7th Grade Math and does their brain really not remember?

[SonshineLearner]

Hi There,

 

So, I did Singapore through 6a last year with my daughter. This year she's started Saxon a bit. School is a struggle; math is almost murder. Last year I actually sat problem through problem with her. After she cried and acted like I was extracting teeth, she would figure out the problem. It took about 1.5 hrs a day of torture to do math with her. (I did not figure out any problems for her, just was there...)

 

I had her tested in PS for "placement". She did not do well at all. I'm trying to figure out how much of this is 12 year old brain that will connect by say.. next year. How much of it should I just force her to work?? (is it worth everything to have her plow through math, while wanting to shoot each other?)

 

How much math can you force into their little heads, if their heads are not wanting the knowledge.

 

Can I let her live? :D

[abbeyej]

Just to clarify... Math was always this difficult? Or are you saying this is new behavior this year?

[Testimony]

My older son could memorize passages in Bible club. He struggled to memorize his passages this year.

 

I notice a dip in his IOWA test scores too. He scored in the high 90s. It was the low 90s this time.

 

I wonder because he just turned 13 years old. Maybe the change in development has effected their brain? I don't know. My son is struggling with Singapore also. He is taking NEM 1. It is so hard. It takes my son 1.5 hours to complete the math. I was thinking of putting him in Saxon Algebra 1 next year just to give him a break or (insane me) do NEM 2 and Saxon Algebra 1 with no extra books like Life of Fred (though I think no LOF might devastate him). You know one time the math was so difficult that we both spent 3 hours on a problem. We love it anyway. It makes math fun.

 

Blessings on your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[SonshineLearner]

She's never liked math, except for when she was small. I am having a hard time trying to figure out if I should force it.... I absolutely LOVED Singapore and told her that at least one of us did.... With Saxon, I actually gave her the choice... and she said that she wasn't going to like any math... so she'd just do Saxon. :(

[Cleopatra]

Another Saxon torture story here! :ack2: At the end of two years I decided we had to change programs or the men in the little white coats would be coming for us. :D

 

I would try changing programs if it's that torturous. I've changed programs so many times and, in spite of cautions from other people re: jumping around, my dd doesn't seem to have suffered from it.

 

In fact, this year because I have no teacher breathing down my neck (long story ..... a DL program in B.C.), we have actually done less math, but my dd has progressed faster. She's been able to skip a book in Horizons, which she has never been able to do before when I was trying to shove math into her 5 days per week. Don't misunderstand me, we still do math regularly but there isn't the underlying tension to keep up and finish a book in a year. It was as if, when the pressure disappeared, her mind was able to open up and absorb concepts better.

 

Have you looked at Life of Fred for some fun? What about Teaching Textbooks? After resisting it for so long, I finally bought it for this year and it does the job. My dd doesn't love it but she doesn't hate it either.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help but you certainly have my sympathy!

[Matryoshka]

She's never liked math, except for when she was small. I am having a hard time trying to figure out if I should force it.... I absolutely LOVED Singapore and told her that at least one of us did.... With Saxon, I actually gave her the choice... and she said that she wasn't going to like any math... so she'd just do Saxon. :(

 

I had a really hard time with one of my dds in Singapore 6 last year, and so this year decided to switch her to Lial's BCM (her twin is doing Discovering Mathematics). I thought it would give her a chance to consolidate her basics.

 

Well, it's almost all review and it's so.many.problems. I've just decided to chuck it and get her Lial's Pre-Algebra instead. She likes the format, but I think doing a billion adding fractions problems when she's been doing them since 4th grade (or is it 3rd) makes her sloppier instead of the reverse. There isn't a whole chapter of new material till the last one (!) The Pre-Algebra has an entirely different TOC - I'd thought from reviews here they weren't that different, that BCM just had a bit more review. Anyhow, just commiserating. :tongue_smilie: Oh, and I'd cry if I had to to Saxon too. :D

 

One thing that's surprised me and gives me hope - in desperation to find anything that would get her to engage with math, I bought her Danica McKellar's Kiss My Math - Showing Pre-Algebra Who's Boss. She is actually reading it and enjoying it! :svengo: She's actually asked me to get her the first book, Math Doesn't Suck, which is "Middle School Math" - looking at the TOCs of these two books helped me finally decide to chuck the BCM - it's contents are pretty much similar to the "Middle School Math" book, and Lial's Pre-Algebra lines up with Kiss My Math. If she needs more review, I think the McKellar book will be a better route. I don't really like the titles, but I can't argue with a math book that my daughter wants to read... she has done lots of LOF, which she tolerates. She did LOF Pre-Algebra/Bio last summer, but only because it was the least objectionable option.

 

It is good I didn't have her continue with Singapore DM, though - it's way more challenging than either Lial's text. I'm hoping the new Lial's will be a middle path...

Edited December 15, 2010 by matroyshka
Added comment on LOF

[Capt_Uhura]

Matroyskha - Have you written a review of Discovering Math? I'd love to read more of your thoughts on it in a separate thread. And what math did your DD do before moving to DM?

Edited December 15, 2010 by Capt_Uhura

[Matryoshka]

Matroyskha - Have you written a review of Discovering Math? I'd love to more of your thoughts on it in a separate thread. And what math did your DD do before moving to DM?

 

I'm really liking it, and so is she. Before DM, she did Singapore up through 6b (along with her sister), and last summer she did the first half of the AoPS Number Theory book - she plans to finish it next summer. Both DM and the Number Theory book take her a while to get through a problem set, but she doesn't seem to mind much because she likes it. I often let her do just some of the problems - basically if she can do the hard ones correctly, I don't make her do the easy ones. After we've finished a chapter in the text, I have her do a bunch of the problems in the workbook - they're more challenging than the ones in the text - kind of like IP for DM. I'm making her tests from a Question Bank book for DM.

[Capt_Uhura]

Where did you get the question bank book for DM? At SM website?

[Matryoshka]

Where did you get the question bank book for DM? At SM website?

 

That's where I saw it and realized it existed, but I managed to get a copy cheaper from Amazon.

[Capt_Uhura]

OK thanks!

[Melissa in CA]

She sounds a bit like my oldest ds. The only time he did well in math was when he was young, and then from 3rd grade on he always struggled in it, never liked it. At the beginning of 5th grade I had him tested and found that he had/has a slight LD. The dr(?) said that he would always find math (and abstract things) difficult and that at some point in his life he would learn to work around his deficiencies. He did and he has.

 

There is a difference between disliking math (don't most kids?) and math being too 'hard' and therefore disliking it/struggling with it. I can tell you one thing...Saxon is not a good program for a child that does not 'get' math; finds math too hard. Been there. Done that. In fact, I would even go out on a limb and say that I think it's the worst program for a child like that...and I don't know that Singapore is any better. Some children need a basic traditional/mastery math (think BJU)...a math with a lot of review and constant teaching/reteaching. Another good program is CLE, not really what one would call 'traditional' but definitely good. In my [experienced] opinion Singapore does not have enough reteaching/review and Saxon is waaaaaay to incremental and frustrating.

 

Many children also need a very mastery type math (think MUS) where they only have to focus on one main concept over and over and over. My oldest ds may have done well with MUS, but we hadn't heard of it at the time, instead we used mostly Abeka...though now having used BJU for many years I would say BJU is mucho better.

 

ANYHOW, all that to say, in my experience I would say try something traditional. Pick up a used BJU set. Or if you want something semi-traditional with constant review, but more independent, pick up a couple CLE light units and try them out. My 13 yo ds has done very well with BJU the last several years but is now loving CLE's math. I say try the more traditional route. Seriously. Math doesn't need to be trendy. ;)

[KarenNC]

I don't know that I'd describe Saxon as "trendy" :001_smile::001_smile:. At this point, you have the Saxon program. Before spending more money on another program, you might try contacting Art Reed, a veteran Saxon teacher who gives free phone consultations (he has unlimited long distance, so you don't even pay the phone charges) regarding Saxon usage. I did this recently for my daughter and things are really looking up for us.

 

My daughter is very bright, gifted in language, but closer to average in math. It's just something that doesn't come easily, and that frustrates her more because other things do come easily. Singapore gave us the torture and tears as well, just as you are describing, though I stuck with it for years because everyone said it was the "only" program to use and Saxon would "kill" any hope of doing well at math. I've found exactly the opposite (not that I'd say Saxon is the only one for anyone). Saxon is worlds better for us, but I had messed up where to place her (I knew when I picked the level to start that that might be an issue and it was). He was able to get me back on track with it, as well as give me some good tips on implementing the correct level. You've nothing to lose but a little time on the phone. If you don't like his advice, go ahead and switch.

 

http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/

 

He's also done teaching dvds for about $50 per level for Saxon (I think Algebra 1/2 and up are available, he's working on 7/6 and 8/7). I'm considering getting these for next year, just to take myself out of the equation as much as possible in hopes that that will help the "pubescent brain/preteen-teen independence" issue. I'm also planning to get his book on using Saxon (it's about $20) once the holidays are over.

Edited December 19, 2010 by KarenNC

[Melissa in CA]

I don't know that I'd describe Saxon as "trendy" :001_smile::001_smile:.

 

:lol: No, it isn't anymore, but back in the day I used it with my older boys it was. In fact, it was constantly implied that you were NOT giving your dc the best math education if you were not using Saxon! (ack!) Kinda like how some feel in regards to Singapore now-a-days(which I did try with youngest ds and didn't like at all) and/or LOF, Math Mammoth, etc., etc., etc. The BEST math program, in my opinion, is the one your child can relate to and learn from.

 

As for Saxon, it would not matter where I placed my children in the program because it wasn't the lack of prior knowledge/ability that made it a detestible math, it was the itty-bitty incremental tid-bits of knowledge with very little initial review that drove them batty. ;) I gave Saxon a good solid 2-year try with my older boys. It was pure torture. For my oldest moving on to Abeka was a breath of fresh air...he still didn't love math, but he could accomplish it in a timely manner. My middle ds went on to BJU math/science in high school and did very well. I didn't even consider Saxon a viable math option for my youngest. :tongue_smilie::D

 

BUT, having said that, I know some students really thrive on Saxon...as well as other trendy and not-so-trendy programs. There's room in the world for all of them. :D