After having taught several small co-op classes myself I think what you have experienced is quite common. There were kids who came to my class and were interested in the subject material but refused to do the work. One ninth grade boy brought a report completely reprinted from Wikipedia. I called him on it, asked him to redo it, and he didn't turn in assignments again. A huge part of the problem was that his parents didn't seem to care if he did the work. On the other hand, I have had great experiences with very small groups. Sometimes it is just the personality of the group that makes a difference. mary

I would encourage you to look at System Math at systemath.com. Watch one of the demo videos. You may be completely under-awed but I'm telling you this guy works! Our daughters have been watching the videos since the 6th grade and it has done wonders. The man, (Paul I think), explains things so you really get the concept. In fact as I watch the videos I am learning the whys behind math that I never knew before! No wonder I have had a hard time figuring out how to teach math all these years. I'm not sure what grade your soon is in. I know that he doesn't have videos for the real young set, but I would highly encourage you~ or anyone~ to consider this program as your kids progress. I am coming from having used Saxon, Abeka, Singapore, BobJones (briefly), Keys to, etc.... It really is a great program. No bells no whistles. mary

The Notgrass sounds like something I could use. I'm with you about the Streams of Civ. I really don't like that book, it is so dry and dull! Do you worry about overwhelming your 8th grader with such serious books? Or does he/she like to be challenged? What is your 8th grader's opinion of the course you have laid out for him? I vacillate back and forth between challenging material versus moderately challenging material~you know~like the VP 6th grade material! :0) mary

If I want to respond to a person who has responded to the original poster, how do I do that? I only know how to respond to the original post. Does that make sense? mary

I didn't read all the posts here so I may be repeating. I've got many years of experience under my belt and I will tell you that it is best to do a few things really well than to try to do many things and do them all poorly. But I'm sure you've heard that before.....but now really think about what that means. It is hard on the kids to have so much work to do everyday and it isn't a great testimony to keep starting curriculums and not finishing them. My suggestion is to get rid of everything that is redundant. Pick one math, one grammar (I suggest R&S), one history. Incorporate geography with maps into the history. Incorporate writing into history narration. Making your schedule realistic means that you actually have a chance at making it work! It is hard enough to have a great school year with an easy load, don't set yourself up for failure with such a huge expectation. Mary

I had to respond after reading the title to your post. After homeschooling for 13 years (we are starting our 14th) I can honestly say that the one thing I have been absolutely consistent with is abandoning ship on a new curriculum!! :0) I think sometimes we get enamored with the idea of a curriculum or someone is super good at selling it to us so in our mind it seems like just the best fit. When I try a curriculum and have to give up on it, I can look at it with a different perspective and often times I say to myself, "This was never going to be a good fit, what was I thinking?". So I guess all that to say get used to it! :0) As for the phonics program, we taught our kids starting with Sing Spell Read and Write. But then we moved on to the phonics flashcards with Teaching Reading at Home. The SSRW was fun, it had great little pre readers and coloring pages enough to keep the kids excited. THe TRaH was more meat and potatoes and we used those flashcards into the 4th grade as review for spelling. Enjoy the homeschooling journey is my best advice. It goes by way too quickly! Although it sounds like you are already able to laugh at your mistakes which is great for be assured there will be many! :) Mary

Tracie, I already own the lectures so that's not an issue. I would love to see how you are incorporating all three resources. Do you feel like Omnibus is appropriate for your 8th grader? I was looking over it again this week and I'm not sure if I want to go that intense for the 8th grade. My girls are looking forward to reading for Antiquity, especially the Greek and Roman myths, so I don't want to overwhelm them with works that are way above their head and discourage them. I'm not familiar with Notgrass history, do you mind giving me a brief description of it and why you use it? thanks, mary ps i followed the issue with Matt and Dr. Grant a couple of years back and unfortunately it looks like they separated on bad terms. From what I understand, any copies that Matt tries to sell at this point are~ if not unlawful for him to sell, at least unethical for him to sell. It was too bad because it really impacted families being able to get these quality lectures. As it is now, they are re-releasing the lectures but only as audio, not video.

Our son is at Marine Corp bootcamp right now after graduating from 13 years of homeschooling (I still can't believe we did it !! So I like to say it a lot :0)). He investigated several military options before choosing the Marines. My advice is to shop around for a good recruiter. He got one recruiter that promised the sun and the moon because he wanted to sign him up. Others were very uninformative. His recruiter he signed up under was excellent. He took the time to talk to all of us, answered questions and got us answers to those he didn't know and he spoke very realistically to our son. It is tough for him right now but we all feel like he is where the Lord has led him. mary

I agree with the suggestion for using The Trojan War. I just got the student guide for this book from Memoria Press and it looks like such a good book for that time period. I haven't read it but have read Caesar's Gaillic War by Coolidge and liked it. We will be using The Trojan War for our 8th grade girls and I think it looks a bit challenging, which is what I wanted. Archimedes would be a great book to assign for them to read alone but it is a bit young for a 10th grader. That's just my 2 cents worth :0) mary

I used Abeka for our tenth grade son and we liked it and feel he learned a lot. I assume you are talking about grammar and not literature. For grammar and some writing, Abeka is a great inexpensive choice.

I thought I would post this here as well as on the k-8 board since there may be more 9-12 grade moms here who have used Gileskirk: We have used the Gileskirk humanities dvd series for four years. Our second son did the whole set 9th through 12th grade. I realized too late that the senior year was going to be very hectic and we didn't have a chance to really complete the last Gileskirk Antiquity very well. So with my girls, I have decided to start the 4 year set in the 8th grade and we will do something different for 12th grade. I'm a bit uneasy about doing the Antiquity with 8th graders. I know I will have to gear it down to their level and they won't be doing the reading that our son did in the 12th grade, but I am hoping that we can use the lectures and learn a lot from that. Is there anyone here that has used this with an 8th grader? Our girls are what I would consider true 8th graders. One reads more at a 10th grade level but I would say both of them for comprehension are right at upper 8th grade level. I've pulled out my old Biblioplan (any of you homeschooled long enough to remember this?) and the old VP cards and my Picturesque Tales of Progress and I am trying to put together a plan for using the Gileskirk. I'd love some feedback! Perhaps I should look at the Omnibus to use with the Gileskirk? Thank you ladies, mary

We have used the Gileskirk humanities dvd series for four years. Our second son did the whole set 9th through 12th grade. I realized too late that the senior year was going to be very hectic and we didn't have a chance to really complete the last Gileskirk Antiquity very well. So with my girls, I have decided to start the 4 year set in the 8th grade and we will do something different for 12th grade. I'm a bit uneasy about doing the Antiquity with 8th graders. I know I will have to gear it down to their level and they won't be doing the reading that our son did in the 12th grade, but I am hoping that we can use the lectures and learn a lot from that. Has anyone used Gileskirk with an 8th grader? I would love any advice you could pass on, things that made it flow better for the younger kids, and any alternate books that you used. thank you , mary

Or maybe a better question would be, why did you start homeschooling in the first place? For us, we homeschool because we want our kids at home with us and being taught from a Biblical worldview. So it wouldn't be an option for us to put the kids into a public school. We have considered private Christian schools. I do think that you really have to take each child's situation into consideration. What we did with our oldest we might not do with the next child. I notice that you are in Albq. and that is also where we are living right now (until June when we are moving back to Co.). Have you been able to connect with other homeschooling families? Have you looked into some of the homeschool options such as the Rio Grande Enrichment Studies? Let me know if I can help connect you to others, it would be my pleasure. Mary

Also, what types of books are you looking for? any particular interests? I can give you quite a few good suggestions but I don't have a book list. mary

We are moving to the north Denver area this summer and look forward to getting connected in with other like minded home schoolers. We are Christians and we have been classically home schooling for 13 years. My son graduated this spring but we still have two 12 year old girls at home (7th-8th grade). We would love to get into an existing co-op or start a new one. We want to study logic and Latin and Literature with a group, as well as art and history if possible. I have previous experience teaching in an established co-op here and we have found the fellowship to be wonderful. I'm excited about our upcoming move and the doors the Lord will be opening up there. Please let me know if you are interested in starting a co-op or if you have room in an existing co-op. In Christ, Mary

I'll look into the links that you sent. I appreciate it! Mary

My name is Mary and I used to be a hard-core regular WTM board reader/poster over ten years ago. Seems like time could not have flown by that fast! I haven't been on this sight in quite a while and was very surprised at how much has changed. Back in our day we didn't have the yellow smileys, we had to make our own! Our son graduated this year and I am thankful that I found the WTM early on- I think it was a big part of our success in homeschooling. We still have two daughters at home, both 7th graders and I am looking forward to these last 5 years... so much to study and so little time! We are moving for the third time in 5 years, this time to the north Denver area, coming from NM. My problem is that I'm not having much success at finding homeschoolers to connect with in the area. It just seems so much easier to make friends and connections when the kids are younger. Once they hit that mid-school-high school age, it seems like the groups are formed and it is hard to break into a new group. I would love suggestions on how to find other like minded people. We love the classical method and are planning on using the Gileskirk videos this year. I would love to teach a logic class and have the group discussion. I'd love a full day co-op where the kids can learn latin and logic, literature and history together. Am I crazy to think that I will be able to find others this summer that share my vision and have kids about the same age? I figure I can always hope for it :o) Where do I look? Where do those elusive homeschoolers hang out? I tend to be a bit shy but after the second move I realized that I don't have time for shy, I'm ready to do what it takes to meet people. (I teased with my kids and told them we were going to all wear signs to the CHEC convention that said 'I just moved to Thornton, Co and I don't know anyone, will you be my friend?') We are still looking for a church and I hope to meet people there, but are there any other suggestions? thank you all, Mary

Thank you for taking the time to write a sample out for me! From what you wrote, it looks like a good fit for us, practical application written at his level. Is there a reason why you only got to page 85? Did you have a certain dislike for it? Or was it because, as I like to say, "life got in the way..."? mary

I am considering ordering Ancient Rhetorics by Sharon Crowley. I read the description in the Veritas Press catalog and it looks like something we could actually do. My son would like to take a Rhetoric course this year but we want to find something we would really use. By that I mean a textbook that is user friendly and at a junior or senior grade level- not a college text. Does anyone have any experience with this book or author? As always, I wish I could thumb through it before buying it! thank you, mary

I bought the Sentence Composing for Middle School and Sentence Composing for High School and have used them both. My son is in the tenth grade this year but I still started with the Middle School book because it seemed to lay a foundation for the author's method. The High School book picks up right where the Middle School book ends. The books don't teach essay writing or structure of paragraphs. The purpose is to teach the student to write sentences with more variety by practicing imitating good writers. The result is a student who writes at a more mature level. I was going to use it last year for the 9th grade and read through it and thought it just seemed like a funky way to teach writing style. I picked it up again at the beginning of this year and thought I would give it a try. I can honestly say that it is the one and only writing book I have purchased that I would recommend to anyone (and everyone). You just have to get past the quirky nature of the book! For what it is worth, I give these books my highest curriculum rating. As for the workbooks now sold with the books, I looked through them on Amazon and it seemed like it was just the books written out with space for the kids to write their sentences in the book. I would rather have my kids write out the sentences and keep them in the notebook so I stuck with the book and did not buy the workbook. I hope that was helpful for you April, Mary

Okay I am giving it a try. Now how do I change to hybrid or threaded modes? mary

I've been reading and posting to the Well Trained Mind message boards for 8 years now (!) and liked the old way so much better! I am one of those people that don't do well with change... So... how do I go about replying to a previous post without creating a new thread? Speak slowly and use small words and I might get it! Thanks! mary

We have used Gileskirk for our history for two years now and we all absolutely love it. We have learned so much and I can't tell you how often I see what my son is learning applied to our everyday lives. My son will read an article in the paper or a magazine and mention how it ties into what we are learning in Gileskirk. On the practical side, it has taught my son (and myself) excellent note taking skills. I have no doubt he will do a wonderful job taking notes in college level courses. If you want history that is relevant, and which opens up opportunities for great discussions, I highly recommend Gileskirk. To watch a sample lesson or read more about it, go to gileskirk.com. Mary

Thanks Jan, for your input. I have been doing what you suggested and having him write an essay every week. I just want to make sure I am doing the best job I can with him. It would be nice to have a book I could use that would help me to challenge him and also to teach me how to critique the papers better. We have used (and are using) the Kilgallon books and we love them. The books offer concrete ways to improve writing and sentence variation, without overwhelming my day with a highly structured curriculum. Now if I could find the same sort of practical guide for writing essays, in an easy to use, easy to understand way, I'd be set. Thanks Jan Mary

My son is in the 10th grade and is a very good writer. He writes using interesting sentences, and has a fairly good grasp on how to construct an essay. Even though I think he is doing pretty well, I do feel it is an area that we still need to work on. When he was younger, we worked through a couple of the Writing Strands books and he has been through Classical Writing Aesop and Homer with a co-op group that I did not teach. I decided to try something different this year and started with The Lively Art of Writing and used a book on writing essays from IEW (I can't think of the title and I have lent it to a friend). Since Jan. we have been trying to use Classical Writing Diogenes. I love the idea behind it but it has been such a struggle to use. I don't know why but for me, the Core book and Student Guide book are so confusing! It is hard to use on a day to day basis and I don't feel like we ever get enough information to learn the lessons. It is a shame because I think the theory behind it is great, but if we can't get it to work for us, it is an ineffective tool. I would like a suggestion of an essay writing course that might work better for us. We are not going to use the IEW course, mostly because I don't want to invest in it. Are there any other suggestions? I don't mind starting a course and finishing it next year, so it doesn't have to be a half year program. thanks, mary