I haven't read all the posts but, my first thought was that most of us here are that way. Very few people really love homeschooling yet, we do it. Many of us continue all the way through high school, which is hard work. But then, I thought that maybe I do choose happiness over committment sometimes. In little things. When I say to my kids, "just a minute, Mommy wants to hear the news," or "Mommy needs a few minutes of quiet." I don't know. It's something to think about for a while. I do think with marriage and raising children, you have to put your own happiness aside and meet your committments first, at least most of the time. Otherwise, it doesn't work. So, maybe it's combination? I don't know. I do agree that being happy is a choice. My extended family is full of people who wallow in every little hurt and injustice. Even when shown how to think more positively and let these little things go, they choose to remain negative. Everyone gets hurt, offended, has unfair situations - it's how you handle them, what you choose to do afterwards that determine your happiness. So, yes, happiness is a choice. Denise

Dialectica - You're right! I completely missed that you were making the same point, more succintly though. :001_smile: I wasn't sure you were arguing for Marxism though. My thought was that you were just bringing out the irony. In my sleep deprived state, I went into free flow - always a dangerous thing to do. Yes, if we are allowed, it would make a wonderful discussion. I do fear that people outside of this thread will become involved and may get tempermental. It's fun to go in-depth on these topics when you have people who want to just discuss and not get emotional. I learn so much from these types of conversations. How do we start the thread? Economic and political systems? Will that attract too much negative attention? What do you think? Critterfixer -My oldest will be taking American Govt. & Politics and Economics this yr. He wants to study utopian ideas for literature, along with some of the books in Our Lady of Victory School's communism class. I'll add the book you mentioned to his list. Or I'll read it, at least. It should be interesting. I want him to get a good dose of all ideas. Denise

:lol: That's funny. Something for the college application! Denise

The difference is that in a capitalist system with a democracy, these kind of abuses can and are stopped. Under marxist systems, they are not. China, the U.S.S.R. and North Korea are good examples of this difference. On the surface, Marx's idea of a communal society looks good. But, to have everything equal requires control which, historically has required force, which then necessitates dictatorship. Marx does point out some of the flaws of a capitalist system. It's not perfect. There are externalities. However, his answer to it is worse. As capitalists, we can and often do make corrections in our system. Yes, they take time. No, things are not always fair. But, are they fair under the communist system? Ever? At least we can and do make corrections. Neither system is alive in it's pure form. Human behavior factors in, for one thing. For me, I want to live under the system that allows for constant tweaking, correcting and input from the very people who live under it. That is what we have in the Western World. It's democracy, capitalism and yes, a bit of socialism (to one degree or another) mixed together. Not perfect, but works the best so far. Denise

Yes, Hunter, I too believe this is the case. Except, I think some of those slaves are here on U.S. soil. One of the issues with illegal immigration that doesn't get much attention is that some of the people end up as slaves. Then there are people who are kidnapped, usually children, and people who are sold. It keeps me up at night. It also really upsets me that you were manipulated and controlled for so many years. I'm glad you are out of those situations. I think God has a special place for people who abuse others like that. ;) Justamouse - the article you linked describes horrible conditions but it doesn't sound like they are slaves. Not far from it though. This stuff bothers me to the pit of my soul and yet, I'm not sure how to make an impact. Maybe it's why adopting was so important to us, one less child that might be exploited and abused. Friends of ours are investigating some things going on here w/foreign workers. If they find anything, they will turn it over to the authorities. Other than that type of thing, I am at a loss as to how to stop human trafficing and slavery. Or the abuses described in your linked article. Stopping abuses is one reason why educating ourselves and our children must include a knowledge of history, governments, economics and religion. Understanding human behavior and motivation is important too. Finally, I think it is important to educated in a way that promotes critical analysis. A child needs to learn the background, then be able to research and analyze to come to their own conclusions. This is what TWTM sets out to do. This then goes back to the bi-cultural argument. Many Americans are bi-cultural, at least in some aspects. Yet, the kind of ed. that imparts all this knowledge along with the skills to do something w/that knowledge and implement meaningful changes, is important to us all. I would argue that type of education is a classical one. Whew! I'm sorry if I rambled. I had insomnia last night so I spent a lot of time thinking about all of these points. This is one of the best conversations ever. Hunter, maybe you should write for an in-depth news journal or think tank. Thank you again for starting this conversation. Denise

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm pretty far behind where I want to be too. Dh had 2 surgeries this summer, ds went back and forth for camp counselor job so every weekend I spent washing his stuff and sending him back, little kids constantly want attention and so on. Still, school will start, they will receive a rigorous, though not perfect, education and we will all survive. I've never been this far behind. Prioritizing helps. They need their books and curriculum first. Then schedule the first month. Skim through the TE's and read enough to get started - you'll want to tweak it all anyway. And so forth. You'll be ready and it will be ok even if you're not. More :grouphug:s. Denise

Kolbe Academy has one. Go to the store section, choose high school math, then scroll down to the Alg. II section and you will see it there. www.kolbe.org hth Denise

1966-1970. The Vietnam War. Denise

Several pages back I said it was the Israeli Olympic track team being taken hostage but, after lunch I remembered watching the news during the Vietnam War. They had pull-down maps back then and the news was reported several days after it actually happened. My dad was there and my sister and I watched the news every night to "see where Daddy was" and to make sure his plane hadn't gone down over enemy territory. I tend to block that out of my memory because it was such a difficult year. I was 4 and then turned 5 near Christmas. Denise

Welcome! I hope you enjoy it here. It can get crazy and very funny in a laugh out loud/spit your coffee way. If you don't understand a reference, just ask and someone will explain it to you. By the way, big families are great! Not that I have one - but I can admire from afar. :001_smile: Denise

Thanks everyone. Your input clears up a lot of my confusion. I'll get ds a scientific calc. but will only let him use it to check his work. He'll be so happy :D. But he really will be happy once he's in college and his math classes are easier for him than for his peers. I'll get the graphing calculator in the spring before he takes the SAT. Denise

Regentrude - Your original post was fine. I just needed you to flesh it out a bit more for me. Yes, I do see your point. Thanks for responding. Denise

Thanks for clearing this up. After the free trial, my dd can't wait for me to buy this for her. She keeps asking and asking. :001_smile: Denise

The Israeli track team that was taken hostage during the Olympics. I don't remember exactly how old I was then - early elementary though. Denise

I've read many threads re: graphing calculators and a lot of people don't use them for Alg. II. So, do you need them only for Calc? Physics? I am wondering because I noticed that Kolbe provides graphing calc. guides for Foerster's Alg. II course. But that seems to be contradictory to what people on this board have said. Please help. Denise

Why? I understand that wages in the U.S. are higher than in many other countries but as manufacturing uses more advanced technology, won't that require a higher level of skill from employees? Skills that might not be found in countries where wages are much lower? Also, I look at Germany and see both high wages and a lot of manufacturing. Is that just my impression from news casts? I have never lived there so I'm not sure I have an accurate picture of what is really happening in Germany. It just seems that the Germans are able to walk that line, higher wages while keeping manufacturing in the country, so why can't we? I'm not trying to be confrontational. You are far more versed on this subject than I. So I'm asking, could we accomplish both higher wages and increased manufacturing here in the U.S.? Denise

Yes, yes, yes! This is what we did with our oldest. We took him for nature walks, hikes, played with plants and bugs and so on. We also read to him from the time he was a baby. We recited rhymes and poems, read fairy tales. By the time he was 5, dh was reading The Hobbit to him as a bedtime story. DS loved every minute of it. We do similar things with our 2 younger children. Unfortunately, our middle dc did not have this same foundation, as I described earlier. Not because his family was poor, but because they just didn't think about needing any of this. Our hope is that as we provide more and more of these experiences for him, his internal environment will change. We are seeing that happen now, but it is slow. You don't have to be well-off financially to offer your kids the best enrichment. God has already provided that for us in nature. And, there are many free activites and videos on the web, once they are older. But the best foundation is one guiding them through and letting them discover nature. It sets them up for so much of the rich and rigorous academics that come later. Justamouse - I will be ordering this book today. It will remind me how important it is to take my kids outdoors and show them "stuff" every day. Thanks for posting it! Denise

Hunter and AutumnOak - I think you two should get together and write a book based on this very topic. I will buy copies and give them to my extended family members as Christmas gifts. You both work your tails off and scarifice yourselves for your children and your grandchildren. So many people in our country have so much and take it for granted. They would certainly never make the sacrifices you've both made for the benefit of their children and grandchildren. :grouphug:s to both of you. Denise

Rats in the walls?! That can't be good. Can you call an exterminator? Today. I hate rats. We almost had to buy a house with a rat infestation. Luckily, we got out of the contract. I still have nightmares about them. Rats and aligators - I hate them. I hope you are wrong. Maybe it was armadillos that you heard. Or a trapped bird. I hope you are wrong. Good luck with whatever it is. Denise

I grew up in the military, so I purge regularly. Still, with 3 kids and homeschooling, we filled almost 2 PODS to move here to FL.:tongue_smilie: That included the lawn mower, yard tools and so forth. Once I'm done homeschooling, it all goes. Ok, most of it goes.:D But I will ruthlessly get rid of stuff. Moving is hard. I hope it goes smoothly. Denise

DW-TV from Germany- when I can get it. ABC - local news only NBC & CBS - again, local news only Fox - Sundays only Various radio stations. Wall Street Journal - once in a while. I want to try CBC. Can I get it on the internet? Denise

Ok, this thread caught my eye. I thought the English Only initiatives were about immersing non-English speaking kids in, well, English. Is that not the case? I think it's important to be fluent in the language of the country in which you live. The complaint about kids being taught in their first lang. so they wouldn't fall behind academically came from the kids themselves. The problem is that they graduate high school but still can't speak English well. It hampers them in finding work and attending college. As far as native English speakers, we should all be taught a foreign language in school. I do think students should have some choice as to which foreign language they learn. In the Wash. DC area, there are immersion schools where the English speaking students learn their subjects in Spanish. The Spanish speaking students are taught in English. It takes them all a little longer to progress in their academics, at first. By the time they enter middle school, they are at least even with their peers and they speak 2 languages. I like this idea a lot. You have to know, my father spoke no English until he entered school. He learned through immersion and speaks both languages fluently. He goes from one to the other without even thinking about it. It's pretty awesome. Good thread. Thanks for starting it. Denise

So, it's the parents fault because they are uninvolved? Yet, 4 yrs. ago, when I lived in Northern VA, parents who wanted to volunteer in the classroom were being told no. Parents were turned away in droves. The only involvement the schools wanted was for parents to fund-raise. For what it's worth, my son's special ed. teacher did allow me to volunteer. I did everything she asked and she taught me tons. It was a great relationship. But, she was a rarity. As far as the bulk of the $ going to special ed. kids - it goes to the admin. staff. Some of those folks rarely, if ever, see the kids. There were 3 teachers who worked with my son. At the IEP meetings, 20 people would show up, put in their 2 cents, one woman slept, and then leave. They all got paid more than the 3 teachers that actually worked with my son and his classmates. Oh, and they wanted no input from dh and I. We were to just sign our names and agree to whatever they told us to do. It was so frustrating. I think that between the unions and their "activities," and the bloated admin. staff, ps don't stand a chance at improving. We need a real grass movement, not this pseudo "line out pockets" stuff. Denise

Our middle ds is an example of family culture, I think. We adopted him at age 4. Until age 3, he lived with his family. Yes, they were very poor. Being poor does not automatically mean a lack of value on education, as is evidenced by Hunter and others on this board. In Tigger's family though, it did mean that. In our family, quality literature is highly valued. Tigger only wants to read books involving TV, movie or comic book characters, if he reads at all. We finally got him to read some of The Magic Treehouse books, which is a step up but not good quality. He tried reading the Chronicles of Narnia, his choice, but didn't really comprehend the story. Nor did he understand the humor in Artemis Fowl, another series that does not qualify as great lit. but it is funny. The problem is not his intelligence. We knew he was a bright boy. When we screened out learning disabilities, his IQ was tested and found to be high average. So, he's bright. He comes from an environment where education was not highly valued. Therefore, he doesn't have the same foundation as our other dc. He starts from a place much further behind them. It's the culture he's from, not the culture of his country but his family. And this speaks to some of what EsterMaria was saying and what Hunter is getting at, I think. If you start from this type of environment, you first have to learn how to create a new environment and then you can begin to work towards your goals. It takes time as well as great effort. Can it be done in 1 or 2 generations? Maybe but maybe it takes longer. There are many factors involved, which have already been discussed in this thread. It's an interesting question. Thanks for starting this thread, Hunter. Denise

Hunter - I understand your question and, while I did not read all of the posts, I did read Dulcimeramy's and EsterMaria's. I agree with both of them. Both dh and I come from lower-middle class families. We both have Master's degrees. Yet, we feel woefully inadequate to teach our dc a truly classical education because we learned little to none of the things in this style of ed. You are right, I struggle to learn and my dc, especially my oldest, gets older each day. While he has a much better foundation than dh or I ever had, he doesn't have the WTM education we want for him. Our youngest is 4 so she has a chance. It took me so long to learn the what and how of each and evey subject (the why I got right away). Even now, I am still learning and still lacking. Yes, all 3 of my dc will have "successful" lives, as the world defines it. And, they will be more well-read, well-versed and able to think critically than the majority of other people. But, that's not the end goal, is it? I want TWTM, LCC and so on. My hope is that they will pass on what we taught them plus more to their kids. So, to answer your question, maybe 2 generations if they work as hard at learning these subjects as dh and I. Excellent thread from you, as usual. Denise