Jill Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 My ds is currently undiagnosed by a pro but I feel quite strongly that he has SPD and its effects on him. 2 professionals have suggested we might want diagnosis at some point. I'm working towards getting OT. But ds has responded somewhat to recent supplements: b12, epsom salt baths, regular omega3s and zinc if I can get a pinch of powder in milk. We also try to keep artificial colors and preservatives out of him (and we do a good job) as we can see a direct effect after eating, say, Froot Loops. I'm wondering if anyone here would like to look at the ingredients and comment on this supplement? http://www.luckyvitamin.com/item/itemKey/67161 I'm thinking of it because of the zinc and magnesium content and it seems like it would be in a form that would be palatable and accessible to him. I'm unfamiliar with the other ingredients though I'll be able to look them up this weekend. So, any comments are appreciated! - Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5knights3maidens Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Have you gotten him tested for vitamin deficiency? I would do that first. My dd takes "E-lyte" pre-mixed minerals and "BodyBio" magnesium and zinc (all three are clear liquid). She also takes Arctic D Fish Oil, Miracle 2000 whole body nutrition, "Integrative Therapeutics, Inc." chewable B12 Active tablets, and "VillageGreen" Pathway B-complex-50. Also, are you sure he can have milk? Edited January 23, 2009 by 5knights3maidens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cillakat Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I'm thinking of it because of the zinc and magnesium content and it seems like it would be in a form that would be palatable and accessible to him. I'm unfamiliar with the other ingredients though I'll be able to look them up this weekend. So, any comments are appreciated! - Jill There isn't enough of 'the actives' in it to be other than window dressing. My favorite magnesium is the Jigsaw chelated time released mag glycinate (albion labs chelated magnesium). that stuff is *awesome*. My girls take two a day.....i take 1-4 (depending on other dietary factors, mood factors etc....and i get mag from other supplements as well). The pill is VERY easy to swallow. However, if he can't swallow pills, I'd consider 1)liquid magnesium citrate or 2)mag citrate powder. We can't take mag citrate at all...gives us all the runs:) but most can tolerate sufficient mag citrate to be helpful in terms of 'calming'. Mag citrate liquid can be found cheaply at any drugstore. It's sold as 'laxative' with directions to take insane amounts (half the bottle). Of course, you'd be using it as a supplement, so doses would be fractions of a tsp. iherb Magnesium Citrate flavored powders: http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=5124&at=0 Have you gotten him tested for vitamin deficiency? I would do that first. My dd takes "E-lyte" pre-mixed minerals and "BodyBio" magnesium and zinc (all three are clear liquid). She also takes Arctic D Fish Oil, Miracle 2000 whole body nutrition, "Integrative Therapeutics, Inc." chewable B12 Active tablets, and "VillageGreen" Pathway B-complex-50. Spectra cell or similar 'intracellular' testing can be helpful. So can thorough metabolic testing from metametrix or similar labs. Regular 'blood tests' from the doc will yield no good info since blood levels of calcium, magnesium, zinc etc are not valid indicators of total body status of those minerals (and more). I would encourage everyone to be astute when it comes to alternative practitioners and the supplements they sell. There is absolutely positively no benefit to buying supplements from them. No matter what they tell you of the quality, the special processing, the better quality control. Period. And when one factors in prices, it becomes truly clear. High quality, trustworthy brands can be found at fabulous prices at iherb.com I love my orthomolecular doc and have spent $$ to see her. But I won't throw extra money down the drain just to buy supplements from her that I could buy elsewhere at less than half the cost. Zinc status is very very easy to assess without testing as there is good documentation that 'taste perception of zinc in solution' is an accurate indicator of zinc tissue levels (have the journal article bookmarked on my other computer but my kids are asleep in that room right now...should be pretty easy to find on google scholar or pubmed if you're interested)....anyhoo, here is the product that came out of that research: http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=3624&at=0 It's very easy to estimate calcium and magnesium intake from food, then supplement calcium and magnesium as needed to bring up the totals to needed levels. the RDI is fine for calcium......many of us with 'issues';p seem to need more magnesium. Anxiety, ADHD, OCD, Tourette's can all benefit from dietary/supplemental magnesium taken in amounts greater than the RDI. I generally get around 1000 mg per day from all sources (less when using jigsaw chelate). The very best book on orthomolecular medicine (the use of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and efa's to treat illness/issues) is _Depression Free Naturally_ by Joan Matthew's Larson. Don't let the title mislead you:) It covers depression, bipolar, anxiety, ocd, blood sugar regulation issues and more. The detailed questionaires will point you in the direction of appropriate supplements even when the diagnosis doesn't match.....since it's the symptoms that matter, when treating orthomolecularly, rather than the the specific disorder you're trying to treat. This is one book worth having on hand - ie owning - rather than getting it from the library. :) Katherine Katherine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonor Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Klaire laboratories produces a very fine powdered flavored supplement for the specific needs of the "spectrum" it is called "Vita Spectrum" and can be ordered from "Wellness Health Pharmacy", I believe that is www.wellnesshealth.com. This is all natural. Klaire Labs produces supplements for very sensitive individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 There isn't enough of 'the actives' in it to be other than window dressing. What are considered "the actives"? The pill is VERY easy to swallow. However, if he can't swallow pills, I'd consider 1)liquid magnesium citrate or 2)mag citrate powder. iherb Magnesium Citrate flavored powders: http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=5124&at=0 He can't swallow pills yet. Thanks for the link. It's very easy to estimate calcium and magnesium intake from food, then supplement calcium and magnesium as needed to bring up the totals to needed levels. It's very easy...well, I'm not sure where to start. I make a custom pancake mix and he lives off those practically. he's a carb loader. He is probably low in magnesium, eh? but is there a guide? Thanks again for all the comments - Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cillakat Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 It's very easy...well, I'm not sure where to start. I make a custom pancake mix and he lives off those practically. he's a carb loader. He is probably low in magnesium, eh? but is there a guide? Thanks again for all the comments - Jill Yikes. Defintely not getting sufficient calcium, magnesium, zinc, EFA's (unless you're giving him fish oil......also probably not getting enough selenium, c and really all of the antioxdiants. nutritiondata.com is a good place to track nutrients. but at least with a *heavily* grain dominated diet it's easy to assume that unless it's fortified with iron and zinc, there will be deficiencies in all macronutrients.....and if it is fortified, there will still be insufficiency of most macronutrients. potassium too. and vitamin d. one can read about the ubiquitous nature of D deficiency at vitamindcouncil.org We all need it - much more than the RDA.....it's very possible that vitamin d deficiency during our pregnancies is a causative factor in many of the issue's we're dealing with - it's very possible that it 'turns on' gene expression for the genetic components of some of these issues. In many other cases, 'mental' illness is no more than insufficient amounts of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and efa's for optimal health - including optimal brain health. That's *clearly* what my anxiety disorder was: insufficient raw materials to keep my brain supplied with the necessary levels of neurotransmitters needed during periods of incredible physical and mental stress. :) K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaofredheads Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 It has excellent info on supplements & dietary changes: Dr. Bob's Guide to Stop ADHD in 18 Days. I know the title sounds "hypie" (is that a word? :)) but the book is full of good info. His website is www.druglessdoctor.com. I agree with the pp that sometimes supplements can be more expensive through a dr., but that is not the case with these. They are very reasonably priced. My chiropractor has used them for years (even before she became a chiro) and is very impressed with the quality. I got the book from Amazon. Hope you find what works for your little one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 Yikes. Defintely not getting sufficient calcium, magnesium, zinc, EFA's (unless you're giving him fish oil......also probably not getting enough selenium, c and really all of the antioxdiants. we are giving him fish oil and have been for a while with slight benefit. But we have seen further results from additional Vit D this winter, the epsom baths and vit B12. So I figure looking into his whole picture nutrient-wise might be a very worthy endeavor. maybe I exaggerate a bit (he eats peanut butter crackers, mac n cheese, apples, baby carrots, blueberries, drinks milk, bananas but, yeah, nothing green almost ever...) but thanks for the reminder of nutritiondata.com. I've used it for individual foods before but forgot about doing recipes in things like that. one can read about the ubiquitous nature of D deficiency at vitamindcouncil.org We all need it - much more than the RDA.....it's very possible that vitamin d deficiency during our pregnancies is a causative factor in many of the issue's we're dealing with - it's very possible that it 'turns on' gene expression for the genetic components of some of these issues. ah. epigenetics? yes, I've heard about this recently. In many other cases, 'mental' illness is no more than insufficient amounts of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and efa's for optimal health - including optimal brain health. That's *clearly* what my anxiety disorder was: insufficient raw materials to keep my brain supplied with the necessary levels of neurotransmitters needed during periods of incredible physical and mental stress. I hear you. Fish oil and vitamin D this winter have made a _huge_ difference in my stress-handling capabilities. I'm looking at a ds who won't put new or green foods in his mouth and trying to think of where to start. Better eating would be great but a supplement(s) may be necessary as a first step. The extra ingredients of phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine & DMAE are what I need to google in the case of the questioned wafers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cillakat Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 The extra ingredients of phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine & DMAE are what I need to google in the case of the questioned wafers.. they phospholipids are wonderful...and there is some good data out there at least on phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylserine. Not any to do with ADHD afaik, but good info wrt cognitive function and memory. The only significant food sources are egg yolks and soy so there are significant populations that don't get enough. I've used DMAE in significant dosages and didn't find any benefit above and beyond what I was already doing (amino acids, vites, minerals, efa's)...also, there are a significant number of cautions to consider with DMAE DMAE info: https://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21390 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 the aspartate sounds like a bad idea (the DMAE too), aspartate - it's an excitotoxin... k, how about this? http://brainchildnutritionals.com/SSII_Ingrediex.html only 40mg DMAE daily... (which "a high dose could produce effects opposite to those sought and contribute to life-shortening.[4]") it's liquid so my ds could drink it, plus they have trial sizes we could try to see if he would even get them down (something many of these pricey "spectrum" supplementers don't do...) It feels kind of awkward to be throwing this question out here but I guess I've gleaned much info from this same area and after the epsom baths and B12 made a noticeable difference, well, you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cillakat Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 the aspartate sounds like a bad idea (the DMAE too), aspartate - it's an excitotoxin... k, how about this?http://brainchildnutritionals.com/SSII_Ingrediex.html six *teaspoons* is the dose to get 15 mg zinc and almost no magnesium..... I'd keep looking. There are lots of yummy (or at least decent) zinc lozenges.....and magnesium will likely be needed at a rate of about 200-800 mg per day depending on weight and individual need. :) Katherine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liz08 Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 I have heard of and seen the Attentive Child supplements, but I honestly don't know enough about them to recommend or not recommend them. A quick look at the ingredients seems to suggest you might be better off supplementing with some of the main ingredients separately. You're already doing the DHA (which is in there), so don't worry about that. And you'd probably do just as well with a cal-mag-zinc supplement in liquid form. The liquid form will help ensure fast and maximum absorption into the body. And make sure that whichever one you choose, it also contains vitamin D in it, which will also help the calcium absorb. The one I use does contain it, and many of them do. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 Sorry - meant to do a new post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishmommy Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 My son takes the attentive child and I think it helps him. He likes the taste and that makes it super easy to get it down him. I've tried other things before that I had to mix into something and he thought it tasted weird, so we went with the wafers. Probably not the best, but better than nuttin'!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishmommy Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 Klaire laboratories produces a very fine powdered flavored supplement for the specific needs of the "spectrum" it is called "Vita Spectrum" and can be ordered from "Wellness Health Pharmacy", I believe that is www.wellnesshealth.com. This is all natural. Klaire Labs produces supplements for very sensitive individuals. I am interested in this, but didn't find what you had listed. Can you help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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