4th Grade Tentative Plans...critique please!

[LoveBaby]

I'm in the thinking about and planning for the next year. My homeschool budget will be in my hands in a few weeks and I'd like to start spending it! LOL

 

MFW Exploring Countries & Cultures for our core studies: Bible, History, Science, Art and Music.

Winter Promise Animals and Their Worlds (heavily modified) to supplement the Science. (This is more for my 2nd and K'er, but my DD *loves* animals, so I thought I'd let her take this on w/ the boys!)

 

R&S or CLE Math (still researching this one...) w/ Singapore EP and CWP for enrichment.

 

Rosetta Stone Spanish (if the budget allows)

 

Prima Latina for Latin studies. I know I could do LC I, but I would like to have my 2nd grader follow along with us. I'd rather go easy and combine this year and move them both into LC I next year.

 

Language Arts is where things get sketchy for me. MFW suggests Intermediate Language Lessons, Spelling Power and Writing Strands. I'm perfectly happy with ILL. Spelling Power and Writing Strands, I'm not so sure. Another thing I need to consider is the time requirement since I'm adding a K'er and will still need to be doing more hands-on w/ my 2nd grader. I would like something that is a bit more independent than teacher intensive. So...I have a couple ideas:

 

ILL

Spelling by Sound and Structure

Writing Tales I

 

*or*

 

CLE LA

Writing Tales I

 

Any suggestions about Language Arts? Teaching writing is beginning to freak me out a little bit! She's doing Reason for Handwriting C this year and is doing beautifully, so I don't really see a need for a seperate handwriting program.

[Guest]

bump. l

[Lovedtodeath]

I just wanted to comment about AW for 4th grade science: I love the God's Design Series and they have one on animals that I plan to use with DD when DS does AW.

The Animal Kingdom: God's Design for Life

 

Writing Tales should work great.

[Tree House Academy]

I am no help...I can tell you what we are using for 4th (it is in my siggy), but other than Singapore (I use the whole program though), we aren't looking a the same things. Best of luck with your planning though...and shopping is always the best!

[Vanna]

I can't say my kids love it... and someone in my family who shall remain nameless :D makes fun of the kids because they can't speak Spanish even though they've been doing RS for years.

 

I'm happy with it though b/c it's accomplishing my goal for them learning Spanish: exposure. I have sought to supplement using Muzzy, videos from the library and letting them watch favorite DVDs in Spanish w/ English subtitles.

 

I hope in the years to come they will have a private tutor, but until that time I feel happy with them having some "immersion" into the language.

 

What else for 4th gr.? Hmmm, I don't remember, but I guess I should start thinking about it too since I'll have one in September.:)

 

All this to say... I support your choice to get RS if finances allow.:iagree:

 

Best wishes!

[LoveBaby]

I just wanted to comment about AW for 4th grade science: I love the God's Design Series and they have one on animals that I plan to use with DD when DS does AW.

The Animal Kingdom: God's Design for Life

 

Writing Tales should work great.

 

 

I like that idea. I'll have to see if I can find a copy. Do you have definite plans of how you are going to incorporate it into AW, yet?

 

My DD lives for animals, so I think she'll really enjoy the extra studies! Otherwise I'd just do ECC science as written.

 

All this to say... I support your choice to get RS if finances allow.

 

That is good to know. I hate to spend that much money and not use it, but we have the demo cd and my DD was already learning french just playing with it. I think she'd do really well with it.

 

 

I picked up a copy of writing strands for a good price and I'm just not that thrilled w/ it at all. Especially seeing it in person. "Read this sentence twice. Read this sentence twice." What in the world is that about? It seems kind of silly. I may have my daughter read through it and see what she thinks though.

[Lovedtodeath]

I do not have any plans on how to incorporate God's Design for Animals with AW. Maybe someone on the WP forums would. Once you have the books in hand, it isn't very hard to add something to the WP IG. The IG that I have is just wonderful.

 

I see you have WT 1 as one of your choices. My plan is to use Writing Tales after FLL 2. It covers quite a bit of grammar. Some of the lesson samples have things in them that don't show up in the Scope & Sequence. It is a really fun program including the grammar games, which is one reason why I am choosing it. At the bottom of this blog you can see the first three days of WT 1 and towards the top there is a review. I really think that you could just add spelling to that and have plenty of LA without adding another grammar program.

 

Spelling really depends on the student. You could take a look at the program for spelling that I am using. It requires a spelling test and flashcards every day, so it is not exactly independent. It is similar to AAS in the method, but is not all put together like AAS. It moves faster (or slower, very tweakable) and is less expensive, which is why I chose it over AAS.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[LoveBaby]

I do not have any plans on how to incorporate God's Design for Animals with AW. Maybe someone on the WP forums would. Once you have the books in hand, it isn't very hard to add something to the WP IG. The IG that I have is just wonderful.

 

I see you have WT 1 as one of your choices. My plan is to use Writing Tales after FLL 2. It covers quite a bit of grammar. Some of the lesson samples have things in them that don't show up in the Scope & Sequence. It is a really fun program including the grammar games, which is one reason why I am choosing it. At the bottom of this blog you can see the first three days of WT 1 and towards the top there is a review. I really think that you could just add spelling to that and have plenty of LA without adding another grammar program.

 

Spelling really depends on the student. You could take a look at the program for spelling that I am using. It requires a spelling test and flashcards every day, so it is not exactly independent. It is similar to AAS in the method, but is not all put together like AAS. It moves faster (or slower, very tweakable) and is less expensive, which is why I chose it over AAS.

 

Thanks for the advice! She tends to shut down if she thinks she can't do something perfectly the first time so we'll start w/ Writing Tales 1. I've got to set her up for success or it goes south very fast!

 

I bought Spelling Power 4th edition used w/ the DVD and it seems a lot more doable then I first thought. I watched the DVD today and I kind of get it now, whereas when I first looked at the book, I thought what?! no way?! If not, I've got the R&S 4th grade spelling sitting on my shelf so we could go with that. It is what we've used for 2nd & 3rd.

 

The amount of curriculum I have sitting on my table right now is embarassing, but I need to be able to see it IRL to know if it will work or not. Thank goodness for the sale boards so I can try things out at a good price and then re-sell if it won't fit our family! I'm glad I bought the copy of Writing Strands though, now I'll feel totally confident in using Writing Tales!

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks for the advice! She tends to shut down if she thinks she can't do something perfectly the first time so we'll start w/ Writing Tales 1. I've got to set her up for success or it goes south very fast!

 

I bought Spelling Power 4th edition used w/ the DVD and it seems a lot more doable then I first thought. I watched the DVD today and I kind of get it now, whereas when I first looked at the book, I thought what?! no way?! If not, I've got the R&S 4th grade spelling sitting on my shelf so we could go with that. It is what we've used for 2nd & 3rd. Glad to hear you have that figured out.

 

The amount of curriculum I have sitting on my table right now is embarassing, but I need to be able to see it IRL to know if it will work or not. I know what you mean. Thank goodness for the sale boards so I can try things out at a good price and then re-sell if it won't fit our family! I'm glad I bought the copy of Writing Strands though, now I'll feel totally confident in using Writing Tales!

Sometimes looking at another curriculum helps in your planning even if you don't use it. That's what I keep doing with Ourlosbanos and WP. I think we will use it, I look at it for a long time, then I decide it is way to much and make my own plan with about 1/3 of the stuff they have. :lol: The AAS samples and discussions have helped me tremendously in implementing HTTS.

 

I had to chime in on this thread b/c LA has been my obsession lately. I have been reading all I can about all of them. I have only looked at 3 spelling programs though. I think that's enough. :001_huh:

 

I thought you might want to go with WT 2, but if WT 1 is too easy you can always put it on the for sale boards and order WT 2. It is like trying on bathing suits. Always try on the biggest size first. If it fits you don't have to go through the humiliation of trying on the suits that are too small. :lol: You might want to know that the creator of WT, Amy, recommends GWG to go along with her program, if you think you want more grammar.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[LoveBaby]

I thought you might want to go with WT 2, but if WT 1 is too easy you can always put it on the for sale boards and order WT 2. It is like trying on bathing suits. Always try on the biggest size first. If it fits you don't have to go through the humiliation of trying on the suits that are too small. :lol:

 

:lol:

 

That is hysterical! And so true!!

 

I know my daughter is probably *capable* of WT 2, but I also know how her mind works and that means, she'll take one look at it and all knowledge will suddenly fly out of her head. Me : "Look at this! Let's write a story!" Her: "A story? What is a story? I've never heard of a story and I don't know how to write one. And why would I want to? And what is writing? I don't know writing!" :tongue_smilie:

 

And, if perchance she totally surprises me, which is possible, then I will hold onto it for my DS when he is in 3rd grade and order WT 2. Mmmm...maybe I'll just be on the prowl for the whole set so we can cover all the possible outcomes! :D

[plimsoll]

Here are my two cents....

 

Rosetta Stone -- overpriced, in my opinion a waste of money. And it teaches no grammar. I bought it for French. We ended up using First Start French from Memoria Press as our main text. We also use a Living Language French Basics combo (cds, dictionary, phrase book) that cost less than 30.00 at Office Depot -- this is roughly equivalent to a basic Berlitz-style set, also available at Office Depot, Staples, etc. I will admit that Rosetta Stone has a great marketing department - they certainly took me in.

 

Writing Strands -- Bought the first volume intending to use it. Was dismayed. Bought the second volume, hoping that maybe the first one was just too elementary. Gave up on it. Currently using CW Aesop and IEW. Would use Writing Tales if I were starting over.

 

Writing Tales - a great choice. Before you buy a lot of other stuff (grammar, vocabulary, spelling, intermediate language lessons, etc.) get Writing Tales and see how much of that other stuff you can do using WT. Then just buy what you need to supplement WT. WT can be used for dictation, narration, vocabulary, grammar, spelling, even handwriting as part of the dictation exercises.

 

Vocabulary -- Are you using a vocabulary program? If so, you can use your vocabulary words for spelling. We're using the Vocabulary in Action series from Loyola Press (we don't do all the exercises -- just the synonyms and antonyms, i.e., learning the words and their definitions.) We also use Roots of English from Memoria Press for additional vocabulary and word roots.

 

Grammar -- If you're studying Latin, you will learn grammar. That being said, we use Daily Grams and Easy Grammar (both at the grade 5 level) because the grammar in CW Aesop (and in Writing Tales) is too easy for my son. If the grammar in WT is the right level for you, then that may be all that you need for grammar.

 

Latin -- We're using Lively Latin and enjoying it. It has a nice mix of Latin, grammar, word roots and history.

 

Spelling Power -- bought it, don't really use it. Between reading extensively and studying Latin, vocabulary, and word roots, my son spells pretty well and does not need a separate spelling program. Occasionally I give him a spelling test based on his vocabulary words. If spelling were a problem, I'd consider using the Phonetic Zoo program from IEW.

 

Math - Last year we went through K-12, Saxon, and Singapore. This year we discovered Life of Fred and are extremely happy with it. Life of Fred starts where arithmetic leaves off -- once your students are comfortable with multiplication and long division, they can start Life of Fred. If we didn't have Life of Fred, we'd be using Singapore.

 

Science - My son has enjoyed using the My Pals Are Here (MPH) Science series, also from Singapore. (FYI, this is a secular science program.)

 

Hope this gives you some food for thought and ideas. Happy shopping!

Edited January 21, 2009 by plimsoll

[plimsoll]

You may also want to look at Spanish for Children from Classical Academic Press. Here's a link: http://www.classicalacademicpress.com/sfc.html

 

Their Latin for Children books are pretty good, so I suspect their Spanish will also be good....

[PeterPan]

LoveBaby, is it possible you're a bit enthused? If it were me, I wouldn't try to do AW *and* MFW ECC. I would focus on ECC and make it work for the K5 and 2nd graders, which you can EASILY do. Instead of doing a separate animals program, I would use GTG, the Trip Around the World books, etc. to cover animals in the countries or biomes you cover in ECC. WT will be great for the 4th grader, and it sounds like WT1 will be a good fit. The grammar in WT2 is more complex and the models are much longer. Better to start with WT1 and speed it up, doing both the rough and final drafts in one week, if it's too easy.

 

Keep it simple and don't make life hard on yourself. Better to take on a little and get it done well than to pull in too many directions. Plan your math and your LA for the 4th grader first, as those are the most important things. 4th gr is really the time to step up the writing and be more consistent there, so you want to plan for that. My dd (4th this year) grew in ways I had not anticipated, changing from a little girl to a young woman. It means the academics and just everything picks up. At the same time, they're more tired because they're growing, meaning you have "other" issues to deal with. I'd take a couple things you like from AW and add them onto ECC, just to simplify. All your dc will enjoy the audio memory geography songs. All your dc will enjoy studying countries. There's no need to do two cores.

 

Oh, for science, the apologia elementary books are good and span the ages well. I'm itching to try the Elements chemistry program somebody linked to around here. I think it would be perfect for my dd and probably littles could tag along no problem.

 

Prima Latina will be fine, but I wouldn't start RS Spanish on top of that. Get one language going before starting the next.

Edited January 20, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[LoveBaby]

LoveBaby, is it possible you're a bit enthused? Keep it simple and don't make life hard on yourself. Better to take on a little and get it done well than to pull in too many directions. quote]

 

Yes, a bit enthused, excited is definitely possible! :lol:

 

My thoughts on our core programs were to use ECC as our base, for all 3 of them, then use the books from AW for our "book basket" for science in ECC. My DD is an idea girl and is forever saying "I know, let's do this." I thought the extra hands-on ideas in AW for the different habitats would help me have something available for her to do. Perhaps w/ her K'er brother while I'm doing 1-1 stuff w/ her 2nd grade brother. If it gets to be too much, though, it will easily be dropped with no regrets!

 

I'm glad you think WT1 would be o.k. I just know if I try to push her too much it will backfire. I'd much rather it go easy and fast and have to order again than push/pull/fight our way through and/or give up on WT2.

 

You know, I'm so torn about RS. Some people love it, other people think it's a waste. If our budget allows, I might try level 1 just to see how it goes. If not, I'll definitely look into some of the others suggested.

 

I had never heard of Lively Latin until this week. I had my mind set on Prima, but now I'm beginning to wonder. What is the easiest to implement? If it's not completely easy to pick-up and go, then I know it won't get done here. I would rather go w/ something that I know will be possible to get done, than something else that's too hard to do and it will just sit on a shelf, KWIM?

 

And I know what you mean about them growing in so many ways! It's been amazing watching her this year already..just turning 9. She's growing in so many different ways!

[Tree House Academy]

I would pick Writing Tales I over Writing Strands any day. We are now doing WT II and LOVE it. It prepares really well for CW Homer which we are doing next year.

[PeterPan]

Jesse, you can do Prima Latina and then go into Lively Latin. We did Prima Latina and then went into LC because that's what our co-op class was using. I DON'T recommend it. It's a fine curriculum, but for the average person who just wants to pick up and go and have all the components there, LL is so much nicer. But LL is really doing the latin. If you want a light year so your youngers can be ready to all go together, then that's fine to do PL first. If your youngers are ready to do LL, then proceed into LL. Doing PL is a good way to get your feet wet with latin, but it's not necessary for going into LL, just an option.

 

I don't know if you caught this in my earlier message, but I wanted to again caution you against beginning two languages at once. To get anywhere with latin, you really have to put in the time to drill the words, etc. It's not a 10 minute commitment. You're looking at more like 20 minutes a day. I would suggest you get one thing up and going before you add in the other. If your latin is going well, you could always order Rosetta Stone and have it to you in a week to start, no need to buy right away. Has she tried the online demo? I would have her try that and see what happens. She might not even like it. If she's a visual learner, RS might not even work for her. http://www.educate.com has free learning styles assessments. I've studied several languages in my day, but Rosetta Stone doesn't work for me at all. I'm a visual learner, so I need a textbook, something I can handle and work with. I also need to see the big picture; learning in bits the way Rosetta Stone presents it doesn't work for me. But that's a learning style thing and will differ with the person. If you're going to take a young dc (which 4th gr is young) and put them in front of it and expect it to happen, you have to have: 1) a very motivated dc, and 2) a good match in learning style. If either of those is off, it's going to flop. Because it's expensive, I would proceed very carefully. Just my advice.

 

You keep going back to Rosetta Stone spanish. Is it possible your heart is in studying a spoken language and you're not really that keen on doing latin right now? Might be heresy, haha, but there's NO NEED to study latin right now. You could wait until she's in 7th grade or high school, do a year or two of a more advanced latin text (Henle, whatever), and be done with it. She'd learn just as much in one year as an older, more mature student, as what she's going to learn in 3 years slogging through Lively Latin, LC, etc. Read the intros and see for yourself! Two years of LL covers one year of high school latin. In other words, you could do a modern language now, with all your dc, and save latin for later. It would make no difference, unless of course she wants to study for the national latin exam or do something at an early age. But even then, she could start in 7th and be at the same point in a short amount of time. I'm just saying that starting when they are little is NOT the only way to do it. I'd do the language your heart is with and not feel guilt-tripped about the other. There is an age window, when they are little, where learning a spoken language is particularly easy and results in better pronounciation. If your heart is with spanish, I'd feel free to pursue it and wait on the latin.

 

I may be way off-base and not applicable there, sorry. Language learning takes time and effort, so it's good to have realistic expectations.

[Lovedtodeath]

Elizabeth had some good points.Foreign Language recommendations in TWTM are to start Latin OR a modern foreign language in 3rd grade, then add the other between 5th and 8th. Both at once is not a good idea. If you want fluency, I think it is best to start the modern foreign language first. TWTM suggests that you start Latin first if you have no native speakers, b/c practicing with native speakers is the only way to get true fluency.

 

As far as ECC and AW together... I know some on the WP boards who did this but stretched it out for 2 years and they were really happy with it this way. My opinion is to get 2-3 spine books (Disney Learning's Our World, The Complete Book of Animals and an Atlas) that will cover zoology and culture and add in a few library books. My dd will not be doing science and history both until 5th, and I will have DS doing only the three R's at that point.

[hsmamainva]

We switched to IEW this year and I am sooooo thrilled!!!

 

I've avoided it for years, because it looked confusing and expensive, but I was soooo tired of having to pull everything together from various sources and nothing seemed to be working.

 

We're using the TWSS (that's the DVD series for me and I've learned so much from it!).

 

My 4th grader is using the SWI - Level B for writing and the Phonetic Zoo - Level A for spelling.

 

We're adding in their grammar program - Fix It Grammar - next year (I didn't want to add too much at one time).

 

I rounded out his language arts program with Handwriting Without Tears' Cursive Success and Sonlight Core 4 readers.

 

It's been a great year!!

[PeterPan]

Lovedtodeath, just as an observation, you may not end up getting to wait on science and history (alternating) till 5th. My dd loves both, so we HAVE to do both. If we don't, she's unhappy. :)

 

I don't recall what WTM says about learning a language, but I would suggest that having access to a native speaker should have very little to do with it. With good materials and enough effort, you can do quite nicely. Young children's brains are still formative and are especially receptive, enabling them to reproduce sounds quite accurately. The older the are, the more that window closes. And one you pass that window, it really doesn't matter a particle if you have a native speaker, because you're still going to sound lousy (till you spend enough time in the country or study the linguistics of the language). Fluency, well that is sort of debatable too. It takes a lot of study, both book study and time speaking the language, to become fluent in a language at an intelligent level. I had a lot of russian before I went over there, but I like to say I spoke like a 3rd grader. So I was fluent, like an 8 yo. ;) In other words, I wouldn't let concerns about fluency or this or that hinder your study. Better to pick the language your heart is in and do it full bore. Something done with heart and soul is better than something done perfunctorily because a book said to.

[Lovedtodeath]

What I mean by doing science and history both is doing a full program for both. Most programs that are available are made for doing both every day and take 2-3 times longer to do than the times recommended in TWTM. ;) In fifth grade the plan is Sea and Sky, which is one program for both.

 

Good point about the language. I am not sure whether we will do Spanish, French or ASL. We definitely do not have our heart into doing Latin. :)

Edited January 21, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[PeterPan]

Well yeah, you can't do a core for each. I'm giving history longer this semester, so science is going down to 3 days a week. Something has to give!

[Donna T.]

I tried to combine ECC and AW. It worked for a while and then became ridiculous. I dropped the ECC and we just did AW. The next year, we started out with ECC and it still wasn't a good fit, so I dropped it again. There are moms who combo. those two programs, but I couldn't do either justice. To pick and choose parts of AW may be a good idea. The One Small Square Books are easy to fit into ECC and then you could choose a couple of the craft books. The books that are suggested in the ECC book list are on the "young side" in my opinion. I think you'll find lots of titles in there that your 2nd and Ker would like. There are many picture books in the list. The activities are also appropriate for young children.

 

Rosetta Stone Spanish is not worth the price, in my opinion. We have it, we use it, but we don't love it. I've dropped Spanish formally all together. RS was a fun novelty for us at first (I guess because it gives them computer time). But, if I pick it back up again, I'll get Spanish for Children by Classical Academic Press. I see us using Rosetta Stone as a supplement, but I don't know that it would really work for my oldest son - he needs a very systematic approach to just about everything. My first grader has picked up quite a bit of Spanish from Rosetta Stone but it wasn't a good fit for my oldest.

 

We use Spelling Power and love it. We have also used two years of Spelling by Sound and Structure. I liked it, too. It did become tedious and we switched to Spelling Power. My son enjoys Spelling Power, so we're sticking with that. Spelling Power can be used independently but only to a point. I still work closely with my son but I imagine he'll do it almost completely independently when he's a little older. I still like to sit with him and remind him of the steps. Spelling by Sound and Structure works well for independent work. Even at the second grade level, he used it mostly independently.

 

Tried ILL for awhile. I like it but went back to First Language Lessons because I wanted more grammar since I knew my son would be starting Greek soon. I do like it though. I just prefer FLL. Neither are conducive to independent work though. Maybe ILL a bit if you have a strong student who likes to write.

 

I ordered and returned Writing Tales. Finally figured out that FLL is really the best fit for us, so I didn't want to duplicate all the grammar and found something I like better for writing.

 

We tried Prima Latina and it was just too dry. But, I know it's a good product and lots of moms love it. I'm really impressed with Classical Academic Press's materials and I think we would have gotten further in Latin if I had started with Latin for Children instead of Prima Latina. But, I'm sure that is just me and your experience may be different.

 

I think all of your choices look good.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Donna T.

[LoveBaby]

Thanks for your input, mamas!

 

I'm glad to hear that some love Spelling Power. I'm glad we're not starting it until fall, so I have time to get my head around it. I watched part of the video though and feel a lot more comfortable using it.

 

I have the IG for Animal Worlds, but really had just planned to us it for the websites and the books from AW as book basket books and ideas for my DD to do crafts. There is no way I could complete 2 cores, plus use MFW-K for my little guy!!

 

Spanish is for my children to get ahead in today's world. I just feel like they will be that much ahead if they get a good grasp of the language. I took 4 years of French in high school and *loved* it. I would teach them french in a heart beat, but I'm not sure it's that practical, KWIM?

 

The reason I want to teach Latin is because I want to learn it, and thought it would be more fun to learn along w/ my children than by a grown up version! LOL

 

I ordered Writing Tales the other day. I'm really looking forward to receiving it. I had planned on waiting until fall to get it, but my DD has decided she wants to write her autobiography, so we're going to jump on the interest and get started now! She wants to publish it, too, and thinks it will be so cool when people ask her to sign her book!

Edited January 23, 2009 by LoveBaby