4kids4me Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 My dd, 11, is a pretty good natural writer. We're slowly going through IEW's SWI (we've stalled b/c I didn't do it with her and now I'm feeling like I should catch up so I can help teach!), and she doesn't find it difficult. We haven't done outlining, though. Every time I pull out WTM and KHE to show her, it's SUCH A BIG DEAL (meaning tears, etc.). She just hates it. I've often heard that it's partly b/c KHE is go succinct. My problem is I'm just not sure what to use if I don't use it. I'm terrible with figuring out what to do. I'm feeling so discouraged. I just know I'm holding dd back in the area of writing. She's so naturally smart, and a naturally good writer (more in the creative area), that I'm doing her a disservice, but don't know where to start (sit myself infront of TWSS, which I have, but haven't done?). Encouraging words and words of wisdom would really be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimber Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Maybe science? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 My 10 year old had done the SWIA and the SWICC, personally I think the Kingfisher is fine as a HS text, just not for Upper Elementary. I find, trying to have a child outline from texts, only really works,l if the text is on or below their grade level. This way they can make it better by changing verbs and adjectives as well as applying sentence openers. But, starting with a text that has exceeded the writing ability of the child does not lend itself well for writing. Thus, the child feels their outline/paragraph is worse than that of the book. My goal it to have her ALWAYS make the paragraph better, more interesting , engaging so I really did not find the KF to be the book for us. I really like Oxfords Children s History of the World This is a thinner book(less threatening) and it allows her to make the paragraph she is outlining, much improved. She has recently asked for another source (on her own) to add facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Well, It could depend on what edition of Kingfisher you have. I just purchased the white edition (1993) and am finding it much more user friendly in regards to outlining than the newer red ed. I think it also depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the outlining. Right now all I am trying to accomplish is for my son to pick out the main ideas in paragraphs. I have no plans as of yet for him to rewrite these paragraphs. I have to confess that just finding and deciding on the main idea of a paragraph is rather daunting for my ds. If I were to also ask him to rewrite them at this juncture would probably bring on tears of frustration. So, for now, I will stick with Writing Tales 2 for our story rewrites and use outlining for learning note-taking techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb in NZ Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 science, starting with Apologia's General Science. JMHO, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I think pretty much anything. But it doesnt have to be a big amount of info she outlines. I started with short chapters- about a page of medium sized print- in an Australian history book I have. Even my reluctant writer didn't get upset by it. But IEW teaches a form of outlining anyway...so you could use their way and just pick a short page of history or science and use that. On the WTM website, they now recommend a new outlining book for those struggling to teach/learn outlining. It is outlining lessons based on history, and it is downloadable and I think it is good- I bought it- but I havent started using it yet. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/J00outlining.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terri NS Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 We are outlining using Kingfisher Science Encyclopedia. My kids like science topics a lot and so although they find it difficult, it's not boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) We haven't done outlining, though. Every time I pull out WTM and KHE to show her, it's SUCH A BIG DEAL (meaning tears, etc.). She just hates it. I've often heard that it's partly b/c KHE is go succinct. My problem is I'm just not sure what to use if I don't use it. I'm terrible with figuring out what to do. I'm feeling so discouraged. I just know I'm holding dd back in the area of writing. She's so naturally smart, and a naturally good writer (more in the creative area), that I'm doing her a disservice, but don't know where to start (sit myself infront of TWSS, which I have, but haven't done?). Encouraging words and words of wisdom would really be appreciated. I have ds read a few pages in KHE, then pick a topic/event/person of interest. Then I have him go look up THAT item in World Book/library books/books we have at home and read about it, and outline from this instead of KHE. I pick out a section of about 5 paragraphs and help him write a one level outline. This is enough for this year - I have found it NOT easy to teach!! We use KHE, but not for the outlining part. We practice simple outlining on interesting reading. Next year we'll try 2 level outlining (and maybe rewriting, but I'll have to wait and see how things go). :grouphug: Edited January 7, 2009 by Colleen in NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inashoe Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Outlining...if I don't use KHE, then what? Now that is the question ! We have been asking that on this board repeatedly. In fact, even SWB joined in and asked us :001_huh: (but that is because KHE is going OOP ) Is this her first year of doing outlining ? the kids do seem to find outlining difficult at first. WTM recommends to only do One level outlining initially. In other words, write one phrase or sentence summarizing the main point of a paragraph. Or you could do it the IEW way and only write three words for the main point of the paragraph. Also, IEW recommends that initially you tell the child what those three words are, he calls it "modelling" so you show your child what the three key words are, thus helping her to learn how to outline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kids4me Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Lots of different responses and help. I guess we'll just plug away. I think this whole "writing" thing is going to kill me, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I think this whole "writing" thing is going to kill me, though. :lol::lol::lol::lol: Ditto here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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