Wow, thank you Peter Pan and Story Girl! Lots of good and helpful info in here that I’m excited to look into. Many thanks!

I will check that out- convenient way to “test drive” it. Thanks! SaraLyn

Interesting that a couple of you had the same observations about why Saxon can be causing some of the issues, or at least exacerbating them. Thanks for your feedback! SaraLyn

Great insights, this is very helpful! Thanks!!!

Yes, 🙂 I know dyslexia isn’t a math problem per se, but the learning challenges that cause dyslexia affect math learning too! My 12 year old (7th grade) dyslexic daughter struggles with new concepts, and takes lots of repetition to remember how to do new things in math. This has slowed our progress down greatly. She is currently about halfway through Saxon 6/5 and it has worked well for her because it gives lots of practice. However, we’ve definitely tweaked the way we use it, because it takes SO MUCH TIME- especially for her. She is my fifth child, and watching two of my older children hit a wall once they hit Saxon pre-algebra or algebra is making me think I will need to find a different program for her. The amount of work was overwhelming for these two who may have been slow processors/ ADD, but were not dyslexic (or at least not severely) on top of it. The problem is, both of those children decided to go to public school for high school, where they thrived in math, but I have no idea what to do with this child at home for a curriculum that won’t take her hours and hours to complete each day. Both of my boys had math teachers who assigned much less homework than Saxon ever does, yet they both did well. She will have different challenges than they did, but I’m hoping some of you have some experience/advice for me on this. We may be able to stick it out through pre-algebra in Saxon if that’s what is necessary to complete that level of math without leaving gaps before we jump ship, but I really think Saxon algebra will be too much. But I’m open to suggestions with Saxon as well. Thanks!

Thank you! No formal evaluation yet because of cost. We went straight to remediation with an at home program because symptoms were so obvious. She definitely has weak working memory, but it is improving. I don’t think she has dyscalculia based on symptoms, but not sure. She’s pretty good at getting concepts, she just can’t keep it all in her head, so it takes a lot of repetition. We will apply for evaluation through the school system soon. It’s not as thorough, but it’s free.

Yes, 🙂 I know dyslexia isn’t a math problem per se, but the learning challenges that cause dyslexia affect math learning too! My 12 year old (7th grade) dyslexic daughter struggles with new concepts, and takes lots of repetition to remember how to do new things in math. This has slowed our progress down greatly. She is currently about halfway through Saxon 6/5 and it has worked well for her because it gives lots of practice. However, we’ve definitely tweaked the way we use it, because it takes SO MUCH TIME- especially for her. She is my fifth child, and watching two of my older children hit a wall once they hit Saxon pre-algebra or algebra is making me think I will need to find a different program for her. The amount of work was overwhelming for these two who may have been slow processors/ ADD, but were not dyslexic (or at least not severely) on top of it. The problem is, both of those children decided to go to public school for high school, where they thrived in math, but I have no idea what to do with this child at home for a curriculum that won’t take her hours and hours to complete each day. Both of my boys had math teachers who assigned much less homework than Saxon ever does, yet they both did well. She will have different challenges than they did, but I’m hoping some of you have some experience/advice for me on this. We may be able to stick it out through pre-algebra in Saxon if that’s what is necessary to complete that level of math without leaving gaps before we jump ship, but I really think Saxon algebra will be too much. But I’m open to suggestions with Saxon as well. Thanks!

Really great suggestions, thanks Momto6inIN and Roy Speed!

Hi, I'm wondering what suggestions people have for a fun, engaging resources to teach better reading and note taking skills to a young high schooler. My son, who is quite bright, struggles a lot with attention and doesn’t listen/engage very well in co-op classes or retain what he reads. He did pretty well before content became more difficult and time consuming, but is really struggling now. Any suggestions in how to strengthen these skills in ways that would be palatable to a teen boy who would rather not be doing schoolwork? ;)

My mom had a Davis trained tutor work with my dyslexic sister years ago, after she had learned to get by in reading but still struggled in school and life (she wasn't diagnosed til junior high). I see the value in what they do, and I may incorporate some of those methods, but with my limited knowledge, I think other methods are more comprehensive of all of the needs. My mom felt like it helped my sister immensely, and I think it did. She is still a slow reader and college work is difficult for her, though, but that may be par for the course for a dyslexic.

You are right, that is definitely a huge part of the problem, as up to this point I was just going with materials not meant for a struggling reader. We have isolated the skills only through doing lists meant to drill for fluency. Besides one or two Bob books that focus on silent e, her readers haven't been specifically focused on that skill. I can definitely see the value of specific focus in the phonics work and readers that you describe in HN. I think she has cvc pretty well mastered judging by which words she stumbles on now, but the next levels are really inconsistent. And I can tell by your very helpful thorough description of HN that we have not done that degree of attention to any level, thus the difficulties we are having. We went through the Bob books and worked on a Phyllis Schlafly phonics book, which worked really quite well for my other kids (in fact, I had two boys that hardly used the phonics reader because thy got it so fast with the Bob books that they didn't want to be bothered with 'all the steps'), so my point isn't that HN wouldn't work, in fact my original worry was that because she hadn't mastered several of the rules she already has 'learned' that she wouldn't do well with a rules based curriculum. What I see now is that is taught both the rules and the repetition in a less effective way than she needs.

Yes, just did-- it was great! So helpful!

[quote name="Pen" I wanted my ds to be able to read English. HN was great for him. It gave him his start and a method to achieve fluency. To me, that is what reading is all about, not about being able to tell about 'magic e,' nor having to stop and think through the rules as one works on decoding..." I completely agree, however what I mean by "she forgets magic e" is that she can't decode it correctly. Or remember it at sight.... After over a year. We've practiced it in lists, we've practiced it in context... Sometimes she gets it, but not usually without help. And to whomever said ther child couldn't remember 'am' after decoding it multiple times in the same sitting, that was my daughter about a year ago. She's progressed, but it's SLOW!

I'm inclined to just try Barton and if it doesn't work, then I now have lots of other options or supplements to help! What a wealth of information and knowledge is in this group!! Thank you so much for your help, support, experience, and wisdom. If people still have comments, I'm still interested. I've learned so much from this discussion!

I'm no longer worried about the cost. It seems like a good idea to do Bartlon if I'm doing OG. Now I just have to figure out if that's the best route.

I can tell I don't hang out on these forums enough-- I can't figure out how to copy the way y'all do, but in response to Pen: "My ds at around same age and with similar description in terms of not doing well with rules (but he was a virtual complete nonreader at 8), did extremely well with HighNoon (www.highnoon.com): Reading Intervention program and Sound Out Chapter Books. Your dd may be past the Reading Intervention stage if she can read some 3&4 (grade?) level chapter books. However, if she still has trouble with CVCe words, then possibly it would still help and the Sound Out Chapter books or other readers might help. My ds did not do well with "rules" type learning, and the HN system was oriented toward practicing patterns over and over in context in order to get to fluency. My ds used all the available Chapter books at first, reading them multiple times until he was fluent at that level, and then moving to the next group. That is he first read all 9 available books that had CVC words at least 3 times each, then he read the 9 available books that had CVCe and other long consonant words at least 3 times each, and so on. In his case he was also working through the Intervention program at the same time, so the two things reinforced each other. All of the stuff I keep reading talks about how important it is for dyslexics to have explicit, rule- based phonics, and I totally understand why, but I do keep wondering if she'll even be able to remember the rules. How can dyslexics who have trouble with rote memory remember all the rules? For instance, I have taught her about magic e, but she struggles with it every time. Barton and AAR both claim that they teach them memorably, and maybe the key is the specific teaching techniques. And this High Noon sounds like it might be good for her, but is it explicit enough? I am beginning to see the value in an evaluation if it can help me figure out how to accommodate the various challenges. I did just find and download on the talking fingers website a series of spelling rules songs that I bet will help her-- songs make everything memorable. She tried the sample games on that site yesterday and loved them-- a great supplement.

Oh Elizabeth, I have used RS B to supplement her Saxon. Have not used it religiously, as Saxon takes so much less time, (and I was spending so much time on reading), but it helped her to conceptualize counting and addition facts. And very interesting observation, geodob. Good things to consider. I'm starting to lean toward just using a good curriculum without testing, thinking that that will help all the weaknesses, but your thoughts sound like if we did testing to identify specific issues, we may better be able to target the treatment?

Wow, such very helpful advice from everyone! Thank you so much for taking the time to post such thoughtful replies. If anyone has a minute, in addition to feedback about the value of testing, I would love to know what has helped people the most for dyslexia related math challenges as well. I've used a combo of Saxon and RightStart so far with good success, but I only bought the first level of RightStart and I understand that multiplication facts is where it can get really sticky with all of the rote memory.

I wonder in retrospect if my oldest is slightly dyslexic for a variety of reasons. We did FLL and Easy Grammar, and he hit middle school and couldn't tell you what any of the parts of speech were (though he was a good writer and spoke correctly), but I can't say he did a stellar job on those sections of standardized tests . But doing Daily Grammar Practice by Dawn Burdette has helped all of my kids retain the grammar they learned better. It has less explicit instruction, but more applied, regular review of all the grammar topics by analyzing and diagramming sentences every day.

Level 1-2 Chapter books, depending on the books, even 3 or 4. She read and loved Frog and Toad books and Little Bear, and they were fairly easy for her; some other books that claim to be that level were disastrous. We've just rediscovered the Christian Liberty Press Robinson Crusoe Reader which she loved and was highly motivated to read, but she still isn't fluent at it, though it's decodable and gives lots of practice on tricky words.

Just read your post, lovinmama, right after I posted mine . My goodness, you could've been describing my daughter! Exactly those issues!

Oops, forgot to reply about what I'm looking for-- just a reading and spelling curriculum.

I am in the process of getting her evaluation set up. She is not reading fluently. Sometimes she'll surprise me and read fairly fluently, and other times she stumbles on every single word. She has most of the classic symptoms and other related ones: she forgets short "easy" words regularly, has learned the magic e rule (long vowels) hundreds of times, but still doesn't usually remember it automatically, struggled a great deal to learn letters and accompanying sounds as well as numbers, has a hard time with rote memorization and needs context or something memorable (and therefore counting and skip counting have been really tricky), etc. I wonder a little bit if the evaluation will tell me anything I haven't already noticed. A lady on my local listserve told me her daughter's eval wasn't particularly helpful except to validate her observations, so I'm also curious for feedback on the value of formal evaluations if you have observed these issues and have good resources for thorough instruction anyway. My oldest two children struggled a little with some of these things, but quickly became good readers; the next two practically taught themselves to read. So this is my first really hard work experience with teaching reading. But she, as is common, is very bright, creative, and talented. Also, my youngest sister is dyslexic, so yes, there is some family history.

I have a 8 y.o. dyslexic daughter and am a little overwhelmed by the choices for curricula. We've made some decent progress without any specialized curriculum, but in our struggling I've done a little research and am wondering if I need something better. I've heard good things about PAL from IEW, All About Reading, Spell to Read and Write, and now on this board I keep seeing everyone discussing Barton. It looks excellent, but pricey, and I feel like if I need that much teacher support, I'm willing to get it, but I'm not sure I do. She is reading chapter books, but very slowly and not at all independently. I think we need even more thorough phonics than we've done, and a lot of fluency practice. I had 'moved on' to just reading practice with her without so much phonics, thinking she'd gotten it, and seeing her get confused by all the rules, and thought maybe just the practice reading over and over was the best thing. It actually has been very good for her, but she has never just 'taken off' and become a reader like my other kids did. Would anyone be able to share their experiences with good Dyslexia friendly curricula? Thanks! SaraLyn Mom of 7, #5 is the dyslexic

I have used Saxon for all of our homeschooling career, and both of my oldest two have gotten really bogged down especially when we hit Algebra 1. The oldest would spend hours and hours and hours getting overwhelmed by how much work there was. We tried Teaching Textbooks, but he panicked when it was so easy, because he wanted to be prepared for public school in high school. By his choice, we (painfully) finished Saxon, and he hit public school and has had a wonderful math experience. He's good at it, and has had very little homework, yet has done very well on the county's supposedly very rigorous tests. We've thought a lot about the fact that he was able to do so well with minimal homework (his first two teachers commented that they only believe in enough homework to achieve mastery-- he hated Saxon, but loved public school math), but also wondered if he's done well because of the rigorous preparation Saxon has given. In any case, my homeschooled just-finished-9th grade daughter has just completed Algebra 1 and is about 30 lessons into Saxon geometry, and while she isn't so math resistant as he was at home, Saxon math takes her so long to teach herself the concept and do it that she is getting further and further behind our math goals. This is in large part due to the fact that she has rigorous homework with deadlines for outside teachers, so spending hours on math each day isn't practical. Yes, public school is an option, but there are definite trade-offs at our school. At the moment, signing her up for a outside class isn't an option, but may be in future years. I feel like Saxon math is kind of math 'insurance' for me-- I know it is thorough and rigorous, but getting further and further behind is not sustainable for us. Does anyone have any suggestions for curriculums that will prepare her well without quite so much time investment? Teaching Textbooks should take less time, but I'm concerned about its ability to prepare her for standardized tests, college, etc. Is it still the best bet? What are your experiences? Is it possible to be well prepared with a little less time each day? Anyone have experience with Math-U-See? Part of the problem is how long (even with Saxon's teacher DVD roms) it takes her to understand the concept. I'd love to have something solid that has video teaching directed at her, not at me. Thanks for any advice you have to offer! SaraLyn