Spelling

[countrymum]

I am stuck with spelling with ds 8 almost 9. We did AAS 1-3. It did not seem to help his spelling at all. Then we did most of Rod and Staff spelling 2 (misses 2-10 out of 12 each week-normally 3-5.) this year. His reading took off and so did his writing at the end of last year, so I have increased his reading and writing also this year. Currently, he is reading Farmer Boy and Silver for George Washington  and doing lots of copywork and writing with me spelling it for him.  His spelling has perhaps improved a tiny bit this year. He can spell cvc words and a very few sight words. I think this is more due to copywork than our spelling.

For next year:

I have Traditional Spelling 1 from Memoria Press (perhaps add in more OG style phonogram drill)

Go back to AAS (when did experienced users see improvement)

Make my own with my language toolkit from EPS and my notes from the Orton Gillingham training I took?

Try How to teach Spelling from EPS   https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/002898/How-to-Teach-Spelling.html?trackcode=googleBase&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp002898&sc_intid=002898&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlI6_ppWs6QIVAz6tBh2wBgBiEAQYASABEgIxavD_BwE

I am a firm believer in OG for reading for any dyslexic student. It is what I used to teach ds to read. He knows all the phonograms. I am not as sure about spelling though. (Also he may or may not have dislexia. He does have spelling trouble though. Little sis spells better.)

Edited May 11, 2020 by countrymum
More info

[8filltheheart]

I have 3 dyslexic kids with varying degrees of severity in how it impacted them in terms of learning how to read but all are horrible spellers. (They are now 30, 24, and 14.)  All of them know/knew OG rules which are helpful for reading, but the rules are absolutely not helpful for spelling bc you cannot reverse your way into correct spelling bc there are too many correct phonogram options.

The only program that has every helped improve their spelling is Apples and Pears.  It includes discrimination exercises, spiral dictation, and building words with morphemes.  I use HTTS with my kids after they finish A&P or with my kids who are not struggling spellers.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, countrymum said:

doing lots of copywork and writing with me spelling it for him.

Have you thought about doing dictation? AAS had you doing some, but you could do more. My dd was very crunchy, not dyslexic, and she needed to *see* the words and interact with them multiple ways. So we'd do dictation *and* a spelling workbook *and* typing *and* a computerized spelling program and and.  And I'm saying how much I did and I've been very relaxed with my ds who is diagnosed with dyslexia. He has language issues, and spelling is also a developmental language thing. So if it's not clicking, if he's not using it, if he's not trying to use writing/typing/spelling to communicate, it may be a thing to take your time on. I'm not going gung ho like that with ds. We just do bits, as it seems to click.

https://www.spelfabet.com.au/2019/06/new-word-building-card-games/  These are free. We've enjoyed the Spelfabet workbooks also and they're solid, your OG based, phonogram driven approach. So if you wanted something complementary to add a little more into your day, they could be an option. 

Have you considered some hands on kits?

Build-A-Word! Magnet Board - 4-Letter Words

Stack & Build Phonics Flip Books

CVC Words Crossword Puzzles Activity Center

They're a nice change of pace and we've enjoyed the sets we've used so far. I love having open/go structure. They'll give you some variety and they're something he can do independently while you're working with your other kids. 

Unfortunately, I don't think they make anymore the software I used with my dd. It was very confidence building, and I think that's a big thing to do easier tasks to build that proficiency so they REALLY KNOW stuff and know they know it and get a bit more confident. You could enter word lists into Quizlet or some kind of spelling app and play games with them.

In the old days, back with SWR, people used to have their kids write the words daily using audio recordings of the lists. We have kinesthetic memory, so whether you write or type them it's actually an evidence based practice. Gives you an additional way to be getting that repetition. 

[forty-two]

Both of my girls were that way - OG-style spell-your-way-into-reading was great for learning to read, but didn't transfer over to spelling beyond CVC words.  Like PeterPan, I did a *lot* of different things with them:

*Did another go-around through our OG-style phonogram-based program, but in cursive, using it as both cursive practice and spelling practice.  (Was great for learning cursive, for cementing phonics, and for developing the ability to read/write by syllables, but by itself didn't do overmuch for spelling - more helped with precursor skills.)

*Did Spelling You See: its visual marking system was just the addition to studied dictation that we needed.  (My oldest especially needed it - it taught her to pay attention to the insides of words.)  I use SYS's marking system for all our studied dictation (doing Dictation Day by Day with middle now); I also converted WWE's cold dictation into studied dictation for my oldest (because her spelling wasn't good enough to write it without practice), and had both girls use the marking system on WWE's copywork.  I do SYS in cursive instead of the print they strongly recommend, because I've got kids who have excellent visual memories but who struggle with spelling by ear, so the way the different fonts interrupt visual memory and require them to work through it more by ear is a feature instead of a bug for us.  Dictation in general has been a big help in spelling.

*Did Rewards Reading: hit the reading side of working through multisyllabic words by morphographs, but many of the skills it worked on are needed for spelling words by morphographs as well (lots of practice with breaking words into morphographs and putting morphographs together into words).

*Did Spelling through Morphographs: this has been *huge* in developing their spelling ability.

*Did Touch, Type, Read, and Spell: an OG approach to spelling, so it gives us a third time through OG (and to a higher level)

 

In general, I've combined reading-based instruction, spelling-based instruction, and dictation (studied first, and studied and cold, once they are able to spell well enough).  They've needed the targeted instruction to learn *how* to spell, and the extensive dictation work to give them enough practice applying their fledgling spelling skills so that they can learn to spell "in the wild".
 

[8filltheheart]

6 minutes ago, forty-two said:

 

*Did Spelling through Morphographs: this has been *huge* in developing their spelling ability.

 

Apples and Pears is essentially a cheap version of Spelling through Morphographs.  I have owned both.  Very similar approaches.

[countrymum]

8FillTheHeart when did you use Apples and Pears?

Thanks to everyone for ideas. I am listening and still thinking. The Memoria Press spelling book has phonics review (phonogram drill and writing phonograms), some dictation, weekly tests and coloring of vowels and vowel teams and consonants and consonant teams (somewhat like spelling you see). I have it already so I can look at it best. Of the other options, I am so far most interested in Apples and Pears. 

[8filltheheart]

32 minutes ago, countrymum said:

8FillTheHeart when did you use Apples and Pears?

Thanks to everyone for ideas. I am listening and still thinking. The Memoria Press spelling book has phonics review (phonogram drill and writing phonograms), some dictation, weekly tests and coloring of vowels and vowel teams and consonants and consonant teams (somewhat like spelling you see). I have it already so I can look at it best. Of the other options, I am so far most interested in Apples and Pears. 

I'm still using it.  My 8th grader is dyslexic.  She is about 1/2 way through book D.  (My 4th grader can spell better than her older sister.)  My worst dyslexic did spelling all the way through 12th grade.

[countrymum]

 

16 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I'm still using it. 

Sorry, I meant to ask when did you START with Apples and Pears? Was it right after the child could read well or when? Thanks. I'm wondering if he's ready. Some people were saying they had hit walls with it. I'm good with modifying and slowing down....

He likes the Memoria Press book I have. It may help, I own it.....I am going to spend some time reading the Apples and Pears book tonight. I am not too worried about his spelling. My own spelling was terrible through high school....and I graduated with honors and liked school. I think an Orton Gillingham class during college and spell check finally helped me. I want to slowly and non stressfully work at it.

[8filltheheart]

Not until they could decide to read. 

Since the entire A&P is viewable online, you should be able to get a sense of if fits your needs. 

FWIW, we never do a lesson a day. We progess very slowly, until they master the words. I completely ignore the lesson pages. I also teach without the workbooks if the make errors. We just review on a dry erase board. 

[countrymum]

So do you use the workbook once, then review on board or never use it at all?

[countrymum]

I am still curious about AAS. How long did you stick with it before seeing "progress". 

AAS, Traditional Spelling (MP), Apples and Pears, my own OG approach blended with studied(?) dictation..... How to decide??

 

I think we need dictation, some phonogram review, and lots and lots and lots (ectra) of practice reading and spelling and writing and oral spelling words.

Any other thoughts?

Would yoy do studied or cold dictation?

 

[EssTreeB]

Sorry this is a late reply, but I also encourage you to check out Apples and Pears, I think it's what you're looking for. It's open and go. Zero prep. I have twin 8 year who are not natural spellers at all. I completed Logic of English A-C with them as well as half of D (because I suspected slight dyslexia). It's an excellent program, but did not give the kind of spelling and reading practice we needed and all the fiddly parts exhausted me. We took a break and did copy work every day and french dictation one a week (Brave writer style), but spelling was just not sticking. I recently switched to Apples and Pears book A and I love it. My boys don't love it, but they don't really complain too much :) Tons of repetition and dictation which my guys need. It does have lots of writing, but that has really helped their writing stamina. I have seen improvement in just a few months of using it. I liked it so much I got the company's phonics program dancing bears fast track to get some practice this summer. I think age 8 is the perfect time to start. You can view the entire curriculum in their website: https://www.soundfoundations.co.uk/en_US/product/apples-pears-workbook-a1/

We started doing a full lesson per day from level a, but it ramps up quickly and now do half a lesson per day. We're only 75% through book A, but I plan to continue on with the program. My husband is a terrible speller, so I'm not expecting miracles, but the slow and steady improvement is encouraging. Hence this epic post :) Good luck!