Well my son, 10th grade, got a score of 173. Reading 60, Math 59 and Writing 54. That's actually well above average according to the percentile reports. 93%, 91%, 86% respectively. Nothing to complain about from my perspective! :laugh:

I like how you put that - "unless it becomes overbearingly unscientific." :lol: I've never done the lower level Apologia science, so I can't speak to that. But I've done Wile's Biology and Chemistry. Honestly I remember reading how unscientific his books were, how I'd be leading my children scientifically astray etc. if I let them use his books, so I never thought I would. But then when my oldest needed high school science I decided I might as well look at the Apologia sample, and I realized it was exactly what she needed. His way of explaining things in words just clicks for her. And I did look at lots of other options. When it came time for chemistry, I thought for sure we'd be using a different book for chemistry instead of Apologia again. (I looked at Chang, Tro, Zundahl, Spectrum. I actually used them as resources anyway.) But in the end, I realized that Wile's way of explaining the concepts would be her best bet. In spite of his problems, he has a knack for explanation (for a certain type of learner). And because I didn't want to do different books for different kids, my son and our friends who were joining us for biology and chemistry also ended up doing Apologia. (It was kind of a family co-op arrangement.) I think it worked out okay for everyone. We skipped Wile's chapter on evolution (in the biology book) and we skipped his write up on "scientific law" which is not standard. I made sure we talked about the more accepted use of "theory" versus "law," and made them read a little bit about that. We also talked about his attitude that sometimes comes through that seems to imply you'd have to be a fool to believe in evolution. (More in the biology than in chemistry.) Sometimes the kids laughed at his "rants" (not just on evolution but on other things). But we talked about that. This is a book written by one person, and he lets himself be known. Not necessarily bad even if you don't agree with him. We also talked about speaking about him with respect. We didn't like his attitude that "you'd have to be a fool to believe in evolution" but do we think of him as a "fool" (less than a person) for his beliefs even if we think he's wrong. Every once in awhile a kid would question if he was "wrong" on other points, but most of the science (especially in chemistry) is pretty much what you'd get in another book. (Biology is weaker more because it focuses more on labeling the parts of the creatures instead of on newer developments in biology. But on the other hand, the animal parts stuff isn't "wrong" or unscientific.) Just thought I'd put this out there for anyone who might still be following this. Every kid is different for sure, and you might find a book that suits you better than Apologia. That's great. But if you do happen to have a kid that Apologia's style clicks for, you don't necessarily need to be afraid of using it just because the worldview doesn't match yours. It is a bit of a challenge, but I don't think it has to be "overbearingly unscientific." :)

Thanks for pointing out these features. I hadn't really noticed, but now that you mention it I'm glad for all those things - especially that the pictures don't totally give away the story! I have a good little guesser who really has a hard time with decoding! But I also like the natural phrasing now that you've brought it to my attention. First I thought the readers were pricey, but I have to say now that they've been worth it for us. I have an older beginning reader (almost 8) and she really likes the AAR books because they are thicker and look like chapter books. She also likes the illustrations. She thinks most of the other books she can read are "baby" books. And I can see her point. One thing I did consider for the flash cards was using the AAS cards and then making some of my own cards to fill in the words that aren't in AAS. The teacher's manual does tell you what the cards will be for each lesson. Just a thought.

My teens have been re-reading Brandon Sanderson's books, the Mistborn books and Elantris are some of the books I've seen around. They look pretty thick to me, but I don't know if they are the kinds of books your daughter reads. I think I've heard that Mistborn is more accessible than his The Way of Kings if you aren't that into fantasy (like me).

The idea of "stealth dyslexia" is totally what got me thinking in a different way a couple of years ago. I had never thought of anyone in my family as having dyslexia until I read that article and realized it totally sounds like my dad. But he finished medical school, so how could he be dyslexic, right? :confused: So now I do look at my kids and their reading or writing problems a little bit differently. I really, really appreciate the wisdom and experience here!

Oh, you could have just hijacked it. :) I totally need to hear what everyone is saying in this thread too. Thanks for starting it!

This seems like a good way to make the decision. I wonder if I need to try to bump things up a little and see what happens for ds. Perhaps part of my problem is that I don't really know exactly what his limits are because I haven't pushed. I have a lot of thinking and studying to do it seems. Thanks for getting me started.

Thanks for sharing more of your experience. You certainly went through a lot of evaluations! I'm so glad it bore fruit for you and your son. I'd not heard of the Livescribe pen. It sounds interesting. I'm a little concerned that even if I did some evaluations, they wouldn't be enough for accommodations from Collegeboard. As far as I know the only learning issue ds has is dysgraphia. He didn't have speech problems, and I don't think he has struggled with dyslexia. I could be wrong though. He was a little later with reading, probably around 8 when it really clicked and another year or two before he read for fun. Spelling is not great, but not too bad. I would personally be interested in evaluations. But I do wonder if they'd be worth it (meaning we'd actually get accommodation) in his case. I guess I need to start researching more. I do wonder if I should make him do a bit more handwriting practice still. But yes, it would take time - at the expense of something else. I do appreciate being able to learn from you!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. It's somewhat comforting to think that perhaps even if we had done more at a younger age it might not have made a huge improvement. That is what I mostly heard when I looked for advice when he was younger. Most people suggested letting him learn to type.

I really appreciate hearing your story! I'm glad that you were able to get accommodation from the Collegeboard. That's good news! I guess I'm starting to wonder if I need to go the route you ended up going, but it sounds so overwhelming (and expensive). My son can produce mostly legible writing (printing) though he does do some weird letters. I did have him do a couple of the Handwriting Without Tears books, including one cursive one, when he was younger. I'm trying to think what's the most I've seen him write. Hmmm, He once wrote a paragraph (slowly) for scouts. He wrote a list recently of which screws and nuts he needed from a specialty hardware store. (50 10mm, 1 2.5mm etc.) So he does write some if necessary, but he definitely tries to avoid it. So I'm assuming that since most OT don't recommend therapy for teens that means they aren't likely to improve much more in their abilities? (I'm feeling guilty for not doing more when he was younger.) If so then maybe I need to start looking at evaluations. I'd love to hear more of your experience if you don't mind sharing. (Or you've probably posted about it before.) Thanks for hearing me!

I've not worried much over the years about my son's dysgraphia. I've never done anything to have him evaluated or had any kind of therapy for him. For years we did math orally, and he learned to type for everything else, and it all seemed fine. But now that we're starting high school I'm beginning to worry a bit. In the last couple months I feel like I've just become aware of how MUCH he still avoids writing. I'm afraid this could could hold him back. For example, doing math, he tends to try to keep as much in his head as possible so he doesn't have to write anything. He's done pretty well, but now he's doing algebra and chemistry, and suddenly it's a problem sometimes because he doesn't write out all the steps. Also, I'd like him to take an AP psychology class next year, and it suddenly struck me that you have to write BY HAND on AP tests! I really would rather not deal with doing everything that it seems you need to do to get accommodations from the College Board and places like that. We don't have insurance coverage for any evaluation or OT. Isn't there something (easy) I can do with him to just "fix" his handwriting enough to do an AP essay or two? :tongue_smilie: But seriously, if anyone has any suggestions for me I'm all ears. I'm feeling a little bad that I haven't taken this more seriously. (But I'm still feeling lazy, like I don't have the energy to go to extremes on this.)

For a younger boy, I liked On Your Mark, Get Set, Grow: A What's Happening to my Body book for Younger Boys by Lynda Madaras. And for a younger girl Ready, Set, Grow: A What's Happening to my Body Book for Younger Girls. For teens, though, I'd probably get the older What's Happening to my Body books.

Better pictures and graphics in the activity pages for one thing. I just bought the new activity pages, not the whole guide, so I can't say whether or not the activities and book lists are updated. I assume the book list at least was updated. Maybe someone else can answer that.

And look at this. I even found someone who compares the two. (I'd still be interested in more opinions though if anyone has anything to add.)

I just found a thread with some more reviews plus some links to other threads. (See, I just had to know to search for Killgallon!)

Maybe third grade? (Just guessing here, as I obviously don't have experience.) Check out the sample for Story Grammar for Elementary School on amazon too. Amazon shows slightly different pages than the samples on Heinemann. Between the two, I'm starting to get a feel for this program. I'm trying to figure out now what the difference is between the Grammar for... books and the Sentence Composing for.... books. Do I need both I wonder?

Enormously helpful! Thank you. And now that your link made me realize that Grammar for High School (which sounds so generic) is Killgallon, I can find lots of other information, at least about the approach.

Me too! It would be useful.

I've tried searching, but I don't see this on any threads. It sounds interesting to me, but does anyone have any experience with this program? Or has anyone even seen it? I'm wondering if it's anything like Classical Writing's approach. (I haven't actually used Classical Writing yet. I've just been looking it over trying to decide.) Here is part of the description from Hewitt's website: "Students learn to punctuate and write like a pro by imitating the greats, using a sentence-composing toolbox, multiplying and mixing the tools. Fourteen grammatical structures are developed as writing tools in the same predictable, understandable manner." Anyone's input would be appreciated.

I wish you all lived next door, so you could give me a personalized tutorial. 'Course then I'd drive you all crazy with my questions!:D I keep telling myself 10 hours, I need to give it 10 hours, and then I'll be an expert (or at least I won't be clueless). Now I'm off to try the archiving and unarchiving bit.

Oh, my goodness, thank you! I see how it works now. So I suppose that when I want to reuse the lesson plan I just erase the used on dates and start again. I knew it had to be simpler than I was making it or who would love it? :)

So I've heard that the great thing about Lesson Plans is that you can reuse them. But when I submit the lesson plan items to the assignment they are no longer in the original lesson plan. Am I supposed to be making of copy of the lesson plan and archiving it before I start submitting things to assignments? Tell me this isn't so. I'm hoping that some of you will be kind enough to share with me your approach or tell me what I'm missing here.

I'm not a rigorous homeschooler by anyone's definition, but I certainly hope that all you rigorous (or Draconian) homeschoolers keep posting and don't get discouraged by resistance. I never post here, but I visit to be inspired. Sure, sometimes I get overwhelmed by all the amazing things you people do educationally. It's a little like watching Michael Jordan play basketball or watching any other master at work. WTM is where you go to "learn from the best" if you don't mind my saying so. Susan Wise Bauer is one of my heroes and probably if I got to know some of you Draconian homeschoolers you'd be my heroes too. I keep thinking that if I "hang out" here and observe, maybe someday I'll figure out how to make "rigorous" work for my family. It may never happen..... I've been at this for almost ten years now. But surely it brings my efforts and perhaps my skills up just a little bit. I'll bet there are plenty of others like me who would hate to see the rigorous homeschoolers go underground. Well, personally I think it is just a word that isn't used much these days, at least in American English. I wasn't sure what to think at first. I think I've got it now. :) Rigorous is a good thing.

To me, it sounds like Miquon is just what you need. Of course, there are always many, many opinions when it comes to math, but here's why I think it seems like the best option for you: 1. Your ds likes it. Too much drill bores him. He loves to explore new concepts. 2. You like it. You want something where you interact with him during math. 3. You already own it. And if you need to buy the rest of the books they are very inexpensive. Don't be insecure about using just Miquon. If you need to focus on just one math program at a time, do it and don't worry that you're missing something. In my opinion, Miquon is a great program. Wonderful for learning math concepts and developing mathematical flexibility. I'll bet he'll retain more math facts than you might expect. But if he still needs more drill on math facts you can hit it hard in 4th grade when he's done with Miquon. Just my thoughts. Good luck in your decision!

Thanks! That's a great list.