[YOUR Pros and Cons of homeschooling]

Pros: 
Freedom and flexibility in what and how we study (reaching their learning style, their level, covering the things we value, creating an atmosphere of learning, etc)
Schedule flexibility, especially in early years
Close relationships with and between my children
Dad can be an active part of school

Cons:
This is a hard job, with no pay, and little appreciation (sometimes outright hostility)
Flexibility can turn into contortions that nearly break you (I had to learn to stand firm on some things)
Costs
Finding a peer group is difficult (smaller cross section of people, and with varying educational standards/expectations, and some people very exclusive especially on basis of faith)
Dealing with the outside world that doesn't know homeschooling or has stereotypes/prejudices
 

[Vent about defining Homeschool]

6 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 "Homeschooling" is becoming more common but actual all-at-home homeschooling is becoming less and less common.  I have had this reaction more than once - including from those who identify as  homeschoolers but are actually under the auspices of either public or private teachers. 

Yes, and it is at times like this that there seems to be a need for distinction between receiving an education at home (with outside cover/charter/virtual/state-overseen help) and “homeschooling” (independently taking responsibility for your child’s education).  I neither want there to be an expectation of an “official” transcript nor have uninvited intrusion from the state into what we are doing at home. I too have used state sponsored cover schools, and have no ill will or think they are any less, but think there should be a distinction. What distinction I’m not entirely sure.

[A familiar writing problem?]

Do they actually know how to compose an essay? You said “when they were Homeschoolers” so I’m assuming they are in public or private school. Could it be they weren’t given enough strategies for essays while at school? 

Or is it that they are trying to hold and organize everything in their head? That works for some. But others need to get bits out on paper first, even small notes, to organize visually.  Or are they uncertain how to answer the essay prompt? Maybe need some guidance on generating ideas?

I think simply stating at the computer is not working, but maybe they are attempting to work and just can’t juggle it all in their heads or need direction. At any rate, I’d get to the bottom of what is going on while they stare at the computer (what are they thinking about, trying, struggling with, etc) and go from there.

[Sci Fi recommendations?]

@Lori D. and @Tanaqui @Florimell

Thank you each for the comments, and your efforts to help me find something I’m having a hard time putting a finger on myself. 

I’m an Earthsea fan myself though (I was actually listening to my copy of Tehanu as I washed dishes today!) but I have not read her Sci-Fi yet, so something to look forward to. I love CS Lewis, but Out if the Silent Planet somehow I disliked but maybe I should revisit it? I will look at the others mentioned, thank you.

I had no intention of diminishing film as one of the humanities - nor well done TV. Those things can definitely be done with film, and you are right that many people consume books whole before thinking about them, and it is possible to revisit either media. I just know my boy, and know what he needs and some things he really doesn’t need, for the time being. And learning to stop and reflect is a big thing (not just for literature studies). Maybe I Robot really is good in this regard too because the vignettes are easy stopping points of discussion. Anyway, some things to think on.

Again, thank you!

[AoPS PreAlgebra how to handle apparent lack of mastery]

17 minutes ago, Kendall said:

Those of you who have had children have very little retention, do you have any theories about why?

I

 

Learning style 

[Sci Fi recommendations?]

18 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

The sex in the Dragonriders series is really rapey. No matter how marginal it is, I wouldn't want to hand it off to a kid as preferred reading.

Why don't you like alternate history?

Thanks for that insight. Rape, though a terrible reality, is not an issue I’m hoping to start with.

I don’t dislike alternative history (or  dystopian for that matter). I’m trying to avoid alternative history here for a similar reason I’m going for external discussion points - they’re much more hypothetical, sterile, or ex situ if you will, where he can begin to examine issues on their merits, objectively, without having to look inward or to things that have personally affected him/his reality.  I know, it’s very limited and controlled.  We will continue to move outward to the harder/bigger issues (and inward, to the personal, moral issues), but this is where I want to start. I sound like a control freak - that may be partly true, but it’s also about knowing my kid and my near and far goals.

[Sci Fi recommendations?]

8 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Not trying to be argumentative or suggest things that don't fit your specifications, but just so you know, your restrictions make it pretty tough to find works that fit all your needs. Most good, discussionable Sci-Fi works ARE about tough issues or involve topics or elements that don't work for you at this time.

For example, your DS has already read one pretty adult classic sci-fi work: Ender's Game is extremely violent -- child soldiers, child-on-child violence, and psychologically distressing elements. And while it's a fun read, Dragonriders of Pern is a fantasy-based world with only a time-jumping element as the closest thing to being sci-fi (and, adult elements, as pointed out by previous poster). And Canticle for Leibowitz is a great book, but involves an element you may not be interested in -- it follows the Catholic Church through 3 ages of a post-Apocalyptic world -- and, as the previous poster mentioned, it's a meaty book and would be a much better choice for late high school rather than a "first exposure" into discussion.

Below are a few things I could come up with, although not all of them strictly adhere to your desired guidelines. Movies and TV are often a better fit for starting with Sci-Fi and discussion, so I am starting you off with some ideas of classic sci-fi films to watch and discuss. Also, short stories can be terrific for first starting out with discussion. Hope something here helps, and BEST of luck in finding what fits for your family. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Consider watching/discussing classic sci-fi movies and/or TV:
- classic episodes of the original Star Trek and The Next Generation series
- Metropolis (1927) -- silent B&W; social uprising; misuse of technology
- The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) -- warning about misuse of technology
- Forbidden Planet (1956) -- choices about forbidden knowledge/great power
- The Time Machine (1960 and/or 2002 versions) -- time travel
- Planet of the Apes (1961) -- ethical treatment/rights of others
- 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) -- evolution, exploration, transcendence 
- Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan (1982) -- consequences of choices
- Tron (1982) -- computer hacking/protection/ethics
- Wall-E (2008) -- environmental issues; what does it mean to be human

and two meaty films for discussing for high school or after you've discussed a number of movies:
- Gattaca (1997) -- genetics/medical ethics 
- The Truman Show (1999) -- ultimate reality TV show and the ethics of it

Speculative Fiction, rather than straight-up Sci-Fi meaty YA titles for beginning discussions:
Tuck Everlasting (Babbitt)
Below the Root (Snyder)

Sci-Fi short stories
The Fun They Had (Asimov)
All Summer in a Day (Bradbury)
There Will Come Soft Rains (Bradbury)
Sound of Thunder (Bradbury)
The Nine Billion Names of God (Clarke) 
The Last Dog (Paterson)
Flowers for Algernon (Keyes) -- speculative fiction rather than sci-fi; be sure to get the short story and NOT the longer version which has mature content
Science Fiction Hall of Fame Vol 1 1930-1960s -- short story anthology; preview to see which will work for you

Discussionable YA Dystopias (not JUST about dystopia, which is why I suggest these):
Among the Hidden (Haddix)
The Giver (Lowry) 
City of Ember; People of Sparks, Diamond of Darkhold (Du Prau) -- late elementary reading level, but discussionable ideas
When the Tripods Came (Christopher) -- dystopia based on what if the H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds aliens conquered Earth

Discussionable Sci-Fi
Enchantress From the Stars (Engdahl) -- told from 3 different POV; 2 are sci-fi in feel, 1 is fantasy in feel
The Martian Chronicles (Bradbury) -- collection of loosely connected short stories; several would be very discussionable
I Robot (Asimov) -- collection of loosely connected short stories; several would be very discussionable
Looking Backward (Bellamy)
The Invisible Man (Wells) -- a bit more speculative fiction than straight-up sci-fi, but discussionable topics (science ethics and choices)

Enjoyable, "Clean" Sci-Fi -- not sure how discussionable
Star Soldiers (Norton)
The Martian (Weir) -- a LOT of 4-letter words, although here is a "cleaner" classroom edition; also, it's more of a shipwreck survival adventure with a lot of science ideas rather than a philosophical springboard

Thank you for the many suggestions.  I realize I’ve drawn some narrow margins. It’s hard to convey with complete clarity the parameters I am hoping for, so I erred on the side of caution (eg the personal violence in Enders Game is a part of the story but the majority of fighting is simulated group combat/war games, and that’s fine; but in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep the idea of personal violence is closely examined - and frequently committed or recalled - and that isn’t an area I want to focus on with this kid right now). And yes, most Sci-Fi does tackle hard things - it’s actually the biggest reason I like Sci-fi - I’m just trying to craft my part of introducing him to the big thoughts and how to go about discussing and contemplating them.

I suppose I’ve drawn the lines tight because I’m hoping to go about this intentionally - not because I don’t want him to be “exposed” to things but because I want our discussion to begin gently, not with personal/internal things but with external things. Also, he’s gobbled up some things that had great beginning discussion points already that we missed out on while it was fresh (there are even more from your list he’s also already read).  So your suggestion of I, Robot, for example, would be a good one to start talking about what is ethical use of AI, what is sentience, what delineates human and artificial intelligence, how to exercise caution with the use of science and technology - all general, external. And yes we can throw in some TNG episodes focusing on Data or watch Wall-E along the same talking points, and maybe that’s a good plan. But I’m hoping to start in a book, because a book is something you consume on portions, you pause to chew or set it down to digest for a while, whereas movies and TV you tend to only reflect upon completion.

I know, I overthink things. I really do appreciate the input.

[Sci Fi recommendations?]

21 minutes ago, Ellie said:

There are some mature adult things in each of the Dragonriders of Pern (the original trilogy).

Thanks for the heads of.

[Sci Fi recommendations?]

25 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Oh, I nearly forgot.

 

A Canticle for Leibowitz.  

I don't recall a lot of very mature content.  It is somewhat dystopian, but not in the current popular dystopian way.  It's a dystopia that spans thousands of years through the rebuilding of society.  I found it VERY thought provoking, though I will be honest, I was in college when I read it.  

Thanks, I had seen this a couple times in my searching but am totally unfamiliar with it. I will look closer. I will also look into Anne McCaffrey (I don't believe he has read any of her books).

[Sci Fi recommendations?]

I am looking for sci fi lit options for DS (8th grader).  

He's both mature in some ways (connects ideas between books, reads at a high level) and immature in others (goofy, likes things to be exciting).  He has read some sci fi in the past (Wrinkle in Time series, Robot Wars series, Enders Game series, Jekyll and Hyde, several Jules Verne, The Time Machine, War of the Worlds) but when he read them he was reading for entertainment.  I am looking to move gently into philosophical discussion with him using sci fi as a base, and new literature (I realize that several of those I listed are great fodder for discussion, but I am looking for new books to spark the discussion and he will then make the connections back to the books he read when he was younger).  And I am hoping to stay away from plain dystopian, alternate history sci fi, fantasy, and from more mature content (we are not looking to explore sex and sexuality in this discussion; extreme personal violence is out, general war and fighting is probably fine; no focus on theology/religion exploration).  I am hoping to explore other philosophical ideas (eg general metaphysics with virtual reality, or general epistemology with artificial intelligence. or ethics with alien life, etc).  So the other thing I am really hoping for with all of this is literary quality, books that stick with you that you reread to get more out of.  

I am only looking for a couple of books to study one quarter this year. Any suggestions would be very welcome.

[AoPS PreAlgebra how to handle apparent lack of mastery]

Alcumus practice helps - DS works for an hour a day, doing some book work and the remainder in Alcumus.

[Online classes without chat boxes or other distractions?]

Art of Problem Solving has only text (no video, but there are figures put up by teacher), and the comments are moderated before they make it on the group screen.  Very LOW distraction level.

Lukeion has no chat - you enter your responses and the teacher sees them and may even comment/share with class but there’s no conversation with other students.

OnlineG3 is very strict about off-topic chat, and will call you out in front of the class if you are entering things which aren’t helpful/onpoint 

[Productivity apps recommendations?]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

It looks like it could be fun for establishing habits. Does it work offline or only online?

And would it give all my private habit info to the whole world via google?  I can imagine some things I might not want to share with Google. 

It needs to be online to work. It sometimes asks if you want to share level ups  on FB but you can always decline.  Their privacy policy says it collects anonymous data - like just about any social media - but it isn’t as if anyone can see what you are doing by going to the website (or a search engine).  If you post in the forums they can see your comments, just like here, but not tasks.  Even though I’m in a party with family members I can’t see their tasks.  I will say the app can be a little glitchy, but it’s fine for my uses. 

[Productivity apps recommendations?]

I use Habitica ? 

[Alternatively, what curriculum added the most value and got done?]

Not a curriculum but the thing that added the most value and got done was Morning Basket.

[Why do we accept the idea of age grades?]

51 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

This is what I’ve tried failingly with my ds. I kept telling him what grade he was in, but he’s not blind and deaf, he’s figured out where he is (thank you books with grade levels printed on front and coop class schedules that identify geometry and algebra 2 as 9-10 grade) so he would respond when questioned by telling people what grade level he was working through in each major subject. It is/was a confusing question to him. He’s always taken it as a question of ability/skills. I’m trying to get through to my children that these people are only interested in your age. My kids can’t be the only ones confused by what “grade” they are in. 

We actually did have to have a little talk with all the kids when my oldest started to do something similar. I overheard her once, and just pulled them together to explain right then and there. But all it took was saying that we have freedom as Homeschoolers to work where you are, and people are really meaning to ask what age group you are in. End of story. 

Mind if you have a gifted child you will likely have to have other talks, not about grade level but about how we are all different and some of us have more extreme differences, asynchronous development, how to relate to peers that aren’t age mates, etc.  This is true of gifted kids in just about any situation - you will have to be more deliberate about helping them deal with differences so those difference don’t lead to isolation, anger, apathy, arrogance, or other states of poor emotional and mental being. And that is something they would have to deal with even without grade levels, because most people tend to include in their play a narrow band of age peers (eg most 10 year olds don’t play with 2 year olds and most 11 year olds are unwelcome to hang out with 18 year olds for social/development reasons).

 

[Why do we accept the idea of age grades?]

For me, I can’t fully reject the idea of grades because 1) we live in a world that uses it interchangeably with age and my kids participate in that world (sports, drama class, summer camps, etc) and my kids needed a term to relate with public school peers on, 2) we are still compared to grade norms (educational evaluation, end of year testing), 3) it can serve as a guide at times when you are unsure of what to do next in homeschooling and need a starting reference (eg finding curriculum), 4) I have to do high school transcripts and many college want them done by year/grade level.

If abandoned, do you suggest a replacement?

i don’t see how it causes confusion to children working subjects at individual levels unless you are emphasizing the grade level of the materials.  I never told my kids “your math is 8th grade level, your writing is 4th grade level, your science is 6th grade level, and your history is 5th grade level. Oh and you’re a fifth grader.” I just said “here’s what we are using for 5th grade.”  

[What to use with Writing & Rhetoric?]

We used MCT grammar, practice books, and poetry, and read through the writing books (did not complete assignments). We did literature reading in addition to what’s in W&R.  Lively Latin reinforced grammar and vocabulary. And we included critical thinking/Logic in our Language Arts rotation as well (that was our LA on Friday every week), penmanship/copywork, and poetry memorization.  

[AoPS Online Classes -- Homework Question]

We’ve done 4 classes online with them, and all “homework” is online (alcumus topics plus challenge problems, including full written solution for one).  The book was used inbthag you were supposed to come to the class discussion having read the section for the week.  My kids did some problems from the book, more so when it was the digital book for some reason.  I think the book was valuable for us even if we didn’t do all the problems in it.

[What are your goals for end of first grade?]

Grow a love of learning

Read fluently at an early 2nd grade or high level

Form letters correctly and write simple sentences (capital, punctuation).

Segment words for spelling and attempt to spell by sound

Know addition fact families/part whole relationships thru 12+12

Understand multiplication in various contexts (repeated addition, arrays, sets of, scale, etc)

Understand base 10 relationships, and numbers to 1,000

Understand the passage of time and recording of historical events as a way to organize the past

Basic map use (coordinate grids, compas, legend/key/symbols, etc)

Expand understanding of different peoples all around the world and one’s own place in it

Develop habit of asking “I wonder if...” and testing own ideas

Routine (habit) of daily rhythm (wake, dress, eat, chores, school, etc)

How to tie shoes

How to make a peanut butter sandwich 

 

 

[What does everyone use for elementary English/LA/grammar?]

MCT

[What curriculum have you loved the most?]

MCT Grammar (we’ve used 4 different levels, love them all, and his poetics too)

Singapore PM (each child used it at least one year, one for 4 years, always solid and reliable)

AoPS/BA (the kids still read the guide books for fun, and oldest has soared in math because of AoPS)

RightStart Math B (A was good also, B was dynamite, again each child has used RS outright or I’ve incorporated RS into their other math)

SOTW 1 (we had less interest/success with each subsequent year but 1 was fantastic)

I love LToW, my kids not as much, but it has been the best writing program we have used as far as what it teaches and what they have learned.

100EZ - simple, got them up and reading and confident with no fuss or busyness

GSWL - almost forgot this one but it was perfect intro to Latin and a springboard to further studies

[Shakespeare resources for elementary grades (besides Bruce Colville)?]

Usborn also has Where’s Will (like where’s Waldo). There’s a spread summarizing one play (with illustrations and text) and the next spread is a busy scene from the context of the play and you e got to find Shakespeare hiding in plain sight there. There are also some other things to find (characters, etc).  

Have you seen the BBC animated Tales from Shakespeare?

[Literature at 5-6th grade Level for younger but advanced readers]

I highly recommend the book Some of My Best Friends are Books (as a resource for you), and using the ARBookfind website (which allows you to set reading level and interest level independent of each other, as well as topics of interest).

I have had a similar situation with my kids. I can’t remember everything they read at 9-10, though there was a lot of non-fiction.  There was also a lot of fantasy/sci-fi/mythology/legend/fairytale (Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, The Golden Fleece, Pyle’s Robin Hood, White’s Sword in the Stone, Journey to the Center of the Earth, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea).  This was also when the love of Sherlock Holmes seemed to start. Black Beauty. Treasure Island. Though it isn’t a really high lexile level all my kids liked The Number Devil at that age because of the fun ideas in math.

Classics tend to be a “safe” place as far as content goes (no impropriety, angst), as well as a source for advanced reading level because of the language (and that they didn’t dumb things down trying to reach kids). 

 

[ISO one leveled curric for 8, 6, and 4 yo]

You might like Build Your Library Level 1 for history, science, art, and literature. And with LOE Essentials you can teach to multiple levels, covering reading, writing, spelling, and phonics (and basic grammar). Math I really think you’ll have to split up? 

http://buildyourlibrary.com/purchase-level-1-curriculum/

https://www.logicofenglish.com/products