I'm failing my child in Literature and History how can I fix this?

[Kendall]

I feel like I have totally failed my oldest child in Literature and History (and Writing too but that’s for another post). I'm open for online course suggestions, but would also like advice for finishing the year well and improving things myself.

 

In Literature 9th he read Gilgamesh, Odyssey, Aeneid, Julius Caesar, AESCHYLUS- Agamemnon, Libation Bearers,

SOPHOCLES-, Antigone , Some of Plutarch’s lives, A children’s retelling of Herodutus, The Last Days of Socrates, He has read through the whole Bible though not all in 9th grade,

 

and this year(10th) so far has read On the Incarnation, Beowulf, Confessions, Hamlet, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight , childrens version of King Arthur, children’s version of Song of Roland, Dante, but other than one small essay he wrote on Hamlet he hasn’t done much other than read them.

 

For History he has read the Spielvogel and listened to Teaching Company lectures(Middle Ages series) and previously in life has read lots of biographies and history and historical fiction. But again he hasn’t done much more than read. I did make up a few tests in the 9th grade but haven’t done that this year.

 

So to sum it up, he has read but that is it. How can I redeem these two subjects this year(and in the future) without spending lots of time myself? I wish I could spend time, but other than reading the Shakespeare plays I haven’t even kept up with his reading this year.

 

He really surprised me with how well he did on the PSAT this year as a sophomore, especially in the reading and writing section, could it be that just reading these harder works does some good? Yet, I know that isn’t enough.

 

Thanks in advance,

Kendall

[readwithem]

Your 9th and 10th grade years are so similar to ours that it's scary. I'm not sure where you feel you have failed. Look at all the GREAT books your son has read!!! I don't have my 10th grader write a paper for every book, sometimes we're ready to move on to the next book, sometimes it didn't really "speak" to her.

 

We're reading Morte d'Arthur at the moment and I have to say I look wistfully at the children's versions on the shelf :) we're about halfway through the book, and it's so predictable - joust a little, sleep with a damosel a little, ride your horse a little :) :) Okay I'm joking but your reading list is very very strong.

 

One thing you might ask him is whether he wants to take an online or coop class for next year, so he will have the opportunity to discuss those great books with others.

 

Don't beat yourself up! (or if you do, you need to come beat me up at the same time :)

[Michelle in MO]

almost identical to yours: we had intentions of doing so much more, but probably only did half of the Primary Readings. I think we did Epic of Gilgamesh, Genesis and Exodus, Herodotus, Plutarch's Lives, The Odyssey, the Aeneid, and a few others. We were really delayed in the fall due to some other reasons, so hardly anything was done in terms of history or literature. Very little writing was accomplished, either, and no testing on the above-referenced books. Nevertheless, my oldest did very well on her sophomore PSATs. I think the readings in Omnibus I (I'm not sure if that's what you're using, but if you're not, you are covering essentially the same materials) are the most challenging. I think we eeked out enough hours to give them a credit in history each (which is how I decided to assign credits for that particular year).

 

This year we're doing much better. We've either had a writing assignment or an evaluation at the end of each book, and have covered so much more material.

 

I agree with readwiththem----if you feel the urge to beat yourself up, come over and give me a wallop too, OK? ;)

[Kendall]

Thanks for the encouragement. Could you give me an example of the writing assignments you gave your children? I think I would feel better if he wrote a little something about some of it, but I have such a hard time thinking of what to have him write. Then when he has written it I don't know what to do with it.

We did use Omnibus I the first year but did very little of the questions, especially the last 1/2 of the year.

 

Thanks - I'm feeling better!

Kendall

[MicheleinMN]

Hi Kendall,

Sounds like your problem is related to writing/paperwork to go along with all those wonderful books, and not actually related to history or literature. May I ask what you are using for writing?

 

Your school year looks like ours this year and into next. I'm looking at using one of the LL programs in the fall to help with the *what to write* problem.

 

HTH,

Michele

[Chris in VA]

Yep, I'm another one who is in the same boat as you. I don't call it the USS Failed My Kid, tho!

I do think your reading list is strong. My son simply cannot write at a rhetoric level yet. We haven't done much but read and discuss, and I'm hoping he can take some college composition courses his senior year to make up the deficit.

 

The biggest challenge I have is actually grading his written essays--you sound similar. Perhaps Write at Home would be of help? You still have time to get him to a higher level in his writing. The reading list is fine.

[Nan in Mass]

If he isn't writing well, then start short. You can ask if he noticed anything interesting about his reading. If he did, have him tell you about it. Ask questions about anything he has said that you yourself don't understand. Then, if it is an interesting point, have him write it down in a paragraph. This means that he needs a topic sentence (his point) and details. He should include background info, a quote or two illustrating his point, and the implications of it. If that doesn't work, then you can have him write a logic stage book report. Look at the list of questions in the logic stage literature chapter. They are good beginning discussion questions that help you to summarize the plot and decide how you feel about the book. You don't need to read the book to use them because you are going to ask the questions and he has to do the answering. Unless he point blank says, "I don't know," and gives you absolutely nothing to work with, you can draw out the answer just by getting him to explain the parts you don't understand. In the process of telling you about the book, he will clarify it for himself. When he gets done, have him write a summary of the book (the questions should help him figure out what to put in and what to leave out) and add a few sentences to the end about whether he liked the book and why. They have to be specific reasons using examples from the book. If that is too overwhelming to start with, then pick one particular part of the book and use that.

 

When he can do that without too many problems, go to pinkmonkey, a free internet site that is rather like the old Cliff Notes. It will have a list of essay topics for the book, among other things. He can write a 5 paragraph essay on one of those topics.

 

I wouldn't have him write about every book. Have him just read some, and for some do a project. If he likes to draw, he could do some illustrations. If it is a book with a particular style, he could try to write a bit of fiction imitating that style. He can do some research on something about the background of the book, like the clothing people wore at that time, or what warfare was like, or something like that, and write a brief report about one bit of what he learned. He could do a biography of the author. He could write a report about something that happened in history that influenced either the author or the characters in the book. He could compare different translations and write a paragraph about which one he liked best and why. He could make something. My son made a reed boat model for Gilgamesh.

 

If you are struggling with writing, Jensen's Format Writing is cookbook. It doesn't produce the best sort of writing and the examples are so bad that even my children noticed, but it works. It doesn't take too long to do, the directions are pretty clear, and it is cheap. It begins with how to write different sorts of paragraphs and then extends that to 5 paragraph essays and then tackles different sorts of writing, like presis, business letters, resumes, research papers, and book reports. After they actually are writing fairly easily and quickly, then you can work on style or whatever, but this is great at getting them going because it really spells out what to write for each sentence and each paragraph. Just make sure you practise each thing more than once so you memorize the format.

 

If having him just read the history bothers you, then have him write an answer to one of the questions at the beginning of each chapter in Spielvogel. They make good essays. They are called something like "Questions to think about" or something like that.

 

If you want to grade his writing, then get one of the writing rubrics and use that. I sometimes have my children fill out the rubric for themselves. I don't give grades, but that lets them know what the goals are and where they need to improve. Someone asked about writing rubrics earlier on this forum, so you should be able to do a search and find them.

 

HTH

-Nan

[Nicole M]

another print-worthy post from Nan in Mass!

 

"Output" is exactly right. I think many of us struggle with this. You are totally not failing your child!

 

Start small, and keep us posted.

 

Nicole

[readwithem]

Could you give me an example of the writing assignments you gave your children? I think I would feel better if he wrote a little something about some of it, but I have such a hard time thinking of what to have him write. Then when he has written it I don't know what to do with it.

 

I took my lead from something either in WTM or from SWB directly (she spoke at our conference a few years ago) - I let my dd pick the type of paper she'll write. It's been *amazing* to me what she sees to analyze. Since I'm reading along with her, I do a once over on her papers, then her dad really goes over them - to ensure what she's written makes sense from a fresh pair of eyes which haven't read the book.

 

I'm glad you're no longer beating yourself up - your book list is really really strong! :)

[Jan P.]

To add to what Nan said, here is something that my dd did with Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings: she wrote a dialogue about Pippin going back to the Shire and telling the Hobbits all about the Ring, the wicked Sauron, and what will happen to the Shire if Frodo fails.

 

I guess you could call this a parallel story. My friend's son does this all the time, and she counts his work as part of his school. So have your dc pick out a character or a scene and add something interesting to it.

 

My dd enjoyed doing this!

 

HTH,

[Kendall]

I am reporting back. Thanks again for all of the suggestions. I have added some writing to our literature and history. What do you do with the writing once they have done it? Do you typically edit like you would an essay or just let them write? Here is an example of a history question and his paragraph answer and then an essay on Taming of the Shrew. These are from my 10th grade son.

*************

Why did the Europeans begin to embark on voyages of discovery and expansion at the end of the fifteenth century?

 

Europeans sent out explorers for many reasons. Some wanted to Christianize the places they sailed to. Jesuit missionaries were on most of the ships of exporation. They also sought wealth. The Portugese found a sea rout around the Cape of Good Hope to India, and were able to make fortunes for themselves selling spices to other European countries. Others also hoped for gold. Portugese explorers found gold in Africa. The Spanish also found gold in South and Central America.

*************

Taming of the Shrew essay

 

Petruchio’s methods of taming Katherine in Shakespeare’s The Taming of The Shrew are questionable. At first glance, and from Kate’s perspective, the seem unkind, or even cruel. But looking deeper into the play, it is evident that Petruchio had only Kate’s best interests in mind. He was humane and loving to her throughout her taming.

 

Even though Petruchio has the bad habit of yelling and swearing loudly, he never uses anything but gentle and loving tones with Kate. His first lines are yelled at his servant Grumio. In their wedding, he curses loudly, and even pushes the priest down. When they sit down to eat their first meal after their wedding, he yells about the food, and even throws it around the room. He screams about the way the bed is made. He shouts at the tailor and the hat maker. But his voice is always kind and gentle when speaking to Kate.

Petruchio is always gentle to his bride, and never harms her. True, he does not let her eat for about a day. But people can live for several weeks without food. All a person needs to recover from a day without eating is a good meal. Petruchio makes sure his wife has plenty to eat at the feast in scene five.

 

Kate also misses a night of sleep. But losing sleep is not dangerous. A good nap is sufficient to recover from a sleepless night. If Kate goes on to be a mother, she will probably spend many more nights with little or no sleep. It should also be noted that while Kate did not eat or sleep, neither did Petruchio. He did not do anything to Kate that he would not do to himself. None of Petruchio’s methods for taming Kate had long-lasting negative consequences.

 

Petruchio’s goal was to make Kate a better person. He loved her, and did not want her to be the nasty shrew that she was in the beginning of the play. He had her best interests in mind throughout her taming. He knew that her demeanor could not significantly change without pain. He did not make her suffer more than was necessary to make her a better person.

 

Petruchio was gentle and loving to Kate. He never raised his voice with her, or caused her any real harm. He knew that the change in her life would be worth the fatigue and the pain of hunger. Instead of being cruel, he was kind. Both he, Kate, and everyone that knew them benefited from Kate’s taming, but no one more than Kate herself.

[Jan P.]

Wow! Your ds did a great job! I enjoyed the essay about Kate and Petruccio from The Taming of the Shrew. I never thought about P. being so kind and gentle with Kate in contrast with the other people in the play.

 

As far as editing, I guess it varies for me. Sometimes I help her edit her paper, and other times I just let her turn her paper "as is".

 

Sorry, I'm not much help.

Jan

 

 

[

[cajun.classical]

Kendall,

 

This is great progress. Good job. I'll offer my 2 cents as a former history and literature teacher--in both high school and college. It's hard to know exactly what comments to give because I'm not exactly sure what the assignment is. If the Shakespeare essay was an in-class timed essay, then it was well done. If it was an out-of-class assignment of a literary paper, then in addition to citing examples of behavior, the student needs to include quotes from the play. All literary papers have a thesis which must be proved; the quotations are the evidence to support your thesis. So, I would suggest 1) cite the passages for the examples he gave, 2) add direct quotes. Any English style book will show you how to do this.

 

Great start.

 

ps. It's late and I'm distracted. If I need to explain myself better, I will.

[Guest Katia]

When I want my dd to write something about a fiction novel, say dialog or what will happen when....or how would you end it, or what will happen next, I call it Fan Fiction. She likes to read Hardy Boys and Sherlock Holmes fan fiction on the web, so when I tell her to write some fan fiction for an assignment, she LOVES it! It becomes "fun" as opposed to just another writing assignment.

[Nan in Mass]

Sometimes I don't do anything with it, and sometimes we work on something a bit. I have them read it back to me and ask them if they like it, for starters. They often see uneven spots that way, or awkward wording. If I think something is unclear, I'll point it out. Or if I think they didn't stick to the point. After that, we work on the technical details like spelling and punctuation and make a clean copy. Then we file it in their great books notebook. Sounds like you're doing great!

-Nan

[Kendall]

Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I did have him go back and add quotes from the play in the essay.

 

I think I need to realize that writing that I don't do much with is better than no writing at all and that there is some value in the writing process alone. In analyzing, I am seeing that in my homeschool career I have subconsciously avoided some writing assignments because I didn't know what to do with it when they were done. My younger children will benefit from this realization, and I think that there is enough time with my older two to make some amends.

 

Thanks again,

Kendall

[Nan in Mass]

I hate to think how many writing assignments they've done and I've never seen. It seems to be coming out ok, though. It might have been faster if I had helped more, and better, but it seems to be working anyway. My oldest can write a paper without much effort now and is doing fine in CC composition. -Nan

[Kendall]

I'm glad you made the point that it might have been fast and better if you had helped more. I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that not doing much with some of their writings was an ideal, it is just a combination of life happening and mom not knowing how to easily/quickly give constructive comments. It is nice to know that things can turn out okay with less than ideal education. It is a balance between not giving up the ideal and not feeling guilty when you can't meet it.

[Nan in Mass]

I didn't get that impression and I doubt anyone else did, either. I just have a reputation for being pretty relaxed and I didn't want anyone to think I was relaxed on purpose about this LOL. -Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Good idea.