Japanese math

[mom2agang]

I read a earlier post about it but nobody had "really" used it. Can someone give a review of it? Does it compare to Singapore?

[westcoastmom]

Are you asking about a specific Japanese math program? Soroban (abacus)?

[Ohdanigirl]

I believe you are asking about this http://www.globaledresources.com/

 

i haven't used it, but I know the thead you are taliking about. As far as I could tell nobody was that familiar with it yet, but someone did say it was similar to Singapore.

[mom2agang]

I think that is the one. I know bill was trying it.

[Ohdanigirl]

I am sure once Bill sees the post you'll get a detailed response. Bill seems to be the go to person for math stuff, LOL.

[mom2agang]

Bumping for Bill

[Ohdanigirl]

:lurk5:bump

[Spy Car]

Have I been summoned?

 

I did purchase the First levels of the Tokyo Shoseki's Mathematics for Elementary School and the accompanying workbooks Kyoiku Dojinsha Mathematics Workbook .

 

I feel very positively towards these materials. There is some similarity to Singapore, but enough that is different to make it valuable and interesting to the young one. And I "stole" a number of good ideas from this series.

 

I did feel a certain lack of resources (for me) in the method/teacher materials to back up the pedological model. Japanese teachers obviously have a lot of training to make this a full curriculum. A large part of the fault is my own, as I didn't acquire any teaching materials. D'oh!

 

"Stripe" kindly pointed me to some teacher materials recently which I have down-loaded (but not yet assimilated). So that might solve that part of the equation. And is something I wish I'd done earlier. This is not to say there is anything "daunting" in Level One, I just like to bring a lot to the table.

 

For us the Kyoiku Dojinsha Mathematics Workbooks , especially were a fun supplement to EB Singapore. If you (or your children) especially enjoy the colorful illustrations in EB Singapore you (they) will like these too.

 

I can not say that I've given this program a "full shot". Certainly not as a full curriculm, and I've only seen sample beyond Level One, so I don't want to make "big judgments. But what I seen I've liked. Very much actually.

 

I'd like to see the supplementary materials for this program expanded for the home education (and even school markets). And I have no reason to believe that this is anything other than a high-quality math program. "Practical" concerns push me in the direction of "Singapore", and one can't "do it all".

 

But I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from giving this a shot. it's the number one math program in Japan, and obviously successful there.

 

HTHs

 

Bill

Edited May 10, 2009 by Spy Car

[Ray]

I read a earlier post about it but nobody had "really" used it. Can someone give a review of it? Does it compare to Singapore?

 

 

"I think they are much the same. They both use algorithms, and word problems, and number bonds. I'd say they are like eating ice cream, like they are easy kind've, and challenging sometimes. "

 

How is eating ice cream challenging?

"no, like ice cream for the easy part"

 

What about the Japanese program do you like?

"their books are small" "the pictures are fun" "they give you good hints"

 

Hi, the blue text is my daughters she is half way into the 2a Japanese workbook. We are using Singapore Math (right now 2b), but added the other program recently.

Global resources books introduce algorithms faster than Singapore does, also explicit decimal notation (Singapore introduces decimals by $$ problems). Fractions dont enter the picture until 4b in the Japanese series, and Singapore Math starts the fraction stuff much earlier.

Oh, the Japanese books use techincal names sooner, things like minuend, multiplicand etc (off the top of my head).

Ray

[mom2agang]

Thanks so much! I'm still debating what to use with my younger ones. I'm leaning towards Singapore but then found this.

[westcoastmom]

Are there teacher's manuals or something similar to go with the Japanese textbooks?

[Ray]

Are there teacher's manuals or something similar to go with the Japanese textbooks?

 

Nothing like a Singapore Home Instructor guide, but they do have some some electronic format stuff some free, some for fee.

 

I did order a $21 'excerpt' interesting but not so useful .

 

I am currently using this and find it worth the money http://www.singaporemath.com/Elementary_Math_for_Teachers_Complete_Package_p/emftcp.htm

Edited May 11, 2009 by Ray

[Spy Car]

Nothing like a Singapore Home Instructor guide, but they do have some some electronic format stuff some free, some for fee.

 

I did order a $21 'excerpt' interesting but not so useful .

 

I am currently using this and find it worth the money http://www.singaporemath.com/Elementary_Math_for_Teachers_Complete_Package_p/emftcp.htm

 

Welcome to the forum Ray!

 

Yours is the second recommendation this week for Elementary Math for Teachers (the other was from "Stripe"). I'm now on the hunt for this work.

 

Can you share a little more about your math approach with your daughter? And how Japanese math fits in to what you are doing?

 

Again welcome!

 

Bill

[stripe]

There is a teacher guide available on Global Education Resources' website, and I have it. It doesn't really hold your hand and tell you what to do each day or anything like that. It articulates the goals for the the grade, or the sub-area, and mentions areas that students may find troublesome. It's in the neighborhood of 100-150 pages for k-6.

 

There is a national curriculum, so all the books (put out by private publishers) must meet the goals so they are fairly similar. I believe there are two English translations of a textbook -- the books by Tokyo Shoseki (available from Global Education Resources) and "Mathematics for Elementary School: Study with your friends" by Gakuto Tosho.

 

Tad Watanabe's blog has some useful information on the Japanese approach; I posted this info in the previous thread on Japanese approach to math.

 

I've just been reading Mathematics Curriculum in Pacific Rim Countries--China, Japan, Korea, and Singapore, and one of the things Tad Watanabe addresses in his article about Japanese elementary texts, is their use of mathematical language and expecting students even in Grade 1 to adopt a more formal approach to, for example, mathematical expressions -- i.e. having students write their answers in an equation form, even when the book supplies the structure of the equation, such as ☐ + ☐ = ☐ . He includes this quote : "it is important to teach children to focus on the meaning of mathematical expressions instead of paying attention solely to getting results" (Takahashi, Watanabe, Yoshida in Elementary school teaching guide for the Japanese Course of Study, 2004).

 

He also mentions the importance of presenting problems relying on the student to puzzle them out, which requires them to analyze what has been learned previously and apply it to a new problems, possibly changing it along the way.

 

Another contributor, B. E. Peterson, analyzed several Japanese junior high school math texts and mentioned the style of setting up each section by asking a question designed to spark student's thinking. These questions are designed to get the students to think about the meaning of different elements, instead of merely solving the problem at hand. The books also contain a much smaller number of homework type problems compared to American texts. Peterson also echoed Watanabe in remarking about the simpler, more descriptive mathematical language (saying "first degree equations" rather than "linear equations").

[Ray]

Can you share a little more about your math approach with your daughter? And how Japanese math fits in to what you are doing?

 

Hey, thanks for the welcome Spy Car and sorry took so long to follow up. We try for 6 days a week studying math. To make room for Japanese math I trimmed off all the Singapore Supplements except for CWP. At some points we were using 4-5 extras- a real case of missing the forest for the trees. Right now we are in a ‘hold and improve’ mode at SM 2b, and the 3a texts begin to mature -less color , font changes, older cartoon kids, and more work. The Japanese math is giving DD fresh air to recover from my over exuberant use of SM Supplements. Right now we are doing 5 days JM and 1 day SM.

 

Stripe and yourself have already noted many of the Japanese Math’s outstanding points, and I have all the materials to look through, and it’s strong all the way to the last book.

 

I intend to follow each curriculum as a stand alone, and each will move ahead or hang back until the understanding comes. Change from a DD solo/workbook-problem- solving-quantity-of-pages-done approach to team Dad/daughter dry-erase/chalkboard explore-the-text-together approach. Bansho/ Neriage (blackboard/discussion) by doing these well I expect the workbook problems to require the effort of an afterthought. Well that’s long winded...Oy I'm going to teach better! :tongue_smilie:

 

Ray

Edited May 13, 2009 by Ray

[stripe]

Interesting. Thank you very much, Ray, for your thoughts.

 

I'm contemplating doing Japanese math + CWP, while having the Singapore texts around for reference. I now own the translations of Tokyo Shoseki's grade 7-9 texts published by the University of Chicago (thanks, WTM board). I find them fascinatingly short.

 

I also find the Parker and Baldridge book good. I've started in on Ron Aharoni's "Arithmetic for Parents" book too.

 

I love the idea of doing a problem and mulling it over. I'm not entirely sure how this works in the homeschool setting as one doesn't have multiple student approaches to play off one another, but I think it actually fits better with, say, Charlotte Mason than most following her method seem to care about (a pet peeve of mine since reading her original series), and could potential build deeper understanding and problem solving. Personally speaking, I distinctly remember all through my education, the idea (on my teachers' parts) that a big pile of identical type problems was somehow stretching my brain, when I found it, even at age 9, to be a waste of time. I wanted something deeper but never found it. And personally I have always felt a great gap in all spheres of my own education, including math. I am hoping to remedy that with some sort of "master plan" to provide more coherant coverage.

 

That being said, I read somewhere that the texts never explicitly show certain things, but that they are assumed to have been learned, and the example was given of adding where one must "rebundle" ("carry") a digit, e.g. 12 + 9. Can you comment? Have you observed any (for lack of a better word) odd gaps in the text such as this?

[Spy Car]

Can you share a little more about your math approach with your daughter? And how Japanese math fits in to what you are doing?

 

Hey, thanks for the welcome Spy Car and sorry took so long to follow up. We try for 6 days a week studying math. To make room for Japanese math I trimmed off all the Singapore Supplements except for CWP. At some points we were using 4-5 extras- a real case of missing the forest for the trees. Right now we are in a ‘hold and improve’ mode at SM 2b, and the 3a texts begin to mature -less color , font changes, older cartoon kids, and more work. The Japanese math is giving DD fresh air to recover from my over exuberant use of SM Supplements. Right now we are doing 5 days JM and 1 day SM.

 

Stripe and yourself have already noted many of the Japanese Math’s outstanding points, and I have all the materials to look through, and it’s strong all the way to the last book.

 

I intend to follow each curriculum as a stand alone, and each will move ahead or hang back until the understanding comes. Change from a DD solo/workbook-problem- solving-quantity-of-pages-done approach to team Dad/daughter dry-erase/chalkboard explore-the-text-together approach. Bansho/ Neriage (blackboard/discussion) by doing these well I expect the workbook problems to require the effort of an afterthought. Well that’s long winded...Oy I'm going to teach better! :tongue_smilie:

 

Ray

 

I've been in a balancing act myself, drawing on many different sources. This was easier when we were doing the EB Singapore, but the recent arrival of the Primary Math 1A/1B materials pulled us into "workbook" mode a little, and while it hasn't been a "solo" activity, I've begun thinking we've lost a bit of the daddy and son lets-do-it-together approach that has made our math-time so rewarding. This really dawned on me last night, Reading your post only drives the point home.

 

And your reference to Dad/daughter answers the $64,000 question :D

 

I do love the quote in your signature:

 

A mind is a fire

to be kindled

not a vessel to

be filled

 

-Plutarch

 

I look forward to future dialogue.

 

Bill

[Ray]

Interesting. <sniped>

 

That being said, I read somewhere that the texts never explicitly show certain things, but that they are assumed to have been learned, and the example was given of adding where one must "rebundle" ("carry") a digit, e.g. 12 + 9. Can you comment? Have you observed any (for lack of a better word) odd gaps in the text such as this?

 

They do show the usual digit notation, in a word bubble illustration that is part of the main Algorithm explanation. Note it does look like they want you to know what is going on but not necessarily to write it down. The workbooks do have a box for that reqrouped digit. So my guess is if the kid doesnt want to write it down but instead manages the regrouping in their heads they get the benifit of a less cluttered algorithm, and maybe for some, the process of writing is more work than its worth in terms of effort?

 

I agree the books are "short" that plus the amount of 45min periods these kids study math- I'd say they are workin lots of Bansho.

 

Oh, I think one will want to look closely at everything, on every page to include the pictures, I dont think they are for decoration. ;)

Edited May 14, 2009 by Ray

[stripe]

Ray - What do you feel is the difference between the Singaporean and Japanese approach?

 

One thing that is tempting me is that I prefer the ordering of topics in Japanese curriculum. I am interested in the geometric aspect of the Japanese program, but, now that I have years 5 and 6 of Singapore to study, I see that they include geometry as well. I will have to look at this more.

 

(As a somewhat unrelated aside, based on my reading of "Mathematics Curriculum in Pacific Rim Countries," I've learned that Japanese, Singaporean, and Korean curricula use number bonds extensively.)

[Ray]

Ray - What do you feel is the difference between the Singaporean and Japanese approach?

 

One thing that is tempting me is that I prefer the ordering of topics in Japanese curriculum. I am interested in the geometric aspect of the Japanese program, but, now that I have years 5 and 6 of Singapore to study, I see that they include geometry as well. I will have to look at this more.

 

(As a somewhat unrelated aside, based on my reading of "Mathematics Curriculum in Pacific Rim Countries," I've learned that Japanese, Singaporean, and Korean curricula use number bonds extensively.)

 

I don't know, both only cover a few things and mostly the same things. Some flavoring differences of early stuff: JM more concrete with geometry, SM more concrete with numbers. The Japanese math clearly shows children tracing various shapes on paper using physical objects as well early introduction of compass/set square. The Singapore math use shape pictures. SM gets concrete (bowls/counters), with all four operations early(1a/1b), where JM gets into the math sentence use early,but only add/sub (1a/1b).

 

But there are more words and pictures in the JM books, yet they are smaller in size than SM textbooks. The JM books often show two or more children working something out. The JM books use "lets" and "please" frequently when posing questions. Translation wierdness happens once in awhile example "man" for 10,000 number with JM books. Nothing like that in Sm, but the Singapore books use sparce wording anyway.

 

If I based all info about SM off the textbooks I would have done little facts study, the JM books make this explicit. SM spends a good deal of time with number bond problems, and JM spends more time with the algorithms. JM gets to the 'why' of algorithms during their explanation, where Singapore learns the why before the algorithm.

 

Fwi. We have another kid, and if we only used JM with him...we would still use SM 1A/1b books.

 

Again I dont know, but if I can up with a better Verbalization I'll post it.:001_huh:

[stripe]

That is exactly what I've been wanting to know. Thank you ever so much for this, Ray. I had this impression of the geometry angle, for lack of a better word, in the Japanese books, but I am glad to have it confirmed.

 

Yes, Japanese people do say "let's" a lot (and "we" rather than the generic "you," for example, "we should eat vegetables every day for good health!" instead of "you should..." -- an interesting difference, I feel!). About the big numbers - there are specific words in Japanese for these, as you have observed....Perhaps this page from GER will help, for those who haven't seen it

http://www.globaledresources.com/resources.html --> Replacement Units

 

There are specific replacement sections for 3A and 4A, with more American examples, plus a 2 page explanation document.

 

[We (!) have to write in our names and affiliations to download it (free), but I've never received mailings from them.]

[SonshineLearner]

I have a program from nurtureminds.com I plan to continue using is along the way. Can I just do math all day?? I really don't know how you all do 2-3 maths... I love the math... I love the different parts.... I think I'll just sit at the table and do math... WAIT... some of you are reading about math, too!! Wow....

 

Carrie:-)