I have not used any geometry program with my children yet. FYI, I should mention that it isn't like they are not getting the algebra--just that they are getting it with much hair pulling and over a long period of time. My dd has an 86 average, and my son has a 90 average. I definitely would not want them to go through algebra I again for many reasons. Could you please go into more detail comparing Jacobs Geometry with Jacobs Algebra? Would you consider it better or worse? Easier or harder? More or less engaging? Also, how does it compare with other geometry books in terms of giving a good understanding of proofs? Also, when you say that TT is an anomaly among their books, how do you mean? Do you think it is better than their other products? I am open to other possibilities. It's just that those two top my list right now. I guess I am intrigued by Life of Fred but find it hard to take seriously. I did look at the table of contents and wonder what is left out in order to get through chapters on 14 dimensions, LOL.

I love what you said, Julianna: I was exactly the same way, but it never worked. I even spent a few months trying out unschooling when the oldest were young. Well, they had lots of fun playing with Legos and building sandcastles and reading. They didn't really learn much though. I have recently determined that the idea of "fun" is overrated. Perhaps instead of "fun," we and our children should be asking if something is "satisfying"or "interesting" or "worthwhile." I love singing opera and polyphony, proofreading, translating, and working at my part-time job doing medical transcription. However, rarely do these fall in the category of fun. Instead, they are immensely satisfying tasks that require concentration, skill, and patience instead. I think in the long run, perhaps teaching our children to value things that are satisfying may be more important than valuing fun. That doesn't mean nothing should be fun, but perhaps fun should be more of a break than a constant expectation. All this is nice to say, but I am still frequently met with the question from my 5-year-old, "What can I do that's fun?" If I were starting anew, I would never have introduced the word into our family vocabulary.

Thank you all for such great, thoughtful answers. I guess I'm still torn. I would love to hear more about whether those with experience think that TT is sufficiently rigorous, both for doing well on the SAT and for college-level math preparation. This is further complicated by the fact that my 15-year-old dd states that she is not interested in a math or science career while my 13-year-old ds is currently interested in programming as a potential career. Nonetheless, I would like to use the same math program for both of them. We will be finishing Jacobs Algebra this year before going on to geometry, and I really like the way Jacobs thinks. Before starting it, we compared it extensively with Saxon and really preferred it. Julie, what do you plan to do for Algebra II? Any thoughts about Ask Dr. Callahan as a supplement to Jacobs Geometry? Is there anything else out there that effectively "teaches" using the Jacobs textbook?

We love AAS as it has been the only thing to finally help my 13-year-old son who has a lot of trouble with spelling, and it is solidly working with everyone younger than him. I'm wondering whether you are talking about reviewing the current words or previously mastered ones. Here's what we do: On the first day we go through a new list of words, the children spell them orally. If they don't get it the first time, then I have them use the tiles. That way if it's easy, it's fast, and if they need extra practice, we use the tiles to help with the multisensory aspect. After that, those words all go under review even if they got it so I know it isn't just short-term memory from being introduced previously in the lesson. Then the next day, we start with the card box, and again, the words are done orally. Any that are mastered easily the first time go under the mastered tab. Any that are wrong or questionable at all stay under review. Every 5 or 8 lessons or so, there is a lesson that begins with reviewing mastered cards. At that point, we do what the author recommends and pull out the mastered cards in each section (phonograms, key cards, words, etc.) and go through a somewhat random selection of each. If I see that they are missing words from one set of 10, I go through more words from that section since each set of 10 words focuses on a particular rule of spelling. If one set is easy, I may just do one from that and go on. Does that make sense? I find the tiles helpful, and we use them every day, especially for introducing new concepts in each lesson prior to the new set of words, but when it comes to the word list, we only use them when the word is something less than easy. FYI, we are now in book three, and we don't usually do a whole lesson per day like we did in book one when they were shorter. For my 8-year-old who has a rather short attention span but spells easily, it usually takes us 3 or 4 days to get through a lesson, and I do split the dictated sentences at the end in half, doing half each day. I have never had a 5-year-old capable of doing spelling, but at such a young age, you might consider only doing as much of a lesson as he can concentrate on well rather than making it a negative experience. Charlotte Mason (or at least Karen Andreola) recommends very short (10-15 minute) lessons so that the children can learn to give their whole attention to something for a short amount of time, building up the time as they grow older rather than teaching them the bad habit of giving only half of their attention to something. The more children I have had, the more this makes sense to me.

I'm trying to decide about geometry for next year and was all set to use Jacobs until I just discovered Teaching Textbooks. Now I'm having a hard time deciding. Here's our situation. Last year, my husband was teaching our 15- and 13-year-olds algebra, but a move and job change later, he doesn't have the time. Also, they only got halfway through the book last year. I did well in geometry in college a million years ago (the only course I had to take as a French major), but math in high school was my nemesis, and I just struggled through algebra the whole time. Anyway, long story short, I am no help with their algebra. My 13-year-old gets it pretty well (with some help from Grandma), but it takes him a good 2 hours every day. My 15-year-old goes to him for help. She frequently and he occasionally end up in tears of frustration over it, but we should manage to finish it this year, and they will have made great strides not only in the knowledge of algebra but also in perseverance, assuming we all survive. All that said, is anyone able to compare and recommend Jacobs or the Teaching Textbook Geometry given our situation? Does anybody not like TT? I only find very positive things said about it. I just wish it didn't cost so very much. :bigear:

All I can say is that my oldest two did Apologia Biology last year and hated it.

I am wondering about CW as well. Our experience is the opposite of some people here in that we have used IEW but not CW. I keep seeing various mentions of IEW being very formulaic and just wanted to point out the opposite side. In TWSS, Andrew Pudewa states several times that the idea is to learn the various dress-ups and sentence starters and use them until (and only until) they are mastered. After that, they don't need to be on the checklist anymore. They are a tool for learning to write in a varied and interesting manner, and the requirements are just to make sure that the usage of the tool is mastered. The idea is not to go off to college and make sure that every paragraph contains an "-ly word." I love that IEW builds writing confidence and makes writing success easy. I do wish it moved on to persuasive and comparison essays sooner. That said, how much time does CW take to plan on a weekly basis?

According to IEW, 3rd and 1st grade would be be level A, but in my mind 1st grade is a little early to start any formal writing, but maybe that's because most of my children have been latish readers.

Tess, your story sounds so much like ours. We started out with Math-U-See, but my eldest daughter liked it for a short time and then it became a cause for much hair pulling for both of us. We switched to Horizons after a couple years, but we lost a year in the process because of the different order that Math-U-See presented math concepts in way back then (I think that may have changed). I do still pull out the MUS blocks to explain concepts from Horizon to the younger children. At this point, my two oldest are using Jacobs' Algebra, but it has been a real struggle over a year and a half. I think it's a great book with great explanations. At this point though the problem is that I'm not much help. I just discovered Teaching Textbook and am now debating between Jacobs and TT for geometry next year. Any opinions, anyone? Meanwhile, we'll stick with Horizons for elementary so long as it is working. I like that it is spiral like Saxon and similarly straightforward, but instead of having very large numbers of the same type of problem, it has a smaller number of more different types of problems everyday, and I also like the nice color.

I'm looking at the same thing right now and would love to understand what the difference between Comprehensive 1.0 and 2.0. I would also very much like to know how far it goes. That said, I like what I see so far. I did a few lessons from languages I am familiar with, and I thought the accents were good (native), and I think it would be more appropriate for logic stage and up since it involves analysis and not just immersion, but I think that might be better in the long run, and it definitely does include some grammar.

Modern is hard, isn't it? We're going through the same question and plan to focus mostly on dystopic literature this year. We already read Animal Farm all together (the little kids just enjoyed it as a story). Just FYI, you probably wouldn't want to read That Hideous Strength without reading Out of the Silent Planet first. That Hideous is the 3rd in Lewis' Space Trilogy, and I don't think it would stand well alone. I definitely second Austen and Lewis and Cather as well as Metamorphosis by Kafka. It is immensely weird but very good. It would probably be enjoyed by a young man who would, to paraphrase Andrew Pudewa, rather be building forts. Some other suggestions: Brave New World (less vile and perhaps more true than 1984, though both are good) The Isle of Dr. Moreau Anything by Mark Twain, though it's right on the cusp of modern. Tale of Two Cities is particularly wonderful, though a rather difficult read especially for Twain. Same deal with Melville, though it took my 14-year-old the better part of a semester to slog her way through Moby-Dick. A good guide is necessary for this book, I think. A new one that may be hard to find is Seascape-Soulscape: Moby-Dick by Gene Curtsinger. How about some of the plays and novels of Victor Hugo, particularly Les Miserables? Even though the subject matter predates what would reasonably be considered modern, I think it was written in the 1840s or 1850s, and it shows distinctly the difference between the hideous French revolution and the far more just American revolution. His plays are also very good. He himself transitioned from being in favor of a monarch to being in favor of the republic. Another one I think I'll have them read is Out of Africa. How about The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck? It's funny, though, the difference between enjoying something for oneself and reading it with one's children in mind. In the second case, it seems a lot more necessary to think about the innocence even of my teens. For that reason, I think we'll skip 1984, and I'll have to go through Out of Africa and The Good Earth before handing them over. It has been far too many years.

I have found that somewhere between 11 and 13, my children hit the logic stage. I know they hit the logic stage because they start debating everything I ask them to do. Now, that doesn't make it easy to deal with these problems. I'm having the same problems with my 11-year-old, but it is a good age to try to use these opportunities to develop logical thinking. All I can suggest is to second the person who said the problem was lying more than laziness and to look forward to the poetic rhetoric stage. :001_smile:

Thank you for all the responses. It is more math than anything else. Jenny, they do sets I and III and can do set IV if they choose for "extra credit." (whatever that is in homeschooling) I'm really glad to hear that that amount takes 1 hour for someone else. Yesterday, I had them spend just 1 hour on it, and they each only got through set I and a problem or two of set III, so something is amiss. Also, my mother-in-law, a retired math professor, went through the book and made notes of what things were most important and what could reasonably be skipped, which will probably help with how long it takes to finish the book but not so much with the day to day. Much of the trouble here is that my husband was working with them on algebra initially, but a major move and job change later, he no longer has time to do so, so I'm having to try to pick it up in the middle, and while I do just fine with arithmetic and am looking forward to geometry with them, I find algebra very difficult and am not much help. Jenny, can you confirm what I have heard elsewhere--that Jacobs Algebra covers pretty much everything in both Saxon Algebra I and Algebra II? As for the other things, the writing is in fact incorporated into other subjects (literature and sometimes history), but I keep it as a separate slot just for ease of organizing. The typing is called Typing Master Platinum and is so fantastic and working so well that I would hesitate to cut it out until each of the children has reached a certain level of mastery. My 15-year-old is nearly there, but my 13-year-old is not. I just think it is an important skill. It's sort of like the times tables of writing. You don't want to have to think about where the letter "t" is while trying to compose an essay. The cursive is something that I really didn't think was worth worrying about until recently. It will be done soon. I think some of this comes down to the whole guinea pig thing with older children. These are things that my younger children will have an easier time with because they are doing them at "the right" ages. Also, certain subjects will be falling off as they are finished, such as grammar, cursive, and typing, so that should make things a bit easier. Also, my 13-year-old son is still doing spelling as it is something he struggles with immensely. Just last year, we finally found All About Spelling, and he is finally making progress, thanks be to God. I will definitely see what I find in the responses to your previous question, MommyThrice. Thanks, everybody. I love this place. More than any other message board, there are thoughtful, helpful answers and good questions.

Dear Faith, Well, my high school experience was pretty similar I guess, but part of the reason we homeschool is so that they can have free time to ponder the world around them, to be creative, to pursue their own interests, and to develop a contemplative mindset. All of those things require more free time than they have, unfortunately. Maybe that isn't realistic for high school without giving up to much. It's all a balancing act, isn't it? What did you do to help your children become faster readers? I think that might be some of the problem for my 13-year-old, but honestly I'm not sure. God bless, Carla

We do have the same subjects on Monday and Wednesday and then again the same subjects on Tuesday and Thursday. On Friday, we are part of a homeschool co-op with different subjects. Let's just look at my 15-year-old: On Monday and Wednesday, she does: 1. Modern history. 2. Cursive (I didn't think it was important until recently, and now I'm teaching all the kids at once) 3. Algebra (Jacobs') 4. Piano 5. Analytical Grammar (nearly done with season II and loving it) 6. Typing (we'll probably cut this out soon as she's pretty speedy) 7. Writing (mostly using IEW) 8. Literature (the focus this year is on dystopic modern literature) 9. Latin On Tuesday and Thursday, she has: 1. Science (after struggling through biology last year, she's doing "The Joy of Science" from the Teaching Company. I'm finding it very interesting. :-) 2. Cursive. 3. Algebra. 4. Literature. 5. Theology (We're using the Didache series, and she reads the chapter on Tuesday and answers the questions on Thursday) 6. Analytical Grammar--check the previous day's work. 7. Writing. 8. Latin. 9. Piano. 10. An SAT prep course just once a week. She really doesn't like math and science, and I think she has a hard time making herself do it. She enjoys literature, grammar, Latin, and most especially piano. In fact, she intersperses it through the day as sort of a stress break with my blessing. Does this seem reasonable to others who have high schoolers?

We are having trouble getting everything done every day. My 15-year-old spends hours on algebra. My 13-year-old, while he seems a little more focused, also takes forever. Except for a 1-hour break to go explore the forest in the middle of the day, they are at it from 9 to about 6. To me, this seems unreasonable, but every time I go over their lists, I don't find anything to take off. It is a fairly rare day when they actually get everything done for the day. Any ideas? Does anyone else have this problem? With these two (my oldest out of 5), I really only help with a few subjects at this point. Just today, I set time limits of 1 hour to work on algebra, 30 minutes for Latin, etc., with the hope that knowing that it will come to an end makes it easier to concentrate while they are working, but I am also concerned that it could mean they fall further behind.

A really good undergraduate major for an aspiring law student is philosophy as it can't be beat for logical thinking, but if you don't want him stuck reading a bunch of Nietzsche (a basically crazy man who spent much of his life living in his sister's attic and who was Hitler's inspiration), you might look more at liberal arts universities that emphasize a lot of Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas and the other scholastics. That doesn't mean there should be no modern philosophers--just that they shouldn't be the main emphasis. Obviously, I have a distinct bias, but there are my 2 cents. I am not a lawyer, but several friends and classmates who were philosophy majors have gone on to very fine law careers. However, that said, many of them wish they were college professors at this point. :-)

Well, just like the original poster on this thread, I read the Writing Road to Reading. Then I read it again. Then I read it a 3rd time taking notes all the way through and finally got it. The problem is that I'd be reading chapter 16 (or whatever chapter it was), and Romalda Spalding would refer to something you had to make sure to do way back in chapter 3. The method is brilliant, but I would contend that the book is poorly organized. I believe I had the 2nd edition, so perhaps these problems have been ironed out in the latest editions. That said, I used it with a fair degree of success with my eldest daughter (now 14), but I thought I could reasonably omit the letter symbols. Looking back, that was a mistake. Moreover, my second child just never really got it using that. I've posted about this elsewhere, but I finally broke down and got All about Spelling, which is based on the Spalding method. The one major change is that the words are in order by word groups rather than by frequency. Some would disagree, but I think that's a big improvement. Also, the system in All about Spelling makes it hard to miss the rules that have finally made spelling make sense to my boys. It took me a long time to get a supplement of any kind (albeit not the official Spalding one) after all the time I put into WRTR, but I'm so, so glad I did.

We have 5 children. We tried the loop schedule for many months last year, but I found that the children who worked well with a checklist continued to do well, but the children who tended not to get through everything in a day still had the same problem, only it was worse without the built-in incentive of free time to play as soon as everything was checked off. I think it's a great idea for a family with mostly younger children though. Anyway, I noticed that several other people mentioned the problem of what to do when multiple children want one's attention at the same time. I finally came up with the idea of having an index card for each child with the child's name on it. If I'm working with one child but someone else needs me, I have them bring me their index card. Then, when I'm done or at a good break with the child I'm currently helping, I see what the child who brought the index card needs. If there's more than one, well, "All questions will be answered in the order they are received." It sounds a little cold perhaps, but that way I'm free to really focus on one child at a time. I do have to say that sometimes I will interrupt a younger child who has less to do overall to help an older child struggling through an algebra problem and trying to finish.

Well, after a lot of planning to work out the kinks, we're giving the loop a trial run, and we're all excited about it. Is there anyone else with a high school aged student who is using it? In any case, our "loop" is complicated by the fact that my husband will be doing some of the "classes" as well this year for the first time, so our loop has morphed into a loop for me, a loop for my husband, and a loop for each of the children for their independent work. Furthermore, since he'll be on duty in the afternoon while I do medical transcription, the kids actually have a morning loop and an afternoon loop, and Friday is totally separate as well. It sounds a little crazy and loses much of the simplicity of the loop, but it still retains the advantages of making sure that every subject gets attention and the little kids don't get lost. The subjects that the kids do on their own with mostly just checking on progress (like typing, handwriting, logic, poetry memorization, and Italian) are on their loops. The subjects that my husband or I guide (like Analytical Grammar, All About Spelling, Apologia Biology) are on our loops. For this to work with 5 children, we've set up a sign-up sheet that they sign in for when they have questions so as not to interrupt someone else's lesson, and in between each lesson, the parent on duty will answer any questions needed. Anyway, all of this is quite new to us, so we'll see how it goes. Anybody else out there who attempted a loop schedule and was happy or unhappy with it?

We have a 12-year-old who wants to learn computer programming. We've done quite a bit of research and found that Python sounds good. It's easy to learn, capable of doing pretty much everything, can be used on both Mac and PC (we have a mixed marriage--my husband uses Macs and I use PCs!), it can be used on the web and off, it's free, has lots of support, the syntax is similar to several other languages, and it's considered a respectable programming language by programmers overall. I'd love to hear the conclusions others come to and why. Also, if anyone has suggestions for good tutorials and/or books for Python, that would be most helpful.

We're in the same situation in that we are finishing up Horizons and figuring out where to go next. I actually have a daughter who will be in 9th grade and a son going into 7th, and they are both finishing up the 6th grade Horizons. Just this afternoon, I had a long discussion with my mother-in-law, who taught math at community colleges for many years. She was confident that Horizon 6-2 covered pretty much all of arithmetic and that it should be possible to go straight to algebra after that. Since my daughter is so far behind in math (due to a year in school in which she learned nothing as well as some switching of curricula when she was much younger and I was not very confident in homeschooling), I'm very relieved by this. We've been going back and forth between Saxon Algebra I and Jacobs' Elementary Algebra and tend to be leaning toward Jacobs. If anyone has gone from Horizons 6-2 straight to any algebra program, it would be great to hear about successes and difficulties.