the proverbial life vest in correcting them so not to frustrate them but also, to teach them. We don want them repeatedly doing it wrong BC that will cement errors instead if good work. Handwriting. . May sound goofy but was spot on and so much fun for my boys . The draw write now books. They have a picture in the top half of page, then a caption about the pic on the bottom half. We read the caption. Talk about the pic, how cool it is, what they could do instead (this is almost like a picture suary an gets is important for reading comprehension and analysis they will be doing in later grades. ) We read, talk about the pic. Then put tracing paper over the entire page and they trace the letters, paying ATTN to good handwriting form and neatness. Then we trace the pic and color it in with colored pencils. It helps aslo doing the pic BC...adding details to a picture is prewriting skills. The more details they put in their pics, the more and correct details with will later put in their writing. Drawing pics and filling it in with details. Is the first step to Learning to write and write well. College is all writing, besides math, it's important , to start and build those skills slowly now. Pics and WWE teaching how to answer , for the correct details, lays the foundation for the child to use adjectives, adverbs, prepotional phrases, etc to their writing. The red bird they colored is teaching...using the red bird later. For SN kiddos, these details can be greatly lacking. Esp and they grow and the pull from their nt peers becomes more apparent. SN kids, writing can be a big trip up. Draw write now books did the trick for us. The pics being as important as the text. Then they have a beautiful finished product to hang and share and study. They will look at it and the details I'm the pic. I post their wwe summaries too. They will go back and look at them and reread them, which is great fun practice for well constructed , correct detail sentences. We've all had our kids wrie something and thwy have a ton of unimportant details....ir..a basic 3 sentence summary that doesn't summarize the text. WWE pulls our the * Correct * details. And makes a paragraph when done. It's teaching them to write and write well. Spelling, after they've mastered or at least gotten better with wwe. I would start to correct spelling. Add it to a spelling list and practice those words. Sometimes you find the phonogram memory trouble their having and can use letter tiles to help practice/cement that . Gonna eat dinner. , I'll read your second lil guy afer I eat :)

. And yes, on the timed thing vs untimed is where wm comes into play. That's way better than it being a processing issue. Those are harder to correct. K. Gonna finish reading the second child :)

That's I'm sure right and where I always get it confused. It's the testing we are entitled to and maybe not the therapies. You I'm sure just clarified that for me. You're using Singapore thata awesome. My severly SN guys thrive under it BC ist systematic and incredmtal . That's awesome and so beneficial for the SN child. Yea, going from lateral to vertical can show discrepancies . My dysgraphia, dyscalcula guys couldn't do it for the longest time.

OhE,....calling OhE here! Ha-ha :) When reading about the second dc, OT is going to be essential here IMO. This brings us deeper into how the federal law reads ( States try to tell homeschoolers all the time, u dibt qualify BC you homeschool.) But, I think the federal law reads, we get to use their services under the federal moneies all PS get. I could be wrong BC I mix the 2 up. But here's what happens. For a child labeled SN through the PS , and the label comes based on therapy needed. Get one therapy through PS and that child will fall under *their * classification of SN because....thats how they get federal moneies . It's all politics . So say you are * enrolled * in ps and receive just 1 therapy . that attaches an SN *label* loosley termed....to qualify for more federal money. The difference in what they get fir nt kids and SN kids is literally HUGE. O forget the exact #'s and I'm sure they've changed (gone up) since I last checked . But an example would be.... My DC the PS gets 300.$ per child. The SN child the PS receives 1200.$ Thats a huge jump in money . That's why they want you enrolled and will tell you they have to be enrolled. The important part here is this: For every homeschooler that receives therapies the PS doesn't get that 1200. Ticket price for the homeschool child BC they aren't enrolled . BUT , the federal monies they receive from the feds... Allow us use of those services . Why: because it's OUR rax dollars paying for it . every homeschooler alive, saves the PS big dollars. They STILL get the tax money from we taxpayers. But, we aren't using their recourses so that is a huge savings for the PS. Our tax dollars are paid into it, and divied uo between the PS. Our not being enrolled, gives them our tax dollar money..toward the kids that ARE enrolled. I'm thinking more and more as I talk and memory coming back about it. That you are entitled to therapies under FEDERAL law. Again, deds Trump state. They will sho homeschoolers the state law....they count in the fact that the homeschooler won't know...the FEDERAL law, and that it trumps state. OhE needs to chime in here and clarify what you get under federal and state doesn't matter. Thwy write aws all the time that contradict federal hoping they wint be called on it by the gen pop. OhE , OhE...where for art tho OhE lol. :) humor. Gotta have it when we have lil sweetpea like ours :)

Yes, I've heard from moms about some pretty ingenious things dancing bears offers. Their kids did really good with the program . I haven't used it. So, I understand , does your state not offer homeschooler use of the PS therapists? I always get it confused on how the federal law (trumps state) goes. I'm thinking, under the *federal monies * the ps's get, we as homeschoolers are allowed therapies through the PS . OhE knows , she can keep that straight . I mix up which way it goes. I'm going to read about the second dc now. I really encourage you to try the whiteboard thing. It hones In on and targets much. And can give you a really specialized attack to help that kiddo. I'm thinking tho, the therapies fall under federal and you can use them, again , that's one that I mix up which way it goes . Gonna read second now.