Using Beast Academy as a supplement - only the practice books 2A-D

[R828]

Has anyone used Beast academy with only the practice books and not the guide books? I'm considering 2A-D for an advanced 6 year old, currently breezing through Rightstart D. I want to slow her down and encourage her to focus on problem solving and building the perseverence to work on math that isn't super easy for her.  She's been solid on place value, addition and subtraction for a while now, so I'm guessing we won't need the explicit teaching from the guide books but will still benefit from the puzzles in the practice books.

Is this a good idea? I'm leaning towards BA because I think eventually we might switch to BA as our main curriculum, probably after we finish RS D and E (which I already own). I also have all the grades of Math Mammoth, but it doesn't seem to have the kind of puzzles and problem solving I'm looking for. But if there is a way to make Math Mammoth work for our needs, I'm all ears. Or should I supplement with something like Singapore CWP or Ed Zaccaro - which have the benefit of being much less expensive? (Cost is a factor here - I've already spent way to much on Math this year.)

I'd really appreciate any advice! Thank you!

Edited January 6, 2021 by R828

[caffeineandbooks]

We use Singapore in elementary and also have the Beast level 2 books.  I currently have kids in Singapore 3A and 5A, and they dip in and out of Beast for extra practice or sometimes to catch a concept they missed the first time around.  Obviously the challenge level is greater for the kid in 3A, but there's enough meat there to make them both think hard, and me too sometimes!  The problems in Beast emphasize thinking skills and de-emphasize manipulatives.  The practice books clearly explain how to solve the problems, and I think they'd work without the guides for a kid who's familiar with the concepts.  Another option for you could be the newer puzzle books - there's currently a single second grade one and a single third grade one, and they are stand alone books.

One last option to throw in the pot - you might like to check out some of the free activities at youcubed.org, particularly their "Week of Inspirational Math" sections.  These emphasize mathematical reasoning, thinking deeply about the why, and persevering with an idea until you discover the pattern in it.  They suit a broad range of abilities and are especially great if you have a group to work with, but are good one on one as well.  If your main goal is to slow your son down and help him enjoy diving into an idea and exploring it for a length of time, there might be some 

[Not_a_Number]

3 hours ago, R828 said:

Has anyone used Beast academy with only the practice books and not the guide books? I'm considering 2A-D for an advanced 6 year old, currently breezing through Rightstart D. I want to slow her down and encourage her to focus on problem solving and building the perseverence to work on math that isn't super easy for her.  She's been solid on place value, addition and subtraction for a while now, so I'm guessing we won't need the explicit teaching from the guide books but will still benefit from the puzzles in the practice books.

Is this a good idea? I'm leaning towards BA because I think eventually we might switch to BA as our main curriculum, probably after we finish RS D and E (which I already own). I also have all the grades of Math Mammoth, but it doesn't seem to have the kind of puzzles and problem solving I'm looking for. But if there is a way to make Math Mammoth work for our needs, I'm all ears. Or should I supplement with something like Singapore CWP or Ed Zaccaro - which have the benefit of being much less expensive? (Cost is a factor here - I've already spent way to much on Math this year.)

I'd really appreciate any advice! Thank you!

The guide books are fun, though 🙂 . DD8 reads them for fun. 

I'd also encourage you to move forward at your child's pace. A 6 year old can absolutely move into the next topics -- they don't need to be slowed down. A more challenging curriculum sounds like a good idea, but you don't need to stay put on addition, subtraction and place value until she's "old enough" for multiplication and division 😉 . 

[R828]

51 minutes ago, caffeineandbooks said:

We use Singapore in elementary and also have the Beast level 2 books.  I currently have kids in Singapore 3A and 5A, and they dip in and out of Beast for extra practice or sometimes to catch a concept they missed the first time around.  Obviously the challenge level is greater for the kid in 3A, but there's enough meat there to make them both think hard, and me too sometimes!  The problems in Beast emphasize thinking skills and de-emphasize manipulatives.  The practice books clearly explain how to solve the problems, and I think they'd work without the guides for a kid who's familiar with the concepts.  Another option for you could be the newer puzzle books - there's currently a single second grade one and a single third grade one, and they are stand alone books.

One last option to throw in the pot - you might like to check out some of the free activities at youcubed.org, particularly their "Week of Inspirational Math" sections.  These emphasize mathematical reasoning, thinking deeply about the why, and persevering with an idea until you discover the pattern in it.  They suit a broad range of abilities and are especially great if you have a group to work with, but are good one on one as well.  If your main goal is to slow your son down and help him enjoy diving into an idea and exploring it for a length of time, there might be some 

I didn’t know about the new BA puzzle books! That might be just what we need. And I’m definitely checking out youcubed.org. Thank you!!

[R828]

45 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The guide books are fun, though 🙂 . DD8 reads them for fun. 

I'd also encourage you to move forward at your child's pace. A 6 year old can absolutely move into the next topics -- they don't need to be slowed down. A more challenging curriculum sounds like a good idea, but you don't need to stay put on addition, subtraction and place value until she's "old enough" for multiplication and division 😉 . 

They do look like fun and dd is an avid reader so I’m pretty sure she’ll like the guides. I’m really just trying to resist buying another whole math curriculum. But going by my track record, I may just give in and buy them all. 😂 I already have Rightstart A to F (granted I bought these used for a super low price), math mammoth grades 1 to 6 download and the whole of the Good and the Beautiful math too! TGTB was 75% off last month and I couldn’t resist. I’m a sucker for pretty stuff and TGTB is pretty if nothing else. Lol. I figured I can use it, especially the manipulatives, while tutoring....you know, once COVID ends, if it ever does. 🙄

 

And no, I’m not trying to hold her back in any way, she’s pretty much mastered multiplication too, we are just working on speed and instant recall of the tables now. Most things come pretty easy to her, so I just worry about her expecting everything to always be easy. She has a pretty low level of tolerance for frustration in general but it seems worse with regards to math. She really doesn’t want to be challenged or to think deeply about a problem and puzzle out a solution. That’s what I’m hoping to remedy. I think in the long term that is going to be really important. I appreciate the advice though! And if you have the time I’d love a few more of the math crosswords! I’ve been kicking myself for not downloading them all before all those threads got deleted. No hurry though. DD loved those! 

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, R828 said:

And no, I’m not trying to hold her back in any way, she’s pretty much mastered multiplication too, we are just working on speed and instant recall of the tables now. Most things come pretty easy to her, so I just worry about her expecting everything to always be easy. She has a pretty low level of tolerance for frustration in general but it seems worse with regards to math. She really doesn’t want to be challenged or to think deeply about a problem and puzzle out a solution. That’s what I’m hoping to remedy. I think in the long term that is going to be really important. I appreciate the advice though! And if you have the time I’d love a few more of the math crosswords! I’ve been kicking myself for not downloading them all before all those threads got deleted. No hurry though. DD loved those! 

Ooooh, right! I knew I remembered your username from somewhere 😂. I see it was from the crossword thread. 

I'll start that thread again! I'm very happy to make as many math crosswords as anyone could want -- I've been making them every week for my Zoom math class 🙂 . Sorry that thread disappeared with the grand renaming! 

My experience with my very accelerated 8 year old was that while it was a good idea to work on frustration tolerance, it also does vastly improve with age, so don't worry that at 6 it's not there yet. For working on that, I really recommend going off the beaten track and doing something like math contests. Have you looked at the Math Kangaroo? 

[R828]

That’s awesome, thank you! I’d love a few with up to 12x12 multiplication/division, multi digit addition and subtraction.

Quote

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

My experience with my very accelerated 8 year old was that while it was a good idea to work on frustration tolerance, it also does vastly improve with age, so don't worry that at 6 it's not there yet.

 

That’s a good reminder, she is only 6. 🙂 We’ve worked on most of the previous years’ math kangaroo problems, though some of them were way above her level when we did them a few months ago. We should try them again. I’m not sure that she is ready for the actual math contests though. She tends to be a perfectionist and she freezes up when anything is timed. But it’s on my radar for the future. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, R828 said:

That’s awesome, thank you! I’d love a few with up to 12x12 multiplication/division, multi digit addition and subtraction.

That’s a good reminder, she is only 6. 🙂 We’ve worked on most of the previous years’ math kangaroo problems, though some of them were way above her level when we did them a few months ago. We should try them again. I’m not sure that she is ready for the actual math contests though. She tends to be a perfectionist and she freezes up when anything is timed. But it’s on my radar for the future. 

Yeah, DD8 is also a perfectionist, but we actually found timed practices without ANY help really liberating, and they also increased her independence. 

I really recommend doing some of the harder Math Kangaroo questions and letting her spin and get confused for a while 😉 . As you say, it's an unpleasant feeling, but it can be REALLY encouraging if you try something random and it actually... works out. The way to go through that is to let her start the question, then help her move forward through it using her ideas (even if they aren't maximally efficient!), as opposed to following the official solution. (Of course, that requires really studying the question ahead of time to make sure you can brainstorm together.) 

I do think Beast would be a good match for you if the issue you're having is that math seems to be too easy and your DD is unused to having to stop and think. It's a great curriculum for that. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[R828]

Wow you reply fast! That’s great advice, thank you! It’s what I try to do though it is hard sometimes to resist asking leading questions and to just let her struggle through. 
 

I know you don’t use curricula for math, but I was wondering do you know of or have you made a list of topics to cover, sort of like a math progression checklist? 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by R828

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, R828 said:

Wow you reply fast! That’s great advice, thank you! It’s what I try to do though it is hard sometimes to resist asking leading questions and to just let her struggle through. 

I reply fast if I'm already on my computer, lol. Which I am during my AoPS classes, and usually also right after. 

 

8 minutes ago, R828 said:

I know you don’t use curricula for math, but I was wondering do you know of or have you made a list of topics to cover, sort of like a math progression checklist? 

Hmmmm. Yes, I have one in my head somewhere, but I've never written it down. Last time I tried to write it down, it turned vast and sprawling amazingly quickly. 

Would you like me to make another attempt? I don't think I organize it the way textbooks do.

[R828]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Would you like me to make another attempt? I don't think I organize it the way textbooks do.

I’d love to see it if you manage to get it down. I think I’d actually prefer vast and sprawling! Lol. Seriously though, I think a lot of people would find it really helpful. 🙂
 

[smfmommy]

If you just want to supplement I would do the Guide Books and the new puzzle books.  There is grade 2 and 3 out right now.

All the teaching is in the guide books.

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, smfmommy said:

If you just want to supplement I would do the Guide Books and the new puzzle books.  There is grade 2 and 3 out right now.

All the teaching is in the guide books.

 

Yes, the teaching is definitely in the Guide Books 🙂 . However, if I remember correctly, if a child could do place value and addition/subtraction, then then 2A to 2D ought to be relatively approachable. (I don't remember if there are bits you'd be missing, though, since I didn't use it that much -- just sporadically.) 

[Not_a_Number]

27 minutes ago, R828 said:

I’d love to see it if you manage to get it down. I think I’d actually prefer vast and sprawling! Lol. Seriously though, I think a lot of people would find it really helpful. 🙂
 

I don't know about "a lot of people," but I'll do my best! Maybe not right now, though... I have a bit of a work crunch. 

[Cake and Pi]

My math-lover did BA alongside RS around that age. The two curriculums complement each other very nicely. Each has some topics and approaches only found in one and not the other, and I was infinitely glad that we covered multiplication with RS before hitting the topic in BA, where they did a fairly lackluster job on foundational stuff but expanded on the basics masterfully. We did pretty much match the levels straight across. He did BA 3 alongside RS D and BA 4 with RS E.

Also, yeah, no, *don't* skip the guides. They are too fun to skip! I always read them aloud with special voices for the characters. 

Anyway, I wanted to comment on placement. If your kiddo is in RS D, BA 2 may be less than exciting for her. My DS#3 did BA 3A after completing RS A through C (in 1st edition, so kind of like RS A through the first 1/3ish of D in 2nd edition -- probably pretty similar to where your DD is at right now), and BA 3A was pretty easy for him at that point. Took him a bit less than a month to complete 3A. BA 2 was still in production at that time. He did ALL of BA 2A in about a week. BA 2B was released a few months later, and I bought it not wanting to skip anything. Shortly after I gave it to him, he handed it back to me announcing that it was "tooooooooooo easy." Each kid is an individual, though, and you know yours best. I'd at least offer her the placement tests first before investing in a whole level if you want to keep math costs down. We spend entirely too much on math in my house!

Just for extra math funness, my DS also did the Algebra Lab Gear Beginning Algebra book with the blocks around the same-ish time he was starting BA 3. Algebra Lab Gear seems to be basically unknown in the homeschooling world, but we really, really liked that problems with two variables and three dimensions could be reasoned out with blocks.

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, Cake and Pi said:

Each has some topics and approaches only found in one and not the other, and I was infinitely glad that we covered multiplication with RS before hitting the topic in BA, where they did a fairly lackluster job on foundational stuff but expanded on the basics masterfully.

What does RS do for multiplication, if you don’t mind me asking? 🙂 

[Clemsondana]

I don't have opinions on what to use as a supplement - my own kids preferred to just move faster rather than use 2 programs in elementary.  Once they hit pre-A, they like using Life of Fred as a different way to look at math alongside their regular program (AoPS for one kid, Arbor Press for the other).  But, I thought it worth mentioning that you probably don't need to work on frustration tolerance for a 6 year old by adding more challenge.  They might need more challenge just so that they are learning something, and you could move more quickly or add supplements to achieve that.  But, frustration will come at some point as the material gets more difficult, if not in math, then in something else. 

It's a tricky thing to manage for advanced kids.  One of mine went from liking math fine and being quite advanced to hating it because the 'great challenging program' that we were encouraged to use was frustrating and kid didn't want to be frustrated every day.  We ended up taking time off and doing something else for a while.  Kid is now doing a great job and finds parts of math fun again, but it took a few years and some detours.  For mine, frustration tolerance seemed to be a function of age, frequency, and number of things in their life that were frustrating (a frustrating math problem, learning to write essays, and a challenging music piece in one day?  Recipe for disaster!).  

[R828]

12 hours ago, Cake and Pi said:

My math-lover did BA alongside RS around that age. The two curriculums complement each other very nicely. Each has some topics and approaches only found in one and not the other, and I was infinitely glad that we covered multiplication with RS before hitting the topic in BA, where they did a fairly lackluster job on foundational stuff but expanded on the basics masterfully. We did pretty much match the levels straight across. He did BA 3 alongside RS D and BA 4 with RS E.

Also, yeah, no, *don't* skip the guides. They are too fun to skip! I always read them aloud with special voices for the characters. 

Anyway, I wanted to comment on placement. If your kiddo is in RS D, BA 2 may be less than exciting for her. My DS#3 did BA 3A after completing RS A through C (in 1st edition, so kind of like RS A through the first 1/3ish of D in 2nd edition -- probably pretty similar to where your DD is at right now), and BA 3A was pretty easy for him at that point. Took him a bit less than a month to complete 3A. BA 2 was still in production at that time. He did ALL of BA 2A in about a week. BA 2B was released a few months later, and I bought it not wanting to skip anything. Shortly after I gave it to him, he handed it back to me announcing that it was "tooooooooooo easy." Each kid is an individual, though, and you know yours best. I'd at least offer her the placement tests first before investing in a whole level if you want to keep math costs down. We spend entirely too much on math in my house!

Just for extra math funness, my DS also did the Algebra Lab Gear Beginning Algebra book with the blocks around the same-ish time he was starting BA 3. Algebra Lab Gear seems to be basically unknown in the homeschooling world, but we really, really liked that problems with two variables and three dimensions could be reasoned out with blocks.

It’s nice to hear from someone who has done RS too! I was considering BA 3 but don’t want to make it too hard for her either. I just want her to get used to spending a few minutes thinking through a problem. RS has given her a great foundation and conceptual understanding but I think it’s a little lacking in encouraging problem solving. But I’ll definitely have her take the BA placement test and decide based on that. Thank you!! 
 

Algebra lab gear looks great! Thanks for putting it on my radar. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

One of mine went from liking math fine and being quite advanced to hating it because the 'great challenging program' that we were encouraged to use was frustrating and kid didn't want to be frustrated every day. 

Yeah, "frustrated every day" wouldn't have worked for us at age 6. However, practicing dealing with SOME frustration was helpful. Not every day, though... definitely not. 

On the other hand, open-ended problems that required experimentation were a really good idea even at age 6. They weren't that frustrating, because we had approaches to them, but they weren't immediate, either. Like the crosswords... they are a good middle ground. 

[R828]

5 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

I don't have opinions on what to use as a supplement - my own kids preferred to just move faster rather than use 2 programs in elementary.  Once they hit pre-A, they like using Life of Fred as a different way to look at math alongside their regular program (AoPS for one kid, Arbor Press for the other).  But, I thought it worth mentioning that you probably don't need to work on frustration tolerance for a 6 year old by adding more challenge.  They might need more challenge just so that they are learning something, and you could move more quickly or add supplements to achieve that.  But, frustration will come at some point as the material gets more difficult, if not in math, then in something else. 

It's a tricky thing to manage for advanced kids.  One of mine went from liking math fine and being quite advanced to hating it because the 'great challenging program' that we were encouraged to use was frustrating and kid didn't want to be frustrated every day.  We ended up taking time off and doing something else for a while.  Kid is now doing a great job and finds parts of math fun again, but it took a few years and some detours.  For mine, frustration tolerance seemed to be a function of age, frequency, and number of things in their life that were frustrating (a frustrating math problem, learning to write essays, and a challenging music piece in one day?  Recipe for disaster!).  

Hmmm....we’ve only really used one program so far (RS) though I have given her MM worksheets to work on when I needed to take break from active homeschooling. And while she is doing great with Rightstart, she almost never has to think through a question. That’s why I was thinking we needed something to work on problem solving. I hear you on the frustration tolerance though. She is only 6. She’s not been frustrated by math so far and really loves it....I see it more with piano. She expects to be able to play everything perfectly the first time she tries. 
 

I really appreciate you sharing your son’s experience. That’s definitely what I want to avoid...that’s why I was leaning toward BA2 vs 3. So she is getting just a little bit of a challenge but not too much. It is really tricky!! Thank you for helping me try to figure it out!

Edited January 7, 2021 by R828

[R828]

24 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, "frustrated every day" wouldn't have worked for us at age 6. However, practicing dealing with SOME frustration was helpful. Not every day, though... definitely not. 

On the other hand, open-ended problems that required experimentation were a really good idea even at age 6. They weren't that frustrating, because we had approaches to them, but they weren't immediate, either. Like the crosswords... they are a good middle ground. 

Noooo frustrated everyday is NOT what I want either. Totally agree with what you said. It is tricky trying to find that middle ground though! This is where we get to hone our problem solving skills! 😉

[Clemsondana]

I don't know what grade they start, but you might consider Singapore Math's Challenging Word Problems.  We did those sometimes when we were doing elementary math.  You might also like Balance Benders workbooks from the Critical Thinking Company - they may have other things, too - we've used other products of theirs but those are the only math ones we used.