Targhee
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Posts posted by Targhee
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48 minutes ago, StellaM said:
So, I'm a little uncomfortable at some assumptions being made in the latter turns of this thread.
From my local observations, it seems pretty clear that part of a significant increase in homeschoolers is a cohort whose children are being failed by school. Parents quite often do NOT want to remove their children from the schools; they are pushed into it as a 'last and best option'. Some of these parents have financial and other resources; some of them don't. Both sets find themselves homeschooling, often suddenly, and without support.
Yes, the better resourced parents can buy what they can't provide themselves....tutors, expensive curriculum, classes.
The parents who can't ? It is totally appropriate, imo, even at high school level, to share the best of the free or low cost resources. Khan Academy is actually a pretty decent resource; Crash Course and Big History are others. These parents are not 'failing' their children - imo their children have already been failed by the education system. From that point on, any resource the parents offer the child in an atmosphere of safety and a desire to meet at least some fo the child's needs is an improvement.
Caveat - of course not all 'I won't/can't pay for that!' parents fall into the above group. That would be a ludicrous claim, and I'm not making it. Enough do that it is worth our while always seeking out and recommending the best of the free/low cost stuff in addition to our other recommendations.
Re labs - my ds is enrolled in a science class purely to do labs. He's the first one of mine to access chemistry properly as a subject. Dd2 was in school 7-10 and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of labs she did. Dd1 focused on biology and physics, both of which were relatively easy to teach at home. Accessing high quality science instruction is a problem, but for me it's been a problem at home and at school.
We do make a lot of assumptions when we only get a snippet on FB. But we *have* to make some to fill in the gaps of missing information, and it isn’t a far leap to add in other things. That is not to say it is a fair or correct assumption, but that I don’t think people are trying to judge any particular person - I think what we are trying to say is there’s a problem in homeschooling, and whether it is parent attitudes and misconceptions, school problems, student problems, or a combination of all, it seems to be that more and more kids are being undereducated (or at minimum under-taught) in the name of homeschooling, which is problematic for the individuals and for the perception of homeschoolers as a whole. In cases like these - parents feeling the school has failed the child and homeschool is the only option - is throwing free curriculum without instruction or mentoring in how to use the materials really a step up? Whether it’s the best a parent can do or not, is seems to be less than enough. We can’t tease out what the situation is if it is not presented, but I think few would argue that quick, easy, no-parent-involved, is not a recipe for success, except in the most driven individuals.
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5 hours ago, 2ndGenHomeschooler said:
I didn’t even bother responding. Too many other responses already suggesting Easy Peasy and Khan academy. I’m in a no regulation state so unschooling and extremely relaxed homeschooling are very popular. Most people who comment on these things push the quick/easy/cheap/free viewpoint, regardless of the age of the child.
Sometimes I pass over commenting, feeling they aren’t after sound advice anyway. But other times my sense of justice for their kids is too strong and I just.have.toSay.SOMETHING I suppose it goes back to my questions from earlier about whether we have a duty or responsibility to combat the misconceptions about “free” “easy” “handsoff” and the like, if not to help keep a good name for homeschooling then for those poor kids who are receiving a “free, easy, hands-off education.” ?
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2 minutes ago, PeachyDoodle said:
I know right! Several people said as much. Out of curiosity I had a look at his profile... and he's an AP teacher!
Uh, what???
ETA why would you not have curriculum from your school, and why would you have used LfC for AP or even high school??
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1 hour ago, maize said:
We're a couple of weeks in. I'm coping with a logistics nightmare with kids in part time or full time school at four different schools and some stuff still at home. My oldest goes to school for two classes, two days a week. Second does a project based program two days a week but all his core stuff at home. The next three are in school full time, two different schools and three different schedules (because of half day kindy) and then I'm juggling a three year old and one year old.
Things have been a bit rocky so far.
My heart goes out to you! Last year we had kids in 1) Ft, 2) half day K, 3) dual enrollment, tech center, and LDS Seminary, and 4) two electives at school and rest home. And to boot there’s an A day B day for the high school/tech center/seminary, a T/Th and M/W/F schedule for college dual enrollment, no bus to school for K, and every Wed the elem let our 2 hours early and the middle/high started 2 hours late ? It was a logistical nightmare!!!
This year is better since youngest is home full time, and oldest takes time between seminary and dual enrollment to study on campus, and DS’s electives are 1st and 2nd period so he can ride the bus to the middle school. I’m just wishing my oldest *wanted* her license - it would make a lot of things easier. At any rate, good luck with the year!! Sorry it’s crazy ?
We just finished week 3. A few bumps, but nothing terrible so I’ll classify as a good start.
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We have used US and Standards (CA) editions. Besides what is described in that link above my observation is that the HIGs in standards are slightly better, and the Standards texts continue in full color through at least level 5 (haven’t used 6) where’s in the US Edition I think it switches after 2nd. Also, Standards has more review built in. US has more things correlated to it (eg CWP, IP, etc).
Each one of my children's Math journeys have been slightly different but when we have used Singapore we use US in 1st-2nd and Standards in 3-5th - it’s mostly arbitrary based on what I could get at certain points in time. Currently my 1st grader is using US Ed 1A with IP and games/activities from RS and Miquon. Really you don’t need to supplement with Singapore, I just gave my favorite activities or things I think will work for this learner, and we are moving at an accelerated pace so I want more games practice and less pencil practice.
Its hard to go wrong with either.
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My Dd used it in 7th. It is a good text, and “early high school” is probably a good description. EO Wilson is the father of ecology, and his text reflects this (personally I love that and it will probably be a good thing for your wildlife biologist wanna be). We did separate labs (I taught biology lab at co-op that year and I have people text options of RSO Bio 2 - which my marine biologist wanna be DS did as a 5th grader - Life on Earth, Apologia, and the CK12 middle and high school books). My Dd who used LOE is now dual enrolled in college introductory biology and finding that LOE was a good prep for it.
Just a warning about the iBooks - they are HUGE and take forever to download, so be patient. Also I suggest downloading only one of the “books” - there are seven IIRC - at a time and deleting it before adding the next one.
ETA - I did add labs I pulled together, and tests that I wrote for each semester. I was a Wildlife biologist and a biology teacher in a former life, so that was actually fun to do.
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On 8/28/2018 at 8:32 AM, hjffkj said:
I am not a fan of MLMs either. The whole business model angers me. But I've never known anyone who got sucked into one feel negatively about it when it didn't pan out, even if they didn't break even. Mind you, I don't know anyone who invested tons of money upfront like you have to if you sold LuLaRoe.
Do you think it’s true feelings, or trying to save face/console their pride?
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Rso bio2 - lots of room for independence work, it’s well laid out, and solid science.
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Thanks for all the input! I made some minor changes to wording taking in the suggestions. Moms all seemed to respect it, i think there was only one family out of 10 at the meeting who didn’t sign up. Onward to starting classes in two weeks!
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8 minutes ago, JennyD said:
Hmm. I have middle schoolers and would find the comment sort of off-putting. At this point I would only consider drop-off classes for my 13yo not because I am looking for babysitting -- he is old enough to stay home by himself -- but because it seems bizarre to require me to stay nearby. I would interpret such a requirement as meaning that either the teacher is very anxious about teaching middle schoolers and/or the class is anticipated to be full of children with serious behavioral difficulties.
Can I ask what the rationale is for requiring parents of older children to stay nearby? Is the class drawing from a very large geographical area? Are you worried primarily about genuine emergencies or just children being difficult? I am just wondering if there is a perhaps a friendlier/more neutral way to express the requirement.
Fair point. The expectation because of younger kids. We could put an age limit, ie if your child is under the age of 8 please stay on the premises and be readily available if needed.
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3 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:
Will the library allow you to collect a supply donation? Our local ones will allow that, and its a way to get some financial commitment out of the parents.
I would give priority to families with older kids if that is your actual goal. Or I like the enroll older groups first idea.I'm not sure I understand how this is supposed to work. You offer three classes - art, math, and literature. Does each grade do each class on a rotating basis so they are doing math once a month, art once a month and lit once a month? or do all the older kids do math, the middle lit and the younger art? I think once a month isn't enough to get into a groove doing a subject and I think you'll have a lot of people flake out on the week covering whatever it is they are least interested in. A lot of kids won't be interested in all three unless they are really fun, project/not academic.
They are once a month. They are enrichment, project/theme based and intended to be fun group activities. There are very very few academic Homeschoolers in this town, and there are very few enrichment options for Homeschoolers (eg no art classes for kids at all in town, no math/Sci/tech except summer or through school, basically nothing geared towards HSers)
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12 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:
I still don't see how parents can be 100% sure their child will be ready for the class and like it. That insistence will keep out decent people who make no guarantees on their 7yo...I'd rather see what that means (readiness and participation), and know whether my older children can stay if my younger washes out. IOW, requirements and consequences, briefly, and not an expectation that parents can tell the future.
They also cannot possibly tell that the group is a good fit before even meeting everyone and trying a class. (We went to a new group once, after I got along very nicely with the other parents online, only to learn when we got there that they were radical unschoolers, Y2k preppers, and gun fanatics. This translated to crazy paranoid talk about the government, open carry of loaded weapons, and feral kids, at the meet&greet coffee hour.)
Affording them the right to part ways if they want - no, you don't. You have no authority over whether people leave and what they do next. That's authoritarian and condescending in tone.
"This is not a drop off child watching service," is also condescending. You already defined the goals of the group and you already required parents to stay nearby and alert.
Tomorrow is an over and a preview. Each point on here will be more thoroughly explained in discussion then, including what constitutes readiness in our best estimation. I am planning a 10 minute math activity for each age group, and I’m not sure what the other moms are doing as a preview. When I put the offer out for math circles 5 months ago I answered a lot of questions and let everyone know I would do a preview at the end of August. That’s the best I can do.
As far as baby sitting comment, maybe it is condescending but if you never intended to use it as a baby sitting service I doubt you’d be offended. If you have another suggestion I do have time to change it before the morning.
As far as “afford you the right” it was intended to convey a mutual equal footing, to say that this isn’t some kind of binding contract (and you stand to lose nothing if you leave, like $$) and you don’t need our permission and neither do we need your permission to say “this isn’t a good fit.” I don’t want to be authoritarian or condescending, but I do want to be clear and up front, so how would you convey the idea?
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I changed a few things and ended up with the below expectations. We will explain with some specifics at our meeting tomorrow. Thanks to all for input.
We are teaching these classes with the intention of providing our kids regular association with a community of peers in a learning environment, at the same time without overburdening families with too great a commitment. We are parents, like you, and have families, homeschools, and outside responsibilities which all need our time and attention. However, we also recognize the value of community and know that it takes effort to establish one. We want this to be a mutually beneficial experience and therefore ask participating families to meet these expectations:
• Families should be committed by attending each week
• Families should be committed by being prepared having done any outside work
• Families should be committed by participating in class activities
• Parents must stay close by (in the library or at the park) and be available by text to
come right away if needed. This is not a drop-off child-watching service.
• Parents need to pick up their children promptly at the end of class
• Parents need to be certain about their child(ren)’s ability and desire to participate in
group learning, and whether the group is a good fit, before committing
• Only respectful speech and action will be accepted from participants and teachers
• Families are responsible to obtain their own copy of the book club book each month
• Families will be asked to donate some materials and possibly pay a small amount to
cover art supplies
• Families should check our group Facebook page regularly, and definitely in the hour before class, to be up to date and in case of cancelation
• Priority for space in classes will be given to families with older children participating, and there will be a 10 child cap for the 5-7 year old classes
• Priority for space in classes will be given to families participating in all three classes (Book Club, Math Circle, and Art)
• In the event there is any incompatibility between participants or their parents and these expectations you will be asked to find (or start) an alternate group, and we afford you this same right to part ways
We believe establishing these expectations up front is important to forming a community that will operate well and be long-lasting.-
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44 minutes ago, Arcadia said:
Have you check the library rules for unaccompanied children?
My local library is rather strict about unaccompanied children and city police (which is across the street) has been called when the parent can’t be found for a young child (about kindergarten age and no cellphone or contact information on him). Even though the local librarians can recognize my kids, they still have their cellphones with them whenever I go to the supermarket next to the library to buy stuff. Below quoted is the policy for my local library
“Children age 9 and younger must be accompanied continually by a parent or responsible adult caregiver. A parent or responsible adult caregiver must remain with the children at all times and in the case of an adult caregiver, have emergency contact information with them or available to them.
• If a child age 9 or younger is found to be unaccompanied in the Library, staff will try to locate the parent or responsible adult caregiver to remedy the situation. If a parent or responsible adult caregiver is unavailable, the Police, Santa Clara County Child Protective Services, or other appropriate government agency will be called.
• Children age 10 and older may use the Library without a parent or responsible adult caregiver present, but must be able to reach a parent or responsible adult caregiver immediately, either in person or by phone.”No, I hadn’t even considered it. We live in a state with “free range child” laws in place so it would surprise me, but I will definitely check. Thanks!
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32 minutes ago, mellifera33 said:
I agree with some of the previous posters that with the restrictions you have, it will be very difficult to have the kind of commitment that you want from this group. I'm not terribly experienced with this type of thing, being more of a wallflower than a leader, but in my experience free and committed only works if the families already have strong relationships. Starting something like this from scratch with random families seems difficult. I would complain about flakey homeschoolers, but honestly, I'm one of them. ?
Ya, I’m not sure how to strike the balance. That’s why I’m seeking the advice here. We have three families with shared values and are just trying to add 3-5 more. I’m 2 years new in this place and don’t know lots of people, and of those few Homeschoolers, so that is why we made a public invitation. I tried joining up with a similar group attempt the year we moved here and it fell apart from non-commitment. At this point I’ve had it with flakiness. Life happens (that’s fine, I understand) but more often it is people who just want to enjoy the benefits on their terms without the commitment. I’ve been burned enough times, but it has more to do with the general rise in flakiness, expectation that things are “free,” and expectation to have it customized to what you want. I see this everywhere around me - it is so antithetical to what I value. The way I see this is we are offering something - a community for regular group learning and association, with minimal required of families in terms of time or funds, but instead with commitment to the group/people by being consistent and responsible - and if you share those expectations then we are excited to have you join us. If you don’t then maybe you will be inspired to make your own group.
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7 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:
Also, as far as charging, can you talk to your library about charging a nominal fee at the beginning—say $5 per class per sturdent. It will be refunded when the student attends class. If someone doesn’t show, the money goes to the library. This is to keep peOple from flaking out. People show up more when there’s money on the line.
Also, no exceptions for refunds. Sickness, car problems, whatever but no exceptions. Otherwise people will offer every excuse in the world to claim a refund. Our music teachers work like this already.
Our music teachers work this way too, and I get it.
I do not want to be in charge of funds being redistributed - too big a chance for people to claim they didn’t get their refund and I don’t want to track with receipts - much bigger hassle than we want.
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7 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:
Can you establish a set amount of time for the outside class work. “For middle school level classes, you should expect to have 2 hours of homework per week. For grades 3-5, expect to have 1.5 hours of homework per week. For grades k-2, expect to do 1 hour per werk.”
Id be more likely to participate knowing the amount of time it would take.
Hmmm... possibly? But probably not time frames, instead tasks (eg 6-8th will have one novel a month, math problem set of 4-8 problems, and need to bring required materials for art class).
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2 hours ago, alewife said:
Yes. There are also major issues with the ACT - they also recycle tests and they can invalidate a score years after the student has taken the test. At least with the ACT, they have a larger pool of tests to recycle from so the odds of the same student sitting for the exact same test are lower than with the SAT since the SAT only has a couple years worth of tests to choose from.
The issue with the concordance tables was the main reason why coaches were recommending the ACT.
ETA: Here is a link from College Confidential detailing the havoc the ACT folks have wreaked on innocent students. The stories are heart-breaking. These testing companies have all of the power. It is ridiculous.
These accounts are so frustrating!
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All this talk about score increases causing suspicion, while definitely an issue, only makes the nature of this recent recycled test more aggravating: if you had an unfairly high score because of access to the recycled test *and it’s your first time* sitting the SAT, with no previous score, no one can objectively question your score!
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15 minutes ago, katilac said:
I absolutely detest parents staying in class with their child, lol, so I would never say this. It is my experience that kids act differently when a parent is around, and don't participate as much. And the parents tend to be more disruptive than the kids!
Charge a fee. This will weed out some people who aren't really interested and increase commitment among those who are. You're planning to ask for craft supplies and/or money, and that tends to be a nightmare. If somebody doesn't want to pay at least twenty bucks per kid upfront, they are not interested in the class and are just looking for free babysitting.
Drop the first half of this sentence: We are not collecting or evaluating any work, but outside work is necessary to fully participate in class. Stating that you are not collecting or evaluating any work attracts the wrong kind of parent. You can still do it this way, just no reason to spell it out. The important part is that outside work is required (I'd also drop the word "fully" and just stay outside work is necessary to participate).
Thanks for the specific suggestions!
I think you are right that some kids act very differently with mom right there. So how do you ensure that parents are immediately reachable?
We cannot charge a fee (library use policy, if we charge we can’t use the library).
Yes, dropping the first phrase in that sentence is probably a good idea. Thanks!
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29 minutes ago, school17777 said:
We have had that problem in my area too. I think it is because the older students are too busy to participate in things that are more supplemental than part of their core curriculum. The older students tend to participate in “co-ops” (I think more private school than co-op because drop-off and paid teachers) where they meet once a week all school year and get credit for that class. Since they do that, those students don’t have time to do other groups the other days because they need the time to get all their lessons done.
You could make a rule families need to have at least one student in the 7-14 age range (or whatever age range you want) to participate since that is your target age range.
My old co-op had a rule that you had to have a student at least K age per your school district, otherwise, we had families with the oldest student only being 4 trying to join saying that student was in K. (I made one expection over 15 years because the mom was teaching her 4 year old twins k curriculum and the mom had a lot to offer our co-op that it was a win-win for both of us)
Yes, it bugs me when the K4 moms do this. I was a parent of a precocious 4 year old oldest child who was grade accelerated by our cover school, but I always went by age for activities.
We once lost a family at co-op that had two teenagers and the director invited a family from the wait list with 5 kids 6 and under ? Our nursery was already overflowing and mom nursery leaders were burned out. I totally understand the family that wa Ted to join - I was once the mom of three kids age 4 and younger and it was an exhausting time of life, but it’s also not the time of life where kids need co-op.
I understand about older kids getting serious about studies - that’s why we are only meeting once a week for one hour close to the end of the school day. There is one co-op in town and it’s exclusive and honestly the classes aren’t very rigorous. Other than that there are play groups, and soon there will be a field trip group. So in my mind this is all the more reason to give preference to older kids.
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26 minutes ago, Sherry in OH said:
That being the case, perhaps you should open enrollment for your 3rd grade and up classes first. A week or so later, offer slots in a k-2 session to siblings of enrolled students.
Never thought of this, I’ll consider it. It is essential saying “priority given to families in upper age groups” but maybe not so bluntly. Thanks.
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3 minutes ago, school17777 said:
This is the only part that confuses me, because I don’t understand the reasoning:
- In the event there are more interested families than there is room in classes priority will be given to families with children in multiple age groups
Does this mean that a family with one child will be bypassed for a family with multiple children? This doesn’t really make sense as the family with multiple children may miss more often due to one of the kids getting sick, etc.
I do see your point. But we seem to have a million families with kids 6 and under and much, much fewer with kids in middle school. The reason for the expectation is because our main purpose is to build a community of families and particularly with the older kids - between the three of us instructors we have 5 kids in the upper two age groups and only two in the youngest (plus high schoolers and beyond), the youngers don’t really need it but are along for the ride. And we noticed there’s a huge interest by families where their oldest kid is 5 or 6. If we didn’t give priority to families with multiple ages we’d hit the 10 child capacity for the youngest group and the few families with kids in both older and younger groups would not be able to do it.
So maybe that doesn’t seem fair, but how do we address that we are really looking primarily for families that skew older? This older-younger disproportion has been an issue in every group homeschool setting in every state I’ve lived in. It would be difficult to build a sense of community for the kids if the families of the instructors have participating kids who are 7-14 and the majority of other families have kids 6 and younger.
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3 minutes ago, Tibbie Dunbar said:
(I wish I had let someone else do this, I feel like a really mean person with a hatpin to your balloon):
You'll have to charge, and make them pay up front for each quarter, or they will be wishy washy every single week. Stating expectations is like writing a wishlist to Santa Claus; it just goes out into the ether. I, and many others on these boards, have had the experience of watching literally dozens of people get excited for something and promise to join, only to see ONE person actually follow through - and then she'll leave because nobody else came.
I am literally wincing as I type. I'm sorry.
Oh no need to wince. This isn’t my first foray into offering classes. It is my first in THIS location, and they seem to be flakier than the average flakey homeschooler. But I can’t charge them or I cannot use the library. Also, charging them does give them buy-in but it also can make some people think they can run the show or make unrealistic demands of those trying to do their best. Perhaps my stern tone was an attempt to ward off the flakes, but you’re right they are just words.
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Building handwriting stamina
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
Would he do 10 min free-writing sessions? You can offer prompts, and set a countdown timer, and let him write about whatever (prompt or other). No grading, no sharing unless he wants, no worry about exactness. DS and I have been doing this for 3 weeks and his stamina is improving! He’s always had pencil aversion