LEGO Mindstorms / First Lego League

[chilliepepper]

Our boys have shown an interest in Robotics and love all things LEGO. So we are thinking about biting the bullet and getting a Mindstorms set. 

 

My question is if we have two boys of the appropriate age for Mindstorms (plus a 4yo who will think he also wants to do it), do we have to get more than one set? Or is it an activity that can be done together without too much fighting?

 

Which set is the best to start with? It looks like there are a handful of different ones.

 

I'm also looking into First Lego League but having trouble finding a local chapter. I can find links for starting a team or attending an event, but nothing about teams that already exist. We live in Montgomery County Md, just outside DC, so I have trouble believing there wouldn't already be existing teams. Do I have to know a secret handshake or something?

 

My boys are 10 and 8, FWIW.

[rutheart]

They hide existing team information on their website - safety/privacy issues for the kids, I think. Our team is through Girl Scouts, so you might check with your local Boy Scouts. Public middle schools usually have a team (I don't know if Maryland allows homeschoolers to participate in extracurriculars). I'd also inquire at your local homeschool co-ops. Even if they don't have a team themselves, they probably know somebody that does.

 

We have an EV3 set that we're currently using for 4 girls. I'd say a 1:2 ratio for the robot would be more ideal. If you want to do FLL, the boys will need to be able to work on it together, as part of the grading rubric for the competitions is "coopertition" http://www.usfirst.org/aboutus/gracious-professionalism

 

My team has only been meeting for 2 months, but I can already see the benefit of the time/money commitment!

 

Also, once you have the robot, this site is great for introducing the programming: http://ev3lessons.com/lessons.html

 

Ruth

 

[chilliepepper]

That makes sense and after digging around a little more, I found the page on their website that explains why they really just encourage you to start a team. It looks like teams pretty much fill up instantly---all it would really take is a couple of families and everyone knows at least one more family that would be interested.

 

It looks like we could probably do it ourselves regardless of whether we start a team, right? Just buy the kit and maybe a book, check out the website you linked to and away we go?

 

If we did start a team, I guess one family would own the robot though, right?

[rutheart]

There's a huge learning curve. A veteran coach told me that a realistic expectation is just to make the robot move at your first competition. You could spend a year letting them learn how to program the robot. I would definitely take them to an event like http://makerfairedc.com/about/(assuming they'll have an FLL booth there, like the Maker Faire in Atlanta does) so they could see what a competition table looks like and talk to kids involved so they get excited about the following year.

FWIW, it took us two months of hard campaigning to find the final 2 girls of our team. Almost everyone we talked to was interested, but almost all had a time conflict and/or weren't prepared to commit that much time to robotics. So if you plan to start FLL in August 2016, I'd start recruiting by end of April, before everyone goes off on summer vacations.

Ruth

[paceofnature]

My son and I actually went to an open house today, and that group was associated with 4H...so that may be another place to look for a group.

[Targhee]

You will be able to find an FLL organization by going to the First Robotics Website. I'm sure MD has an umbrella organization, if not a smaller organization putting together events just in the metro DC area.

 

To participate in FLL you only need one robots. You can have extra parts, but only one controller brick so a second one won't help in FLL. As far as sibling rivalry, that's a mom call.

 

FLL, I believe, is actually easy to get into. My DH and I jumped in as coaches last year because we had two kids who wanted to do it. We aren't coaching this year because we don't have the time, which makes me sad because it is an excellent program and lots of fun to do. My dd competed on a girl scout team the year before we coached, so check out GSA to see if they have teams. There have been several other posts about FLL, but I wanted to reiterate that the robot games are only PART of the FLL competition. There is the project, Core Values, and robot design and program (independent of performance). All parts are important.

 

Unless you have big pockets you may want to invite others to join your FLL team (and spread the cost). The fees vary by state/competition (ours was $224). The First fees are around $175, plus $75 for the field kit. To make a decent table will probably run you $75-120. That doesn't include the cost of the robot, team shirts/uniforms/costumes (these range from matching shirts to full-on wigs, buttons, lab coats, etc - you choose), materials for the project, snacks to feed your team while practicing, and a space to rent if you don't have enough room in your house (you need to be able to run the robot on the table to practice and it is 4ft by 8ft, plus a few feet on each side to move around, so at least a 10ft by 14ft room I would venture).

 

Awww, I am feeling sad about not participating this year. It really is a great program. Best wishes!!

[duckens]

People have told you the good parts of FLL.  I am here to tell you the bad and the ugly.

We have not had good experiences with FLL.  Frustration Frustration Frustration.

They are very happy to take your money, but unless you (yourself) are a programmer or engineer, you are pretty much on your own.  Have fun teaching yourself.  The part about needing deep pockets is true.

If you invite friends, do you have a plan for how to divvy up the legos at whatever point you dissolve the group?  Or do they pay for expensive legos for you to keep?

The FLL website is possibly the worst websiteI have ever seen.  And it is embarrassing because they are supposedly nerds.  It is NOT user friendly.  Whenever I WOULD finally stumble on something useful, I could never find it a second time.

--I understand that they want to protect the kids' identities, but the site is chock full of photos of the kids while FLL tooted their own horn.  Finding the list of local teams was the EASIEST thing I found on the site.
--Unless they have changed it, there is zero information for how much it costs to start a team.  You don't get that information until until after you are registered.
--Unless they have changed it, there is zero information for what is recommended for supplies for a team (which kits, how many kits, and the cost) until after you are registered.  I would be curious of how many people register, and maybe buy the kits, but never make it to a competition.
--If you are lucky, you may be contacted about local possible competitions.  But you may not be lucky.
--The perameters of the (Junior) FLL competitions are difficult to find on the website.  They have no examples of what other kids have done in the past.

--------------------------------------
We HAVE had good experience with just building and programming on our own.  We used the Lego WeDo kits from LegoEducation.  They are expensive, but at least they were ours to keep.  We paid for them, but had friends join us for building time.  It kept things simple.

Lego Mindstorms is one step up.  We have friends who use them (again, on their own).  They enjoy them.

[Targhee]

Oh that's too bad you had so much frustration - sorry! :-(

 

FLL isn't supposed to show you how to do it - that's the challenge. neither DH or I are programmers or engineers or in tech industry in any way. Sounds like your local group wasn't very supportive - ours offers coaches training (free), and an online forum for coaches to talk. At our regional event about half were school groups (with tech teachers) and the other half were club groups. My dd's Girl Scout team had a mom (former English teacher) coaching.

[Acorn]

Our experience with Jr FLL was wonderful. We did have to create our own team. The project and presentation are meant to be child directed. Our team did a fantastic job, but it definitely wasn't how the adults would have created it. There is no scoring in the Jr FLL anyways. The motto is that everyone is a winner, everyone gets positive comments from a judge and they all get medals.

 

Each team member paid $50 to the coach. This covered shirts, team registration, event entry fee and some of the WeDo kit. The coach's family absorbed the rest of the lego kit and will be its owners.

[athomeontheprairie]

I looked into fll for my girls. BUT the reality is, competition is too far away. I also didn't want the science competition part. I really only wanted the robotics. Maybe if I saw how full tied the two together I would feel differently.

I considered starting my own team, and splitting the cost... BUT then who really owns the kit? .

 

So, I worked with local organizations. I raised the money. I haven't had any problem finding kids interested in learning. Two "local" universities offer Lego robotic competitions each spring. These are free. We go there.

 

Maybe not joining fll is an option? There are so many Lego robotics websites, blogs, and books out there. It is hard to fail if you are willing to spend some time working on it.