Aside from concerns about long term effects on kids (and I agree we really just don't have good information on that yet), in a school setting having lots of kids sick, particularly with something that requires quarantines like COVID, is just really disruptive. I wish the CDC would either have waited until school was out for summer or at least said that this doesn't change the recommendations for masking in schools. Because now you're absolutely going to be looking at a situation where older kids (and some teachers) claim to be vaccinated when they're not while sitting in classrooms with kids not old enough to be vaccinated (or who just became eligible a few days ago).

(Also, sorry I was snarky. I try not to be snarky. Most of the time)

I think there are a lot of possible reasons (it's really only been a couple of weeks since availability has opened up so much, particularly in urban areas)...but I think the fact that people who work in public health/epidemiology are MORE likely to have been vaccinated than the population as a whole should be reassuring.

So you're arguing that we should all be skeptical of the vaccine because, according to Dr. Fauci's admittedly imprecise estimate, NIH workers are choosing to be vaccinated at a significantly higher rate than the general population?

That's not what that says at all. He said he doesn't know, but that he would guess that it's around 60%....which is almost exactly the same as the percent fully vaccinated in the US as a whole. He doesn't say anything at all about anyone "refusing" the vaccine (and, incidentally, Dr. Fauci doesn't work at the CDC). Do you have any evidence of that? ETA: oops, I meant that it's 20% HIGHER than the percent fully vaccinated in the US as a whole (which includes the elderly who were generally eligible earlier than people who are still working)

Re: schools: this is far from settled science: https://www.chalkbeat.org/2021/5/10/22429536/study-covid-spread-cases-schools-transmission-texas My prediction about the take from researchers of the future: "duh" I think schools can open relatively safely with a lot of precautions even in areas with relatively high transmission rates--but it's clear that many, many, MANY schools in the US have not been taking those precautions. And absolutely everywhere I've seen that has kept track of both student and teacher incidence rates has shown that the rates for teachers is higher than for the general population in an area even when student rates are not. I've kept track of incidence rates in school districts near me without mask mandates and they are regularly 8-10 TIMES as high as the general population for teachers and 2-3 times as high for students.

I’m not sure asking questions like “but don’t you trust the vaccines?” When that’s already been addressed a dozen times can really accomplish your goal.

I'm perfectly happy to mask in public indoor spaces until everyone has had a chance to be vaccinated, including kids. I do not feel the same obligation toward people who choose not to vaccinate, but we're not there yet. ETA: or until numbers are very low. 30,000+ cases a day is not low.

People have said over and over again here that the issue is not vaccinated people not masking, it's unvaccinated people not masking because these new guidelines will essentially give them permission to stop. I think that what you're saying here is the intention behind the new guidelines; my worry is what the actual effects will be.

oops--double post

Yes, but the guideline I've seen from the WHO, I think it is, is that a positivity rate of under 5% means you're catching most cases. The higher the positivity rate, the more cases are being missed. I wonder if anyone has looked more deeply at positivity rates across age groups to see if that patterns holds up in other places/times.

Going back a bit to the talk about how much underreporting there is or isn't in kids....I just noticed today on the Georgia department of health website that the positivity rate for kids right now is more than twice as high as for the general population (8 vs 3.6%). The most likely explanation for that (and maybe the only likely explanation) is that we're missing a higher percentage of cases in kids. I've always had my suspicions about how much higher the incidence rate for teachers is than for students anywhere I've seen that keeps track of both; this would seem to support my suspicions.

well, you quoted me talking about school mask mandates and teachers and students. Re: out in public--no, there's nothing you can do about it or at least nothing anyone WILL do about it...but I would be absolutely shocked if unvaccinated people continued to mask at the same rate now as before the announcement. The messaging matters, and I think this messaging is ill timed and potentially very damaging. I hope I'm wrong.

And I'm saying that of course there's something you can do about it. You can continue to mandate masks in schools until everyone is eligible to be vaccinated. That's what most schools have done all year. My husband's been wearing a mask 8 hours a day all year, and he's happy to keep doing it until all of his students can be vaccinated (and since it's high school, they're all eligible now; I would be fine with lifting the mask mandate in high schools in another 6 weeks or whatever when they'll all be fully vaccinated if they want to be. But school will be over here by then).

Of course there is. Not in every setting; it was an always an issue that underpaid workers were supposed to enforce mandates in retail stores. But in my husband's school district, the mask mandate has been strictly enforced with little drama this year. Once they lift it for "vaccinated people" (but don't require proof of vaccination) any teacher or student over 15 can claim to be vaccinated and take their masks off. Even though they're in crowded indoor conditions with people who aren't yet eligible for vaccines. And while there have always been unvaccinated anti-maskers who like to make a show of it, I think there have been more who've quietly gone along with it to avoid confrontation but who will happily ditch the mask now that they have cover for it.

He didn't apply to Tech, so I didn't look into it as closely, but I don't think so. I have heard of Tech being especially picky about lab sciences for homeschoolers, but that was years ago, and I don't know how it is currently. ETA: just peeked at their website. This is all they say about homeschoolers: In order to holistically review students from unaccredited home school programs, our Admission Committee recommends submission of supplementary information to demonstrate academic ability in core academic areas. While not required, one or more of the following items are particularly helpful in our assessment of achievement and excellence in math, foreign language, social studies/social science and lab science: Previous college coursework AP/IB test scores

I would have no problem with relaxing mask standards if I thought it was only going to affect the behavior of vaccinated people. You can see from the responses in this very thread that that is absolutely not the case.

heh. Well, I'll name the University of Georgia as being a PITA for homeschoolers. And I think that IS a big deal since it's our state flagship...I know plenty of homeschoolers who are intimidated enough by the requirements that they don't bother to apply. They require evidence of completion for all college prep classes in the form of a test score or a grade on an accredited transcript. I e-mailed them to ask if they'd be reevaluating this based on subject tests going away (they don't accept CLEP tests) and was told that no, the only options would be DE or another accredited course or an AP test. A subject test was our plan to satisfy the requirement for biology for my 9th grader, and now that's out. So either he'll need to take another biology class at some point (he's doing it at home this year), or he won't be applying there, or he'll apply and cross his fingers that they overlook it. (Not applying there isn't necessarily a huge deal for our family, since we get enough need based aid at a lot of schools that they can compete with in-state public prices, but it would be for a lot of families with higher incomes than we have but not high enough to pay for a private school out of state). Hamilton and Oberlin were the ones my oldest applied to that wanted some kind of portfolio, but the wording was vague, so we just sent in some of his work from various subjects, and he was accepted to both so I guess it was good enough. Emory wanted 3 subject tests from homeschoolers. He only had 2, but he applied anyway and was eventually offered a space off the waitlist, so that appears not to have been a strict requirement either. ETA: just checked Emory's website to see how they've responded to this wacky year, and they now just say ACT or SAT for homeschool applicants and that subject tests or AP scores are "helpful" ...when my son applied he was told specifically that AP scores could not stand in for subject test scores.

Yes. Trials are happening now; I think I saw some speculation recently that there'd be a vaccine approved for younger kids by fall. Which is all the more reason I wish the CDC had at least held off until schools were out for summer.

At least two school districts in my area have already changed their policies on masks in response to the CDC's announcement. With no indication that there will be any proof of vaccination status whatsoever required. One of the districts hasn't required masks for students at all this year but is now no longer requiring them for vaccinated teachers. So to recap: a school district that has steadfastly refused to follow CDC guidelines about masks in schools all year long took only a few hours to decide THIS CDC announcement means they can do away with what few precautions they WERE taking. We'll wait and see if this decreases vaccine hesitancy at all, but so far all I'm seeing where I am is stuff like that. People are taking it as an official pronouncement that the pandemic is over.

I definitely think that's the idea. I'm just skeptical about how effective it will be and worried that it will backfire in other ways and undo some of the progress we've made.

The current 7 day average in the US is well over 30,000 new cases/day (and more than 600 deaths). About the same as back in September before the fall/winter surge. If it were really 500, this would be a very different conversation.

The responses so far here show exactly why I think this was premature; the guidelines for unvaccinated people are no different today than they were last week, but people will absolutely act as if they are. And no judgement--I think parents of young kids have just been put in a really crappy position. As for my 8 year old, he's very cautious and a super rule follower, so he will certainly want to continue to mask. So for us it just made his summer vacation a whole lot more filled with anxiety, I imagine, which will, in turn, make it a lot harder on me.

It was a lot more work for ME, as the parent, since I had to do all the counselor parts myself, but the application process for my son was pretty straightforward. There were a couple of schools that had more stringent testing requirements for homeschoolers and there were a couple that wanted some sort of portfolio in addition to the regular application materials (so make sure to save some examples of work across subjects. Lab reports seemed to be one thing that schools wanted to see in particular). But he definitely wasn't treated with hostility! He applied mostly to small LACs; we did not get the impression that any of them were unused to dealing with homeschool applicants. ETA: our state flagship was definitely the most PITA one to deal with; they have very specific requirements to "prove" you've met their college prep course requirements. But they were the exception and not the rule (and he did get accepted there and offered a spot in the honors program. But he was fairly gleeful about turning them down).

If you look at Kenyon, definitely look at Oberlin, too. They have good merit, but, of course, they're also just really expensive to start with. But excellent need based aid, in our experience, if that might come into play for you. Selective, but not at the same level as the very top LACs. And you're not likely to find anywhere more LGBT friendly.