It's the weekend, time for church questions! About MacArthur-style churches...

[AuntieM]

That sounds kind of goofy, "MacArthur-style churches," but I guess you may figure out that I mean the type of independent evangelical church that tends to follow the teachings of John MacArthur. Those that send pastors to his training conferences and seminars.

 

DH and I are looking for a church that teaches in-depth truth, but at the same time exercises great grace, free grace. We have found terrific teaching at two local M-style churches, but we have had checks in our spirit about how the "grace alone" applies in practical application...

 

I really do not wish to offend anyone by this thread, but I need some answers. If you have attended such a church, and realized that - based on doctrinal issues rather than individuals in the body - it was not for you, would you mind sharing your thoughts? Feel free to pm me if you feel that is more appropriate.

 

Thanks.

[sunshine]

We are members of an Independent Baptist church that is reformed in doctrinal beliefs. Our pastor is a great follower of John MacArthur and our youth interim pastor graduated from his seminary. The leadership of my church actually just returned from J. MacArthur's church for a leadership conference last week. So we are I guess a MacArthur church. We also are great fans of C.J. Mahaney and John Piper. THey all teach the reformed theology of election and grace. Grace in our church is distinctively taught as a gift from God not to be taken advantage of the way some do. Example: I drink and live like a carnal christian because I am covered by Grace.

We are appalled by anyone not living a Holy Life with determinatin of soul because the Apostle taught that we are not given grace that we might sin without fear, our sin is covered, but that it would spur us to even more determined holiness and humility because of the Grace.

 

That is what MacArthur teaches. You live under grace, yes, but not so that you have an excuse for your sin, but you have a reason for leading holy lives.

 

So many times people take grace to the extreme and it is hard to see how it results in the changed life that Christ said would be evidence of salvation. They extend grace to cover all things. But we are told to uncover sin and let the light that shines on it bring repentance. We are told live a holy life as He is Holy. So grace is there because we are weak but not to cover an unrepentant life.

 

I don't know if that helped at all. But it seemed in your question that you were questioning their beliefs on grace and seemed uncomfortable to the extent it was extended in the churches you visited. Keep searching, God will bring you to where He wants you.

[Jean in Newcastle]

By "grace alone" do you mean at salvation - ie. not teaching Lordship salvation? Our church is a independent dispensational church (similar in doctrinal beliefs to a Baptist church). We believe that you are saved "by grace alone" and that while Christ certainly is Lord, it isn't something that a new believer will necessarily realize at first (and it isn't a necessary realization for salvation).

 

While I freely acknowledge and celebrate other believers who believe differently from me about this, I would have a hard time being under a pastor who taught and believed differently.

 

What I personally have found is that it is more than semantics for me. I really does make a difference in how I interpret many areas of the Christian way of life. I believe that if I sin then I am "out of fellowship" and am not under the control of the Holy Spirit. Someone who continues in sin will not only not progress in their spiritual life but will be virtually indistinguishable from someone who is not a Christian - because they are being controlled by their sinful nature. So while someone who believes in Lordship salvation might question that carnal person's faith, I don't necessarily do so (though I might make sure that they really do understand that Christ died on the cross for their sins). I would approach that person more from a standpoint of them needing to get back under the filling of the Holy Spirit through confession. So what started out as a doctrinal issue has real life ramifications on how a church deals with those sorts of issues - as well as how they teach those things.

 

If I misunderstood what you are referring to, please forgive me!

[AuntieM]

Sunshine, I agree with you that abuse of grace is rampant in evangelical churches, and that is not the kind of "grace" we are looking for!

 

Jean, you hit the nail on the head! I will pm you, if you don't mind.

[Heather in Neverland]

We are members of an Independent Baptist church that is reformed in doctrinal beliefs. Our pastor is a great follower of John MacArthur and our youth interim pastor graduated from his seminary. The leadership of my church actually just returned from J. MacArthur's church for a leadership conference last week. So we are I guess a MacArthur church. We also are great fans of C.J. Mahaney and John Piper. THey all teach the reformed theology of election and grace. Grace in our church is distinctively taught as a gift from God not to be taken advantage of the way some do. Example: I drink and live like a carnal christian because I am covered by Grace.

We are appalled by anyone not living a Holy Life with determinatin of soul because the Apostle taught that we are not given grace that we might sin without fear, our sin is covered, but that it would spur us to even more determined holiness and humility because of the Grace.

 

That is what MacArthur teaches. You live under grace, yes, but not so that you have an excuse for your sin, but you have a reason for leading holy lives.

 

So many times people take grace to the extreme and it is hard to see how it results in the changed life that Christ said would be evidence of salvation. They extend grace to cover all things. But we are told to uncover sin and let the light that shines on it bring repentance. We are told live a holy life as He is Holy. So grace is there because we are weak but not to cover an unrepentant life.

 

I don't know if that helped at all. But it seemed in your question that you were questioning their beliefs on grace and seemed uncomfortable to the extent it was extended in the churches you visited. Keep searching, God will bring you to where He wants you.

 

I want to go to your church!!!!!