Passions

[nature girl]

I know ASD kids have their passions, and I’ve read a lot about them in ADHD kids too. Well, my DD7’s passion is insects, of any kind. I was okay with it while she was younger, it was a good way of spending time outside, but it’s only getting more intense. Now she’d be out collecting bugs all day if I let her. I want to try to put a damper on this, partly because I feel bad for the bugs…I know that might sound ridiculous, but picking them up, sticking them in small cages, it just seems borderline cruel to me. And also because it distracts her from other things…We’ll be reading a book or at a library program, she’ll notice a fly and go scrambling around the room to catch it. This also happened many, many times in school last year.

 

The tipping point was this morning, she’d kept two praying mantises in a habitat, apparently hadn’t fed them enough flies and one cannibalized the other. Of course she was extremely upset, as was I. But I still haven’t been able to convince her to release the remaining mantis.

 

Have any of you tried to, or been successful at, taming your kids’ passions? Is it wrong of me to try to stop this?

[OneStepAtATime]

Instead of thinking of this as something to stop, maybe consider finding ways to channel and direct her passion.  Find ways to tie this interest into productive ways of learning about insects and ecosystems and biology in general.  Help her gain a better understanding of how to properly care for insects and to appreciate leaving them in their native habitat when possible.  Get books on insects and help her journal about insects.  Teach her the scientific method for observation.

 

And maybe set up more clearly laid out rules and guidelines that are consistently reinforced for when to chase insects and how to care for them.

 

Have you read any of dmmetler's posts regarding her daughter?  At like maybe age 4-5 her daughter became extremely interested in reptiles and amphibians.  Her mom fed that passion and helped direct it.  The child is a pre-teen now and has given lectures, traveled the country attending conferences, written papers, etc.  Mom helped her turn this passion into something the child now is pursuing with a career in mind.

Edited July 28, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Lecka]

I think set some boundaries.

 

Maybe she has to let them out at night. Maybe she has to let them out when she comes inside.

 

Maybe you can get her an actual insect pet.

 

For the times she should do something else, I think make it clear times she can do it, and times she can't. It is hard because there are times even in school where it would be okay, but you can talk about times it definitely is and isn't okay.

 

Try to add something for her. Maybe an extra time. Maybe your whole-hearted enthusiasm for something related. Maybe a pet that will be cared for properly. Maybe more outings.

 

Just from what you have said here, it doesn't sound like it crosses a line for being concerning. Things do cross a line, but it doesn't sound that way. If you think she really might be crossing a line where it is effecting her in a negative way, that is a real thing that can happen, but it doesn't seem that way.

 

Also she is young enough that there are still kids doing stuff like this fairly commonly. I think it is common to be working on this at this age, talking about when things are okay and when they aren't okay.

 

And keep in mind the kids at library programs are a very self-selected group. A lot of parents will tend not to take a more active kid. A lot of parents will be more likely to take a kid who would be expected to enjoy it and not complain and say why couldn't they go to the park instead.

[PeterPan]

When you talk about someone with a passion, maybe they can let it go, think about something else, engage with something else. Then there's that point where, for some people, it becomes a perseveration, where they're STUCK. My ds has an area of special interest, yes, and we can usually chain that to get him to engage with other things. Then sometimes he *perseverates* on an aspect of it. That perseveration is really, really hard to deal with.

 

And when you ask ok, why is he stuck, why can't he move on, why can't he accept no that's not going to be an option or what we're going to do, why can't he get UNSTUCK... well that's something there are books for. It's something you can spend a lot of time digging into. Actually, I think I bought Unstuck and On Target and need to get it out. He's really stuck on some things lately.

 

Personally, him having an area of special interest doesn't bother or worry me. Chaining works. To me, you've got basic maturity stuff that factors in, like is she thinking about the bug's perspective or only her own, etc. So you can use your social thinking tools. Sometimes they don't realize hey, if I let it go today, ANOTHER one will come along, that it's not the LAST bug, the last day to play that way, the last time in the world. So their sense of time and immaturity and EF issues affect it.

 

Think about it with picking up toys. It's the same kind of immaturity. My ds sets up play, and it's really good play, really cool, really complex! And then he doesn't want to take it down EVER because it was too awesome and something he spent a lot of time lining up figures for! So what I've found is he needs MORE practice with the letting go, letting it happen, skill, not less. So now I'll come along with a broom and just SWOOSH, even if the play set up was cool. Just letting him practice over and over, yes it's ok, yes we can play again, yes, there will be fun again. And he's getting more chilled about it. This morning I was picking up (because I'm behind!), and he's like hey you're messing up what I just lined up! And I'm like that's ok, we need to pick up, then we can play again. And he was cool with that.

 

So maybe practice MORE catch and release, not less. Get three bug cages and put them on rotation. :)

[PeterPan]

I think set some boundaries.

 

 

This. I had to be a little firm and tough, because to draw that line was to draw the behaviors and have to deal with them. Let the bugs go, say now we're going on another expedition to find more, and walk out the door. Just matter of fact, do it, move on. 

[nature girl]

Thank you, a lot of wisdom here, these are wonderful suggestions. We have spent a lot of time learning about insects, she has many books, all sorts of plastic bugs, and real bugs encased in plastic for study with microscopes, we raise butterflies every summer, etc., but it's the live collecting that she loves. She also likes to "experiment" with them, another thing that bothers me, seeing if they'll be able to swim in a container of water, turning them upside-down to see if they'll get back up, setting up obstacle courses for them to do "bug gymnastics..." I've tried to get her to put herself in the bugs' place, ask how they must feel, and she'll seem upset and stop, but then the next day she's at it again. I guess I haven't set firm enough limits, though, just was hoping she'd come to that understanding herself. You've given me great ideas on how to limit the aspects of it that I don't agree with. Let these bugs go and we'll go for a walk to find more...I'm going to try that today.

 

And thank you for mentioning dmmetler's amazing daughter, I should try to think about it from that perspective, nurturing and honoring and helping her find healthy ways to channel this. We've said for awhile that she'll be an entomologist someday. :) I just want her to learn that if she truly loves bugs, she'll do what's best for them.

[OneStepAtATime]

She may not be able to empathize yet but hopefully whether she truly feels what they might be feeling or not or understands to take their personal well being into consideration, with very clear structure, consistency and clearly laid out and reinforced guidelines perhaps she can at least learn to treat the insects better.  Over time hopefully she will also be able to empathize, at least to some extent.

 

Lots of kids struggle with consistent empathy, especially with insects.  This may take time, modeled behavior and a lot of patience and consistency.  Hang in there.  

[Lecka]

I think if she does it again the next day, tell her again the next day.

 

To try to be more positive -- give ideas for things she can do instead. Is there something similar you are okay with?

 

I would probably be fine with things like putting something in front of a bug to see if it goes over or around.

 

We had a thread recently, where some kids were amazing with animals, and some kids clueless.

 

If she is clueless, this is something you might discuss briefly, or give rule reminders on, for a long time. It is okay to do that. It will sink in eventually I bet, but it may take quite a while.

 

Something you might do in general is do a rules reminder every time before she goes outside. This can go a LONG way. It is a method for prompting, so maybe (maybe) you will see that if you don't provide the prompt at some point, she forgets. Or maybe you see she has remembered. But it can be a good kind of prompt.

 

Over time to lesson it, you can ask her to tell you the rules. A lesser prompt than that would be "what do we need to remember before we go outside?"

[PeterPan]

Have any of you tried to, or been successful at, taming your kids’ passions? Is it wrong of me to try to stop this?

 

I have a funny story on this. I went somewhere and a vendor I was talking with watched my ds. At the time he was wearing headphones because we hadn't yet done listening therapy and his behavior degraded unmanageably in noisy places. (ie. looking at him was screaming autism) Anyways, the vendor was selling something in my ds' perseverative interest, so we were standing there gabbing about it. The vendor looks at me, looks at ds, and he said let me give you a chaste piece of advice. I'm like fine... And he explains that his son too had a perseverative interest, and that he TRIED to move the ds from that interest. Like he really, REALLY tried. They told him there was no future in it, started him down a chained (connected) but different path, actually started a business with that new interest, all trying to get him to go a new direction. The business was successful, but you know where this is going...

 

There was no turning the boy from his real perseverative interest. The boy finished what he had worked on in the business with that dad, left it, and now works in the field of his perseverative interest. He makes a living wage, has adequate benefits, and has a sense of satisfaction in the field. It's not a job that people would look at and go oh yeah, I'm homeschooled my ds for 13 years so he could go get a job in that! It's just a job. But to that boy, it was where he needed to be.

 

I think we chain, we try, we teach skills. We teach social thinking. We help them learn how to get unstuck and how to self-regulate. But at the end of the day, they are who they are.

[PeterPan]

Nature, it sounds like you need to get her an entymologist mentor. That's a bug person, right? Anyways, she needs a mentor who would make an impression on what they do, what they don't do, and why. You'd be amazed with my ds. Like he's totally, totally clueless with animals, but we had this one worker come in who really made an impression on him. The guy could tell stories of himself and how he and his brothers handled that issue, and it really clicked.

 

So yeah, I would step up the modeling and mentoring inputs to match her level of interest. Take her to some zoo day programs or take her to a shelter. Maybe the mentoring on caring for another kind of animal would generalize over, at least like the sayings.

Edited July 28, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Lecka]

If there are transitions you know are hard, with letting go or coming inside, then re-directing is a tool we all have. It is a good tool.

 

But if you can lessen the need for you managing her by re-directing her, that is good, too.

 

If you know a transition is coming up, you can do a warning, a rules reminder with the warning, and then have a timer or a first/then or a countdown leading up to the transition.

 

So the warning might be "in 5 minutes, after you do 3 more times, after you finish what you are doing" then it will be time to x (go inside, whatever). When we do x remember we need to blah blah blah. I am more literal with one son and use "the rule is" wording. It is good for him but I would say "need to" with my other kids.

 

That is the time for discussion of "why do we have to do it that way" which you can think is productive or not. But hopefully if there is legitimate debate you get it out of the way here. If there is not you can say "we have talked about this before" or something if it isn't productive.

 

Then ideally when you get to the transition she has been making some mental preparation and will be better able to handle her disappointment.

 

Also it is good if you have something to move on to to focus her on a transition to something she will like.

 

You can do this more re-direct-y if that is going to work better. You can do it more natural consequence-y like "we are running out of time to spend on the next thing" if that is going to work better.

 

If you expect it to go poorly, a trick is to schedule a shortish time (but not too short) and then another shortish time.... that way your reward for doing a good job the first time, is being able to go back out for the second time more quickly. That can be a good natural reward. Your thing in the middle could be something like making/eating a snack that would be short and probably fairly enjoyable. Ideally you get four times for rule review within a couple of hours, if you did it before you went outside and before you came inside each time.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Lecka

[PeterPan]

You could get her a book from the library on bug care. It will probably say something like let them go at the end of the day. Then you have something authoritative. :)

 

Adding: This is a pretty normal thing to have happen, but it's the *degree* that makes it frustrating. And I guess it would be interesting for you, just with yourself, to search and ask why you CAN'T just say hey we have to let him go and pick up the bug container and go do it, kwim? Like what would happen if you did that?

 

I find with my ds, whenever we have those times where I'm like oh, I can't do that, it's because I'm skirting behaviors I know he'll have. Then I have to hit it head on. 

 

Kids are sometimes like sharks and they see what we do as blood in the water... That's what I tell my workers. He's like a shark, and don't let blood in the water with weakness. Just be politely, quietly firm and insistent. Like hey, we can take a picture of the bug to catalog, but then we're really going to have to let him go. And really do it, like start a bug blog or bug album or whatever, but help get it done and get over the hurdle.

Edited July 28, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Lecka]

Ridiculous silly "dos and donts" cards are also something people use to go over this. Having some funny ones hopefully makes it fun so the child will participate. Or you giving wrong answers and pretending you always sleep with a bug in your ear or something.

 

Some kids like this kind of thing. There are "dos and donts" pre-made cards for a lot of things.

 

My son is doing a set for pool safety right now.

[PeterPan]

Lecka, you have a link for those? I've never seen them, but they seem like a good idea. They're something we do verbally but visual is always good. If there aren't ones for caring for bugs, there still might be for pets. Or she could make a quick set herself.

[Guest]

What OneStepAtATime said.

Do you know Anna Comstock's story? She is the author of The Handbook of Nature Study. Here are some books you can look at (we own the second one):

Out of School and Into Nature: The Anna Comstock Story
https://www.amazon.com/Out-School-Into-Nature-Comstock-ebook/dp/B01HIMFLXI/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1501259833&sr=1-4

Girls Who Looked Under Rocks: The Lives of Six Pioneering Naturalists
https://www.amazon.com/Girls-Who-Looked-Under-Rocks-ebook/dp/B0090R3CPE/ref=pd_sim_351_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9RPKB3N554NMTE4NE012
 

Edited for privacy.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Guest

[Lecka]

I don't know if they are home-made or off of Pinterest. I think I have seen ones for manners on super duper?

 

I have seen home-made where they just take a picture with someone acting out the dos and donts. I have seen line drawings also. The purchased ones I have seen are nice photos or nice cartoon drawings.

 

My son is doing it at "camp" because they go swimming on Wednesdays so they go over pool safety. So I don't know exactly what they are doing; but I know he is doing good with it.

[Lecka]

Oh, E, with pictures you can work in describing the picture, asking wh questions, etc. I feel like people use them with Eli a lot because it is like a 2-for-1 that way.

 

Canadian Mom, that sounds cool :)

[Guest]

This personal story was shared temporarily and I have now deleted it. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Guest