AOPS Online vs. AOPS Academy?

[OnceUponAFullMoon]

48 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Is he re-reading the relevant transcripts and sections?

In classes where I’m very engaged with the message board, I’d have very long exchanges with the kids, but I certainly wouldn’t spoon feed them by pointing to specific sections to re-read. Knowing what tool is relevant is part of learning the math.

It's a long transcript. It wouldn't be too unreasonable to point him to a specific section to re-read, especially those are Alcumus and not challenging problems. It's not the same as telling him what specific tool or strategy to use.

 

1 hour ago, daijobu said:

Parents call me for just this reason.  😉  I've seen discussion board threads about the writing problems that were a nightmare to parse.  Multiple students posting to the same thread along with multiple TAs responding.  Sometimes variables get changed in the process leading to more confusion, not less. Students post their solutions only to be redacted later.  

I think a lot of the TA hints are scripts as well, so I don't think the responses are very personal.  

I do exactly what you describe.  I remind the students of what they learned that week.  "Lecture this week was about similar triangles.  Do you think similar triangles might be helpful here?" 

I know the transcript is available, but for younger students it can be a big ask to get them to reread the transcript.  So I'll sometimes review the transcript with the student, or just make up my own practice problems.   

I agree I think using the textbook is a better option for most students.  

Are you a tutor lol? I was thinking of having a tutor to work with my kid using the book before, but not sure if it'll be more expensive than the online course.

[Not_a_Number]

35 minutes ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said:

It's a long transcript. It wouldn't be too unreasonable to point him to a specific section to re-read, especially those are Alcumus and not challenging problems. It's not the same as telling him what specific tool or strategy to use.

I don’t know. I know that I try to be as helpful as possible to kids on the message boards, and it would not occur to me to tell a kid which section to read over.

If a student is having trouble with a concept in a given section, chances are they could really use a review of the whole thing. The danger with pointing to specific tools is that the holistic view doesn’t get absorbed.

Could you give me an example of a problem he was stuck on and the unhelpful help he got, though? Because I’ve definitely seen TAs try to “help” on autopilot, which is no good.

[OnceUponAFullMoon]

13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don’t know. I know that I try to be as helpful as possible to kids on the message boards, and it would not occur to me to tell a kid which section to read over.

If a student is having trouble with a concept in a given section, chances are they could really use a review of the whole thing. The danger with pointing to specific tools is that the holistic view doesn’t get absorbed.

Could you give me an example of a problem he was stuck on and the unhelpful help he got, though? Because I’ve definitely seen TAs try to “help” on autopilot, which is no good.

It's sorta hard to tell my easily-frustrated and perfection kid to go re-read the entire 20 page chapter plus 1.5hr transcript 😅. Also some concepts are from previous chapters that he forgets. 

An example would be a problem about a parabola intersecting a line. That concept was introduced 6 chapters prior. They replied by asking him what he thought it meant. They probably hoped to see him figure out that the x value on parabola is the same as the x value on the linear. He didn't, so it was better off at that point to just point him to lesson 1 of the earlier chapter, unless they wanted to briefly went over the concept with him there. 

With that problem, I eventually had him graph the two functions on Geogebra and asked him the same question the TA did, then he got it. 

[Not_a_Number]

8 hours ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said:

It's sorta hard to tell my easily-frustrated and perfection kid to go re-read the entire 20 page chapter plus 1.5hr transcript 😅. Also some concepts are from previous chapters that he forgets. 

Hah, I don't tell them to reread the chapters, just the transcript. By definition, all the necessary concepts are in there. 

 

8 hours ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said:

An example would be a problem about a parabola intersecting a line. That concept was introduced 6 chapters prior. They replied by asking him what he thought it meant. They probably hoped to see him figure out that the x value on parabola is the same as the x value on the linear. He didn't, so it was better off at that point to just point him to lesson 1 of the earlier chapter, unless they wanted to briefly went over the concept with him there. 

With that problem, I eventually had him graph the two functions on Geogebra and asked him the same question the TA did, then he got it. 

I'd probably briefly go over that concept with a kid, yeah. It's a tricky concept for a lot of kids. 

[daijobu]

14 hours ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said:

It's a long transcript. It wouldn't be too unreasonable to point him to a specific section to re-read, especially those are Alcumus and not challenging problems. It's not the same as telling him what specific tool or strategy to use.

 

Are you a tutor lol? I was thinking of having a tutor to work with my kid using the book before, but not sure if it'll be more expensive than the online course.

Yes, I'm a tutor, and so many students fit your son's description, I think AoPS has created a little niche for me.  I'm like a human discussion board, but I answer questions in real time, and with a sense of humor thrown in.  

I also model skills like organized and clear mathematical writing.  I help newbie students gets started with LaTex.  In the example you provided with the line and parabola, if we find an  solution or two, then before we enter the solution, I suggest we check it against the two original equations to show that it satisfies both.  This last step serves 2 purposes: (1) Reminding us after all that algebra, of what we are actually trying to solve and why and what the geometric interpretation might be, and (2) reinforcing the importance of checking our work.

I also conspicuously cross my fingers whenever a student enters her answer and clicks Submit.  You can't be too careful when homework points are on the line.  

If it helps, the reading assignments are at the top of the weekly homework:

I think the most committed students actually work through the textbook before lecture.  They do all the problems and exercises, which enables them to participate more easily, and polish off the online homework.  If it sounds like overkill, my daughters only did the textbook problems, and didn't do the AoPS online classes.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, daijobu said:

I think the most committed students actually work through the textbook before lecture.  They do all the problems and exercises, which enables them to participate more easily, and polish off the online homework.  If it sounds like overkill, my daughters only did the textbook problems, and didn't do the AoPS online classes.  

Yes, I think some kids do that. I know that if I had taken AoPS classes, though, I would have never done that, LOL. 

[daijobu]

13 hours ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said:

It's sorta hard to tell my easily-frustrated and perfection kid to go re-read the entire 20 page chapter plus 1.5hr transcript 😅. Also some concepts are from previous chapters that he forgets. 

 

I also don't enjoy reading the transcripts.  Part of it is I don't like to read long things online, and I wonder too if it may be easier if it were in 2 column format, I don't know.  Just FYI, it won't take 1.5 hours to reread, lol, and turning off the student contributions makes it a bit easier, but not by much.  

[SeaConquest]

We have the same issue here. I always tell my DS to go ask on the message board, but he has never gotten anything useful, or so he says. I also tell him to re-read the transcript, but again, a big ask for an ADHD kid. He does seem to forget concepts that were from weeks prior because the class does move quickly and it's just hard to retain information when it's going quickly and you have so few practice problems. I've always been torn about what to do there, but honestly, the AoPS Online class actually gave more work than the in-person classes because there were no writing problems and no Alcumus required in our in-person classes, which is why we switched. Plus, the in-person classes had exams that stressed him out. He's not a fast worker. So, I don't think you are better off in the Academy classes. JMHO.

So, now he emails questions to a very kind boardie and she's been graciously helping him. I am just no longer able to keep up with his math level. My knowledge of math was simply too superficial to handle AoPS math at this level.   

Edited October 10, 2021 by SeaConquest

[OnceUponAFullMoon]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:52 PM, SeaConquest said:

I am just no longer able to keep up with his math level.

I am trying to study it alongside with him. I want to help him learn how to question and do follow-up questions too. It's his first AOPS class but he studied BA 2-5 and the previous AOPS books by himself before. I don't know how long I can keep this up (my head hurts after a 2-hour class last night lol.) But I hope by then, he can be on his own. 

 

On 10/9/2021 at 1:18 PM, daijobu said:

Just FYI, it won't take 1.5 hours to reread

Right. I still feel for re-reading purpose, the book is better. 

On 10/9/2021 at 8:36 AM, Not_a_Number said:

I'd probably briefly go over that concept with a kid, yeah. It's a tricky concept for a lot of kids. 

Would you mind to share your AOPS username via private message? I can share my son's. 

I currently have to sit next to him asking if he understands the reply, if not, what is it that he doesn't so he can ask the follow-up question. Maybe after many modeling, he'll can do it by himself one day.