Yes, I did. I'm a very visual person so charts, tables, lists, etc. are very helpful to me.

O.k. Thanks again.

I appreciate you saying this. You're right, sometimes we hear "less rigor" and we think "too easy" or "not as good". Sometimes I hear "rigorous" and I think "burn out" . What appeals to me about MFW is that I think she'll enjoy it and it'll leave some room for her to follow other passions. I could always add more books too. Thank again, for the encouragement.?

Thank you. This does help. I went to the "Buy the Books for Year 1" tab and I'm guessing the books I would need are the ones that say "rhetoric" and "history". Would I also need the "Y1U1" books? I guess I should call them. Thanks again for the info. This helps a lot.

I'm wondering if it's because you have to add math and science to MFW and maybe the others include everything? Just a thought.

Thank you, Lori D.! I didn't know all of this was out there. Thank you for taking the time to type it all out. I really appreciate it.?

Thank you for your response. I will copy and save it for future reference:) History is my daughter's favorite subject so she will study history all four years regardless of what path she takes. The 4th edition of TWTM does an excellent job guiding parents on how to list the course descriptions and credits on transcripts when studying history TWTM way. I guess what I'm looking for is a program that will be challenging, will prepare my daughter well for college, and is also fun. We have always studied history "TWTM" way and she has learned a ton but it's been a little dry and a lot of work. I want her to enjoy her last for years in our homeschool as well as be well prepared for college. Thanks again for your response

I've never used TOG. Someone else suggested My Father's World so I'm looking at that one too. I've heard from others that TOG can be a little difficult to figure out. Looking at MFW, it looks like there are only 6 books covered for literature. I guess I could always add a few more. Thanks for your response.

Thank you for sharing this.

This fall I will have my first high school student. I would like to follow TWTM recommendations but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. I'm playing around with the idea of purchasing a box curriculum for my ninth grader that will teach history chronologically over 4 years. I'm looking at Tapestry of Grace but I was wondering if there are other programs out there similar to TOG that I can look at and compare. Also, what are your recommendations: TWTM for high school or packaged curriculum? Advice, suggestions, things to consider with both. I looked at TOG briefly today and it looks like they have the student read "sections" only of some of the literature selections whereas, TWTM recommends the entire book. I appreciate your advice. Thank you. Lily

We do math 5 days a week. Investigations get their own day and tests get their own day.

I have the 4th edition of TWTM and Modern Times: The World from the Twenties to the Nineties by Paul Johnson is one of the books recommended as a basic text but there are three others: 1) Asia: A Concise History by Arthur Cotterell 2) Europe: A History. A Glorious Chronicle of Europe, From Kings to Peasants, From the Urals to the Faroes by Norman Davies 3) Modern Times: The World from the Twenties to the Nineties by Paul Johnson 4) America: A Narrative History, Brief (10th Edition) It looks like you would need all 4 to cover modern world history. We haven't made it to this period of history for the rhetoric stage yet so I can't tell you much about the books themselves. Hope this helps.? Lily

Also, did you purchase the digital courseware student license?

Thanks for responding. Which components did you buy? My understanding is that there is the student text, teacher text, student lab book, teacher lab book plus the lab kit.

What is everyone using for high school Biology? The 4th edition of TWTM recommends Miller & Levine Biology but it's a little pricey ($285) plus I would have to order lab materials in addition to the books. Is it worth the cost? If you used this program, what did you purchase and what has been your experience? If you used something else, what was it and how did you like it? Thank you.

We use the formal reading list recommended in TWTM that coincides with our history study.

We used this program a few years ago and we enjoyed it very much. I still look back at that year with fondness, however, I left because of some of the same concerns that you have: are my kids getting enough, grammar, writing, and science instruction? The thing is that Paths of Exploration is wildly different, you may even be able to say opposite, from The Well Trained Mind Classical philosophy of education. POE believes students should learn American history first. TWTM recommends students learn history chronologically. POE teaches spelling, grammar, writing, and science in an integrated method, kind of like a unit study, whereas TWTM promotes teaching the skills subjects (not science) in a systematic way without skipping anything. As you know, TWTM recommends studying one field of science for an entire year vs. a few weeks on life science, a few weeks on physical science, and a few weeks on Earth science. My advice to you is this, revisit the goals you have for you students, re-evaluate what educational philosophy makes that most sense to you and go with that. You can either continue with the TWTM method of education and find ways to streamline it. Maybe ask here on the board how people teach spelling, writing, grammar, etc. to multiple students, you know, what everyone's schedule looks like. Or, you can go with POE and use it as is without adding anything to it except for math. There is A LOT to POE. You will be working on it all day because it does cover so much. I tried to supplement like you're thinking of doing and our days seemed never ending. POE is pricey but the books selections are excellent. If you decide to go that route, I highly recommend jumping in with both feet, resist the temptation to doubt whether or not you're doing enough, resist the temptation to add to it and just use it as intended and enjoy it. Your kids will be fine. At that end of that year you can re-evaluate. I'm curious to know what method of education you've been using so far and why are you looking to change/tweak that? I know you mentioned that you want to keep your kids together as much as possible and that you want to be more consistent with science. Are there any other changes you'd like to see happen? What aspect of your current method of homeschooling is working?

Hello, I need a recommendation for an unabridged dictionary. What's the standard? Thanks.

Language Arts study includes: *Reading: Skills (this is learning to read, developing fluency, developing reading stamina), *Reading: Literature (these are the Great Books that coincide with your history study), Spelling, Writing, Grammar, and Handwriting. Language Arts Subjects Kindergarten 1st Grade 2nd Grade 3rd Grade 4th Grade Reading: Skills *This is teaching your child to read using a primer like Ordinary Parent’s Guide to Teaching Reading, Teaching Your Child to Reading in 100 Easy Lessons, All About Reading, etc. *This will include a phonics workbook like MCP Plaid Phonics or Explode the Code *This also includes using Phonetic Readers like Bob Books then later beginning chapter books like Frog and Toad *The next stage would be reading longer chapter books like The Boxcar Children, The Littles, Stone Fox, etc. *Begin primer *LOTS of read alouds *Nursery Rhymes *Songs *MCP Plaid Phonics (2011) – Level K *Continue with the reading primer *Add phonetic readers when child is ready (may happen in kindergarten) *LOTS of read alouds *MCP Plaid Phonics (2011) – Level A *Continue with the reading primer (*Primer is usually finished in the 2nd grade but continue in the 3rd grade until complete) *MCP Plaid Phonics (2011) – Level B *Begin short chapter books when child is ready (may happen before 2nd grade). The books selected should be at the student’s “instructional level” meaning they should be slightly challenging but not to the point of frustration. *LOTS of read alouds Continue with the reading primer until finished *MCP Plaid Phonics (2011) – Level C *Child may (or may not) be ready for longer chapter books. The books selected should be at the student’s “instructional level” meaning they should be slightly challenging but not to the point of frustration. *Student continues to read books slight challenging books. *You won’t continue with MCP Plaid Phonics level D because the activities in Spelling Workout will begin to overlap with this (if you go with Spelling Workout) Reading: Literature *This is the list of Great Books that you choose to read that coincide with your history study *Parent/Teacher reads the Great Books to the student. *Parent/Teacher reads the Great Books to the student. *Student may be able to start reading some of the Great Books on his/her own. Student reads some of the Great Books on his/her own. Student reads the Great Books on his/her own. Writing *This includes, copywork, narration, dictation Writing With Ease Level 1 – There is only one book to purchase. Teacher book and student pages are all in one book. Writing With Ease Level 2 – Teacher book and student pages are all in one book. Writing With Ease Level 3 – Teacher book and student pages are all in one book. Writing With Ease Level 4 – Teacher book and student pages are all in one book. Grammar First Language Lessons Level 1 – There is only one book to purchase. First Language Lessons Level 2 – There is only one book to purchase. First Language Lessons Level 3 – Teacher book and student workbook are separate. You need both, in my opinion. First Language Lessons Level 4 – Teacher book and student workbook are separate. You need both, in my opinion. Spelling Spelling Workout Levels A & B (This is per SWB recommendation with the goal of completing all levels by the end of 6th grade Spelling Workout C & D Spelling Workout E Spelling Workout F Handwriting Zaner-Bloser Level K *You don’t need the Teacher’s editions for any of the levels. Zaner-Bloser – Grade 1 Zaner-Bloser – Grade 2 Zaner-Bloser – Grade 3 Zaner-Bloser – Grade 4 *SWB says that skills subjects like phonics instruction, spelling, and grammar should be taught systematically (in order) and without skipping any levels. I don’t know what grade your kids are in. The most I would skip with your 9 year old in regard to grammar would be levels 1 & 2 because they are pretty repetative. You may also be able to skip levels A & B with spelling (your call). As far as the reading primer (phonics instruction) goes, SWB highly recommends that yo finish whichever primer you started. She says parent may be tempted to stop the phonics instruction when reading clicks for the student and the take off. She says that often these kids never learn the skills needed to read harder, multi-syllable words and reading issues can develop later because of this. Hope this helps.

I am looking for a pen pal for my 6 year old son (will be in the second grade in the fall) and my 7 year old daughter (will be in the 3rd grade in the fall). We live in Texas and would love to find pen pals from a different state. Please message me if you're interested. Thank you.

Never mind. Scratch that request. There are more pages missing than just those two. I'm just going to order a new book. Thanks.

I purchased a used copy of the Saxon Math 3 Teacher's Edition and I discovered this morning that lessons 60 and 61 are missing! Would anyone who uses Saxon Math 3 (original set-not the new one) mind sending me a picture of those two lessons? Or does anyone have other suggestions of what I may be able to do until I can purchase a new copy? Also, is there a way that you can message me privately (not sure now to do that on this site) and I can send you my phone # for the pics. This is a lot to ask, I know. I really appreciate your help. Thanks

What you can do with Saxon 8/7 or whichever program you decide to go with is, have her take the test and the end of each chapter/section/unit. So long as she does well on the test, you move on to the test for the next chapter. You keep going until she takes a test she is no longer passing. You then have her start the book in the chapter that she starts having trouble in. For example, let's say you have her take the tests for chapters 1-12 (in whichever book you go with) and she does well (85+ or whatever level of mastery feels right to you). Then, let's say you have her take the chapter 13 test and she scores a 70. You would then have her start the book at chapter 13. This way you are not going ALL the way back to the beginning. I'm doing a terrible job of explaining this. I hope it makes some sense. Have her take one test a day, unless she completes a test in 20 minutes and you think she can handle another one. Just an idea. Hope it helps.

Some time ago, I shared what we do for our history during the logic stage. I'll copy it here and hope it's helpful. This is how logic stage history study looks in our home. If you are using a separate writing curriculum then the writing your student does for history and science will be less. They should still write across those subjects, but not as much. If the writing your student does for history, science, and literature is your writing curriculum, then they should be doing more it. In the 4th edition of TWTM, SWB says that the focus of logic stage writing is to order ideas. "Students need to continue to practice narrative summaries, learn how to write brief critical responses to literature, and--above all--learn to outline." (p. 450). This means that a logic stage student should be writing narrative summaries and outlines in grades 5th-8th. SWB also says that we should consider how much overall writing your student is doing in a given week, before you assign writing in history and science. For example, we use Writing With Skill as our writing curriculum. Some days, her assignment was to simply read a passage. On those days, I would assign a 3/4-1 page narrative summary or report in history or science. Some days she would have to write one and a half page paper for WWS. On those days/weeks, I would only assign a one paragraph narrative summary or report. Regarding outlines, I have my daughter write an outline once a week and we alternate between history and science. If she is writing an outline for history this week, then she won't write one for science. The following week she'll write an outline for science but not for history. This ensures that she writes at least one outline every week. The outlining progression SWB recommends is the following: 5th Grade • 1-Level Outline of one page (or 5-6 paragraph section ) of text 6th Grade • 2-Level Outline of 1-2 pages (or 5-10 paragraphs) of text 7th Grade • 3-Level Outline of 3 pages of text 8th Grade • 3-Level Outline of 3-4 pages of text This is simply to show the progression. A student may be ready to write two-level outlines in the 5th grade. You, as the teacher, progress them to the next level as they become ready. I will copy a sample schedule for you to look at below but I do want to clarify one thing. My daughter doesn't always read an entire library book. For example, if she wanted to write about how John Rolfe grew tobacco, I would have her read the pages from the library book that provide that information and nothing else, UNLESS, it was a book I felt she should read in its entirety. She reads a lot for literature, history, science, self-selected reading, as well as for a separate literature class she is taking. It isn't always realistic for her to read every library book we check out. I apologize for the length of this post. When I was first starting out with the logic stage I wanted and needed a lot of details and examples. I'll end this post with a sample schedule of what our weekly history study looks like. I hope this helps and doesn't overwhelm you:) Monday Late Renaissance – early Modern (1600-1850) Chapter 8: The Middle of the East □ SOTW Vol. 3 – Section 1: “The Persian Puzzle”, pp. 81-84. (I have grammar stage students as well so we read this together then my 7th grader goes off and does her assigned work) □ KIHW: Safavid Persia, pp. 346-347 (This is the Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World. We have several history encyclopedias and I'll assign reading from the one I think provides the best information. If they're all pretty close to the same on a given topic, we'll use the Kingfisher History of the World) □ Facts: List 6-8 of the most important facts, in your own words and in complete sentences. □ Summary Write a ½-1 page long summary on the Safavid Dynasty (some times I assign topics and some times I let her choose) □ Map Work: Complete the map activity for student map p. 23 (She does the same map work activities assigned in the SOTW activity guide that my grammar stage students do but I give her a blank map to label. She does this without referring to an atlas. When she's done, she compares her map to the an atlas or a map that I've labeled and then makes any necessary corrections. I also have her label additional locations that I think are important. Finally, she locates the area under study on a wall map, globe, and atlas. Tuesday □ SOTW Vol. 3 – Section 2: “The Ottoman Turks”, pp. 84-88. □ Additional Reading: The Ottoman Empire by Adriane Ruggiero (she could choose to write about "Ottoman Cities and Towns" or "The Decline of the Ottoman Empire", etc.) □ Brief Summary: Write a summary on the Ottoman Empire (whichever topic she chose above) Wednesday □ Time Line: Add important dates to your time line along with the accompanying caption (we get these dates from the SOTW or the Kngfisher Encyclopedia) □ Additional Reading: Countries of the World: Iran □ Outline: Select two pages from your reading and write a three-level outline □ Additional Activities: Sometimes we'll watch a YouTube video, do an an activity/craft for the SOTW activity guide, cook, watch a movie, dress up, field trip, etc. One last thing, I don't have my daughter re-write summaries or outlines. I'll make editing marks and discuss things with her as necessary. If there is something she needs to work on, for example transitioning from one paragraph to the next, I have her focus on that on the next piece she rights. I hope that makes sense.?

Thank you for your response. No, SWB doesn't suggest an edition. You're right, the organization is hard to parse. I'll look where you suggested. Thanks again.