I would also recommend reading aloud to her daily. I think big kids still enjoy being read to:)

Hi there, First I want to say that I agree with the other moms, you can do this. In my personal opinion, I think bringing your son home would be the best thing, not the easiest, but the best. He obviously needs discipline but, take courage, all children need discipline. Children push back about everything at this age. Your son is resisting your demands, expectations, rules, etc. because that's what kids do at this age, not because you're a bad mom or failing in some way. I'm not divorced, but I can image that guilt would affect my parenting at times. There have been many times where guilt or fear have clouded my judgement and led me to make less that wise parenting decisions. But give yourself grace. We're all right there with you, falling and getting back up again, feeling fear and doubt and moving forward anyway. You're doing a good job. That's why you're asking for help and encouragement here on this forum. That's what wise and loving mothers do. They ask for help when they need it. You're doing the right thing. You're doing a good job. You're son, all of our children, will recognize it and acknowledge it some day. Now to the more practical advice. You're son does need to take ownership of his education but he still may need help with some of his subjects. I would suggest you give him choices when possible. "Do you want to study this period of history or that one? Do want to work on writing Monday, Wednesday and Friday or Tuesday and Thursday." Then explain the non-negotiables. There is a podcast by Susan Wise Bauer called "Teaching Students to Work Independently". You can find it here https://peacehillpress.com/c/resources-for-parents/audio-workshops/ Learning to work independently and learning to take ownership of their education is something that needs to be taught which means it's something that can be taught. Hopefully this encouraged you. God bless you, homeschool mama. You're doing a great job!

That's probably the correct way to view outlining if the purpose for outlining is as a note taking method in order to learn the content. From my understanding, the purpose of outlining, according to how it's recommended in TWTM, is "to prepare the student for more advanced composition. As he moves into high school, he'll need to know how to write his own history essays from an outline. Before he can do this, however, he needs to study the outlines of other writers. The best and simplest way to do this is to create an outline from a finished piece of writing" (TWTM, 3rd ed., p. 283) In Writing With Skill level 1 SWB explains, "Instead of immediately starting to write compositions, the student will begin by working on skills that need to be in place before she begins to write. Writing involves two difficult tasks. First, the student has to decide what she's writing about--the general topic, the information to include, and where to find that information. Second, the student must put that information into correct order before setting it down on paper...Outlining helps the student put information in the correct order; once she has ordered her facts, she can begin to write about them." (WWS Level 1, Instructor Guide, p. xxv) "...before you start to write your own compositions, you will study how other writers organize their work--what order they put their information in. You will learn how to outline their work --how to note down the main idea in each section of their compositions. This will teach you the basic skills of outlining. When you then begin to write your own works, outlining will help you put your information down in the correct order." (WWS Level 1, Student Workbook, p. 2) Students who outline their history and science passages are definitely going to learn the content better, but that's a secondary goal to how outlining seems to be recommended in TWTM, according to how I understand it. I guess it comes down to what our goals as parent/teachers are for each assignment. Like someone else on the forum said, we don't want these assignments to be busy work :001_smile: . Great discussions. I enjoy reading others' take on different topics.

In TWTM they include a schedule as a general guideline for the amount of time a student should/could spend on a subject. They listed 1 1/2 hour of science study, two days per week for a 6th grader. This would be a total of 3 hours a week or 108 per school year if the school year is 36 weeks long, which is the average. We tend to spend closer to 4 hours a week on science. I think your the hours you calculated are reasonable, in my opinion. You'll have to consider the student work load in his other subjects as well. Hope this helps.

Hi there, I own TWTM 3rd edition, we use WWS, and I listened to the "Writing in the Middle Grades" podcast. My understanding is that a logic stage student does not write from an outline until they've mastered writing a three-level outline, which generally happens in the 8th grade. In the 5th grade, the student is to master writing one-level outlines, in the 6th grade the student is to master writing two-level outlines, and in the 7th grade the student is to master three-level outlines. In the 8th grade the student writes a three-level outline of a longer passage, puts the original passage away, re-writes the passage from the outline, and finally, compares his re-written passage to the original passage. When outlining, every Roman numeral is a paragraph (every Roman numeral, subpoints, and supporting details). In the 5th grade, since they are only working on one-level outlines and, therefore, will not have the subpoints and details, they won't be able to re-write the passage. Again, a student should not be writing from an outline until they have mastered three-level outlines, which generally happens in the 8th grade. I don't know how far into WWS level one you're in, but when you reach the lessons on outlining, you'll see it does an excellent job of explaining how to do it. I've taken what I've read about outlining in TWTM and in WWS and I've created a table that gives me a visual of the progression. I'll copy it below. Susan Wise Bauer stated in her talk on Middle School Writing that she pegged these outlining recommendations to each grade simply to show the progression. This means that a 5th grader could very well master one-level outlines half way through the year and be ready for two-level outlines before 6th grade. The key is not to advance the student to the next step until they've mastered the previous one. Also: * There is more than one "correct" way to outline any given writing--Don't allow the student to get too hung up on finding the "right" answers. * Outlining is merely a tool to uncover the progression of thought in a piece. * If the student struggles with outlining a particular resource, it is possible that the book itself is either badly written or written in "encyclopedic" form (many main points packed into single paragraphs of text). If this is the case, she recommends you put it (the text) away and try outlining from a different book. This is the table I've created to help me organize the outlining progression for the logic stage. It's not complete. My daughter will be going into the 7th grade next year so I'll be adding to it as we go. Hope this helps. Lily Writing Outlines – Logic Stage 5th Grade • 1-Level Outline of one page (or 5-6 paragraph section ) of text History Passage I. Roman numeral □ The main idea of each paragraph should be clearly identified and assigned a Roman numeral. □ Each main point (Roman numeral) should answer the following questions: 1) What is the main thing or person that the paragraph is about? (or, is the section about an idea?) 2) Why is that thing or person important?(or, what did that thing or person do/what was done to it? Or, what is the idea?) Science Passage I. Roman numeral □ The main idea of each paragraph should be clearly identified and assigned a Roman numeral. □ Each main point (Roman numeral) should answer the following questions: 1) What is being described or defined in this paragraph? 2) Is there a central thing that is most important about it? 6th Grade • 2-Level Outline of 1-2 pages (or 5-10 paragraphs) of text History Passage I. Roman numeral (see 5th grade) A. Capital Letter Subpoint □ Each capital-letter subpoint provides a specific piece of information that relates directly to the main idea. □ Each subpoint answers the question, “What additional information does the paragraph give me about each of the people, things, or ideas in the main point?†□ The information was written in student’s own words. Science Passage I. Roman numeral (see 5th grade) A. Capital Letter Subpoint □ Each capital-letter subpoint provides a specific piece of information that relates directly to the main idea. □ Each subpoint answers the question, “What additional information does the paragraph give me about each of the people, things, or ideas in the main point?†□ The information is written in student’s own words. 7th Grade • 3-Level Outline of up to 3 pages of text 1. Arabic numeral – give details about the capital letter subpoints. Student is to ask, “What else is important to know in this paragraph?†8th Grade • 3-Level Outline of 3-4 pages of text •Re-write Passage from the outline

Hi and welcome, I own The Usborne Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of World History, The Dorling Kindersley History of the World, and the National Geographic Almanac of World History. The Usborne encyclopedia a good one, but it's at about a 4th grade reading level. If you don't want to purchase different encyclopedia for each of the 4 middle grade years, the Kingfisher encyclopedia is a good one. It give more information that the Usborne. The DK History is at t a higher level and written more in essay format. I've copied a link below that leads to a discussion about history spines for the middle grades. You might find it helpful. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/567872-logic-stage-history-spine/?hl=%2Bhistory+%2Bspine&do=findComment&comment=6668230

My daughter will be in the 7th grade this upcoming school year. We'll be using Physics for the Logic Stage by Elemental Science for the first time as well. Given that this will be our first time using the program, I don't know if I'll be much help, but I'll try :001_smile: . The Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia and the Usborne Illustrated Dictionary of Science are both assigned for additional readings, meaning that they are optional. On the schedule it has the student write an outline and/or a summary of the week's reading selection from the spine, which is the DK Encyclopedia of Science (or in your case, the Usborne Internet Linked Science Encyclopedia). Then the student is to "do some additional research reading on the topic from one or more of the suggested reference books listed (The Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia and/or Usborne Ilustrated Dictionary of Science) ... Once the students complete the additional research reading, have them write a report of three or four paragraphs in length, detailing what they have learned from their research reading." (Physics for the Logic Stage, Teacher Guide, p. 9) The author explains that the Kingfisher encyclopedia is appropriate for middle school and the Usborne IDS is approaching the high school level. As far as which encyclopedia to purchase, I think you have a few options: 1) If you own an encyclopedia set such as World Book or Britannica, then you probably don't need to purchase another science encyclopedia. 2) You can use your library and check out books on the topic under study, every time you assign report writing (which won't necessarily be every week) 3) You can purchase one of the encyclopedias. I own all the encyclopedias recommended in the Elemental Physics book as well as the Usborne encyclopedia you own. If I had to choose one to go along with this curriculum, I would go with the Kingfisher. It offers a lot of information and I agree that it is appropriate for middle school. I will say, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the encyclopedias. I've been very pleased with them all. Hope this helps. Lily

I follow the guidelines in TWTM. I know you said you're familiar with the recommendations given in there, but I though I'd give you a look at a typical week at our house to give you an idea of how we do it. My student is ll years old and it the 6th grade: Monday Medieval – early Renaissance (400-1600) â–¡ SOTW Vol. 2: Chap. 30, “India Under the Moghuls†pp. 272-280. (She reads the SOTW chapter, in addition to the spine, because she didn't go through it in the grammar stage. In TWTM, SWB says, if you're doing history with multiple age children, read the SOTW together, then ask the older student to 1) read the pages from the more difficult core text that correspond to the topic in SOTW, and 2) complete the other work described. I follow these recommendation for my student who didn't go through SOTW, in the grammar stage). â–¡ Kingfisher History Encyclopedia: “India: The Moguls 1504-1605â€, pp. 218-219. â–¡ Facts: Write down 6-8 of the most important facts in complete sentences. â–¡ Additional Reading: Sometimes I'll assign a library book. It's depends on what her work load looks like for the day. Tuesday â–¡ Time Line: Mark important dates along with accompanying caption. I have her choose the most important dates in the Kingfisher encyclopedia. Sometimes I have her add all the dates. â–¡ Map Work: I give her a blank map, in a sheet protector, of the area under study and I have her label it with a dry erase marker. She does this first, without referring to an atlas to see what she knows. Then I have her look at an atlas, compare, and label and color the map. Finally, she is to locate the area under study on a wall map and globe. â–¡ Outline: Write a two-level outline on what you read in the Kingfisher encyclopedia, “India: The Moguls 1504-1605â€, pp. 218-219. â–¡ Additional Reading: If I assigned reading on Monday, she can finish that or she can start a new book, or I assign nothing (again, depending on her work load for the day) Wednesday â–¡ Additional Reading: Choose a topic to do additional reading on (or choose a topic from a book she read Monday or Tuesday). â–¡ Summary: Prepare a written summary, 1/2 to 1 page (200-400 words), in length, on the chosen topic Another thing I consider when assigning outlines and summaries is, how much writing she has to do for her writing program (Writing With Skill) that day. I also try to remind myself of what SWB says about logic stage history study, that the goal is not to do an exhaustive survey of all possible history topics, but to teach the student how to study history. Hope this helps :001_smile: .

The Well Trained Mind has an excellent reading list for modern history. It also includes a list of topics you can read about that can serve as a guide. If you don't own the book, you may be able to find it at your local library. You can find the list on page 378 of the third edition.

Welcome to homeschooling! Yes, I agree with the other people who responded. Susan Wise Bauer, the author of The Well Trained Mind, suggests that you continue with the sequence. There is not need to go back to the beginning. What's important is that you continue to move chronologically forward. She divides subjects into "skill" areas and "content" areas. Skill areas are subjects like math, grammar, and spelling. These subjects should be taught sequentially and a child should not be moved forward to the next level until they've mastered the previous one. Skill subjects build on each other. Content area subjects are history and science. The study of science and especially history is ongoing. We're never really "done" learning about history and science and so we can't really fall "behind" as we think of it. If you haven't read The Well Trained Mind, I highly recommend it. It's an excellent resource, even for families who are not homeschooling classically. She has a new edition of her book coming out in August, I believe. You can probably borrow it from local library too. Here is a link to an article on her site about what to do when you're "Starting (homeschooling) In the Middle". Hope this helps. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/older-child/ I'm so happy for you. You're gonna have a great year. Lily

There are several pages in the workbook where the student is asked to "write in the margin", "fill in the blanks", "underline", "circle", etc. The book is rather thick. It's almost 1 1/4 inch thick--544 pages long. If you plan on printing and binding the entire thing, it'll be quite a job. It may be more doable if you plan to print only the pages your student will mark/write on. They can always read the passages on the computer. The student workbook is $18.95 on the Rainbow Resources website. You may want to compare the cost of printing (ink, paper, time, wear and tear of your printer) with that of the workbook. I plant to use this program with three other children but I personally plant to purchase the workbooks again for each student. You might also want to think about whether or not you'll be printing pages/workbooks for other subjects. I hope this was helpful. I feel like I didn't give you a straight "yes" or "no" answer :001_smile: .

I remember having a little trouble finding these last year. I've searched The Critical Thinking Co. website and I didn't find them there but I did find them on the Rainbow Resources website. Here's the link http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/sku/005792 Hope this helps.

Like the other person who responded to your post, my only regret is that I didn't start homeschooling sooner. Every mom deals with doubt and insecurity when considering homeschool. It doesn't stop when you start homeschooling, but it changes. You go from wondering, "Should I homeschool" to "Why didn't I start sooner" or "Am I doing this right and am I doing enough?" I say this to encourage you. The worry and fear you're experiencing is normal. It means you're a good mom who loves her child deeply and wants to do right by her. I understand that you're feeling overwhelmed by all the things you listed above and it's normal and reasonable to feel stressed about those things. But, just like a new mom who worries about how often to nurse, when to start weaning, what are the best first foods for baby, and when to potty train, you are concerned about all of the right things, but you don't have to figure them all out right now. I hope that makes sense. If you're a praying person, I would start there. Pray for wisdom and guidance. Next, I would look into your state's homeschool laws. Once you've done that, you can start having fun. Start researching curriculum and have fun picking out great books for your child. In TWTM, Susan Wise Bauer recommends that you start at grade level with the content areas such as science and history. Meaning, you can start pretty much any where with those two subjects. She does recommend that you move chronologically forward in history. In science, you're free to start with any field that you chose or that interests your daughter. When it comes to the skill areas (math, spelling, grammar, writing) you'll want to start where she is. This means, if she's on grade level with math, then have her continue with the next level when you start school. If she struggles with math, then place her at the level she needs to be. Almost all math programs have some type of placement test. The reason SWB recommends you back up with skill levels if the child needs it, is because, skills subjects build on each other. If a child misses something or if they haven't mastered a topic, it will affect their understanding down the road. I hope this was at least somewhat helpful. Remember, opportunities for socialization and leadership will come. Once you're part of the homeschool family you'll start networking and finding out about all kinds of opportunities. Just take it one step at a time. No one knows your child and loves your better than you. Be blessed.

I highly recommend her talk on the Great Books. I almost found it a little more helpful than the middle school writing talk. They are both excellent, really. My 6th grade is reading through the recommended reading list in TWTM and writing a summary after she finishes the book that includes a 2 sentence evaluation. Each week she writes a report for science using 2 sources, 3/4- 1 pg. long, a summary on a history topic 1/2 -1 pg. long, and a 2-level outline on up to 2 pages (5-10 paragraphs) on a chosen topic.These summaries and reports have taken the place of the written narrations she did in the grammar stage. Also, she doesn't write an outline for both history and science every week. She alternates. At the beginning of the school year, I had her read for 30 minutes from a book on her list and then write a narration. In her Great Books talk, SWB emphasizes not killing their love for reading by making them write about every book they read so I cut out the daily written narrations. Hope this helps.

I'm in a similar situation in that my logic stage student didn't go through the SOTW series the first time around. She started out in public school and when we decided to homeschool we used a different curriculum. On p. 278 of TWTM, 3rd ed., SWB explains what to do when you have students in the grammar stage and in the logic stage and I apply these recommendations with my logic stage student who didn't go through the SOTW the in the grammar stage. She says, "When each student reaches the fifth grade, begin the logic stage process of outlining and keeping a time line, no matter what period of history you're in..." (TWTM, p. 278). She goes on to say, "If you are using The Story of the World series for younger children as well as educating older students, you can read the chapter from The Story of the World with all of the children together. Then ask the older students to (1) read the pages from the more difficult core text that correspond to the topic in The Story of the World, and (2) complete the other work described below." (p. 278) Then she goes on to describe what a logic stage student's history study would look like: Day 1: 1) Reading from the core history resource (encyclopedia), 2) Make a list of 6-8 facts in complete sentences, 3) Mark all dates on the time line; find locations on the globe, the wall map, and in the atlas. Day 2: 1) Do additional reading on one or two chose topics, using library books or books recommended in the Resources list. Pick one resource and outline a section. Day 3: 1) Prepare a written summary of the information on the chosen topic. The length of the section that is outlined and the length of the summary vary for each logic stage grade. Again, these are recommendations she gives for when you have students in different stages but I use them for my student who didn't read The Story of the World in the grammar stage. I have her read a chapter in SOTW, the corresponding section in the encyclopedia, then she completes the work above I also assign some of the reading recommendations provided in the SOTW activity guide that I think she would benefit from and we do related crafts if she's interested. Hope this helps. :001_smile:

SWB recommends you aim to complete all levels of Spelling Workout by the end of the 6th grade so that you can begin a vocabulary program in the 7th grade. She says, "Ideally, you'll finish Spelling Workout H by the end of the sixth-grade year, which will free up the seventh- and eight- grade years for the study of advanced vocabulary and word roots." (TWTM, 3rd ed., p. 338). On. p. 337 she has included the following table as a guide: Fifth grade - Spelling Workout F and G Sixth grade - Spelling Workout G and H Seventh grade - Vocabulary from Classical Roots A and B Eight grade - Vocabulary from Classical Roots C and D It doesn't look like she recommend doing both spelling and vocabulary study at the same time especially since the later levels of Spelling Workout moves from spelling rules to more of a word study with prefixes, suffixes and roots. Hope this helps.

I would begin with what your goals are for logic stage science. Do you want your student to have a general understanding of the major topics, to simply acquire a love for science, etc. According to TWTM, logic stage science should be heavy on science experiments. "In the middle grades, your goal is to teach the young student to think critically about doing science. He'll learn how scientists in each field --biology, earth science, astronomy, chemistry, physics--use experimentation to confirm their theories. And through experimentation, he'll practice using the scientific method himself." (TWTM, p. 385 3rd ed.) Basically, the science study in the logic stage should be "experiment-focused", they should gain a firm grasp on the scientific method, and learn how to write short reports. With this method your student's output would be the lab report and a short research paper. SWB also recommends students sketch and labeling "models or diagrams encountered in the experiment materials" Her general recommendation for the length of the short reports are: 5th grade - 2-3 paragraphs 6th grade- 1 page 7th & 8th grades - 2 pages. Again, these are SWB recommendations in TWTM. You have to also consider what your goals for your student are and go from there :)

My student is on Saxon 7/6 so we'll be right where you are, next year. Here is what is recommended in TWTM: "In recognition that many seventh graders won't be ready to start pre-algebra (Algebra 1/2), Saxon provides Math 8/7 to serve as a bridge between Math 7/6 (the sixth-grade book) and Algebra 1/2. If your sixth grader is still stumbling over the concepts in Math 7/6, don't push her into Algebra 1/2; use Saxon's alternate sequence (see the table "The Saxon Program," below). Either sequence is perfectly acceptable for a middle-grade student (TWTM pp. 259-260, third edition). The Saxon Program: Regular Versus Alternate Regular Saxon Sequence 5th - Math 6/5 6th - Math 7/6 7th - Algebra 1/2 8th - Algebra 1 Alternate Saxon Sequence 5th - Math 6/5 6th - Math 7/6 7th - Math 8/7 8th - Algebra 1/2 Hope this helps. Lily :001_smile:

My daughter is in the 6th grade and we went through all 4 levels of FLL and then switched to R&S in the 5th grade. Grammar, like Math and Spelling, is a skills-based subject that must be learned systematically. Skipping levels will leave gaps in your understanding. In TWTM Susan Wise Bauer says, "The logic-stage student must use a formal grammar program to build the language skills so necessary for good writing." She recommends R&S because it teaches diagramming thoroughly and well. "We don't think diagramming sentences ought to be optional. Sentence diagrams reveal the logic of sentence structure...diagramming prevents the child from simply parroting back the rules that she doesn't fully understand." For this reason, I agree with many of the ladies who recommend that you back up a couple of levels and only cover the topics your daughter(s) need. I don't know if you use the Tests that come with the program but if you do, I recommend that you administer each test of R&S Level 6 (even backing up to level 5 if it becomes necessary) to see what your daughter(s) already know and don't know. If you administer the chapter 1 test and she gets everything correct, then administer the chapter 2 test the next day (or the same day if time allows and she feels up to it) and so on. Keep doing this until you come to a topic that she hasn't mastered yet. Also, remember that R&S was written for a classroom setting so there are more practice exercises than may be needed. Again quoting SWB, "...don't feel that you have to complete every grammar exercise. If your child understands the concepts and is able to put it into practice, there's no need to be compulsive about finishing the page." As far as how far you should go with grammar, well I don't have a rhetoric stage student yet so I don't know what the recommendations for grammar in the rhetoric stage are in TWTM. I would read what SWB recommends and then make a decision. What I appreciate most about SWB and that she doesn't simply say, "Do this." She always explains the reasons behind her recommendations and leaves it up to us to decide what's best for our students. Hope this helps.

My daughter does a Rod & Staff grammar lesson a day. There are an average of 130 lessons per year (the average school year is 180 days) which means she will likely finish the book before the end of the year. This works because if she has a lengthy writing assignment in Writing With Skill, I'll have her skip her grammar lesson that day. Of course you can always do grammar 3-4 times a week if that works best for your family. It takes her about 20-30 minutes to complete a lesson a day but she doesn't do every exercise. I'll share more about what an average lesson looks like in a bit. Also, on test days she only takes her test. She doesn't complete an additional lesson. Test days are shorter days for her. SWB recommends Rod & Staff because the program teaches sentence diagramming. She says, "We don't think diagramming sentences ought to be optional. Sentence diagrams reveal the logic of sentence structure, . . . Diagramming is a hands-on grammar activity. Visual learners will benefit from "seeing a picture" of grammatical structure, . . . diagramming prevents the child from simply parroting back rules that she doesn't fully understand. . . These texts take a rigorous, systematic, old-fashioned, and very effective approach to building expository writing skills." R & S has more practice exercises than most students need so it isn't necessary to do every exercise. Here is another quote by SWB, "Although the writing exercises in the middle-grade books should be completed, don't feel that you have to complete every grammar exercise. If your child understands the concepts and is able to put it into practice, there's no need to be compulsive about finishing the page. In addition, you should feel free to adjust the topics of the assigned essays so that they match the student's history or science learning." If a student was using R&S as both a grammar and writing curriculum, then it is recommended they complete all of the writing assignments but it isn't necessary to complete all of the grammar exercises. Here is an example of what an assigned lesson looks like in our house: English 6 – Progressing With Courage □ Lesson 26: Possessive Nouns □ Class Practice: None □ Written Practice: A. all, B. Odd #’s, C. all, D. All □ Review Exercises: Odd #’s If I feel she needs the practice, I have her do all of the exercises. If not, I only assign the odd numbers. Sometimes I have her skip whole sections. I also adjust the writing topics to match her history and science topics like Ms. Bauer recommends and this is what it looks like in her planner: English 6 – Progressing With Courage Chapter 3: Working With Nouns – Developing Paragraphs Lesson 24: Developing Paragraphs by Using Examples and Illustrations □ Class Practice: A. □ Written Exercises: B. As you write your summary on a topic about the Yangtze River, develop one of your paragraphs using examples and illustrations as explained in today's lesson. □ Review Exercise: All I love this because one assignments counts for two and she's applying what she's learning. I apologize for the long post. Hope it helps :)

My middle grade student is in the 6th grade. We use Rod and Staff for grammar. The sixth grade book is called "Progressing With Courage". For literature we use the assigned reading list in TWTM. Susan Wise Bauer recommends, "Avoid “literature programsâ€; instead, key a reading list to the history curriculum." Below is sample of the books on her list this read for this year: Sixth grade, Middle Ages/Early Renaissance: 400-1600 AD 
Beowulf: A New Telling, by Robert Nye Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, verse translation by J.R. R. Tolkein Canterbury Tales, retold by Geraldine McCaughrean Dante’s Inferno, Cantos I-V, trans. Robert Pinsky Saint George and the Dragon, from Spenser’s The Fairy Queen retold by Margaret Hodges The Boy’s King Arthur : Sir Thomas Malory’s History of King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table Edited by Sidney Lanier, original illustrations by N.C. Wyeth. The Sword in the Stone, T. H. White Shakespeare Stories, by Leon Garfield There are recommended books for each grade level in the logic stage in TWTM. Hope this helps.

I highly, highly, highly recommend listening to Susan Wise Bauer's lecture on the Great Books. It's $3 or $4 and you can order the cd or get it instantly as an audio download. It explains clearly what the goal of the history study for the logic stage should be and how to do it. In the logic stage the student is "finding connections between events...history changes from a set of stories into one long, sequential story filled with cause and effect" (TWTM p. 269, 3rd ed.) I think how you proceed with your son will be determined by what your goals for his history study are. Hope this helps.

Thanks Colleen. After I posted this question I listened to both the Middle School Writing lecture as well as the Great Books lecture and, you're right, they did help tremendously with understanding what she was trying to communicate in the book. My daughter is in the 6th grade this year and I had her write daily narrations (3-4 sentences) of the books she was reading-- "Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and the Canterbury Tales retold by Geraldine McCaughrean--but I decided not to have her continue the daily written narrations with the remaining books on our list (we're still doing the summary once she completes a book and including a 2 sentence evaluation). She is a strong reader and a good writer and I didn't find it necessary. Like you said, I didn't want to squelch her love of reading and she wasn't having trouble comprehending the stories. Thanks also for the definitions of narrations, reports, and essays you included. After reading TWTM several times and listening to the lectures I came up with similar definition so your post helped to confirm what I thought. Thanks again.

This was helpful. Thank you for responding. I own the Writing With Ease -Strong Fundamentals hardback instructional manual you mentioned and I did find a definition of narrations there. It says, "Narration happens when the student takes something he's just read (or heard you read) and puts it int his own words...You then require him to answer you in complete sentences." From Writing With Skill Level One, I pieced together the following: * Narrations and Outlines are both a type of Summary. The student is told, "... you have practiced writing narrations--brief summaries of stories and non-fiction narratives. Now you'll begin to work on a new form of summary writing: outlining." * A narration is a brief summary of stories and non-fiction narratives. In a narration the student is to: -Write down 5-6 phrases or short sentences that will remind him of the things that happened in the passage (this is for the logic stage) in the same order that they happen in the story. -Combine the 5-6 phrases or short sentences into 3-4 complete sentences, -Say your 3-4 sentences out loud several times before writing them down. -Write your 3-4 sentences down. I think I have better understanding now. Thanks to all who responded.

I would love and appreciate more guidance as to how to "follow the rules for composition taught in the writing program which the student should be using concurrently." This is from the logic stage history chapter. It seems the student is to apply what he/she is learning in Writing With Skill, for example, to the summaries they are writing for history and science? Is that right? More information on this would be great. Looking forward to the 4th edition :)