wehave8 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Could you compare these? Pros/cons? I am looking for 13 & 15 yo dss. 13 yo is very good in math and used Saxon Alg.1 (likes it, but wants to do a separate geometry...didn't like the looks of Saxon Geom.). 15 yo is not as good in math, and he did TT Alg.1. He is not excited about TT Geom. (He reviewed the CDs we have.) They both looked at sample videos of MwoB and DO Geometry courses. They can't decide by just viewing them. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Well, are you planning on grading yourself? If you want an outside grader, go with DO. If you plan on grading yourself, how comfortable are you with grading proofs? There could be more than one correct way to do the proof, so you have to follow the logic your student put down in order to see if the proof is "correct." The only one of Derek Owens' classes that I've seen more than just a smattering of negatives on would be Geometry just because he uses an edition of Jacobs Geometry that isn't necessarily as easy for all kids to learn from. (Some kids do great with it. DO, of course, puts his own teaching style in there, so it could work just fine.) I think both providers offer help if the student gets stuck. I haven't used either program for geometry, so I couldn't speak to that. Hopefully, this will provide an extra bump so someone else will chime in that has had a kid use one or both for geometry. But, it would help if you gave a little more info on what exactly you are looking for to differentiate them. Like, which one is harder? Which one teaches more strategies? Does one teach lots of proofs & the other one doesn't? (Or, which one teaches two column proofs vs paragraph proofs?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidlit Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 FWIW, I chose DO for geometry for the reason the pp mentioned above. I didn’t want to grade proofs! Dd did use MWOB for algebra I and liked it well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 10 hours ago, hopeistheword said: I chose DO for geometry for the reason the pp mentioned above. I didn’t want to grade proofs! Rootann has me worried now, can you tell me what kind of proofs DO uses? I have been naively skipping along assuming that ds will continue from mom-graded algebra I into mom-graded geometry, but now I'm wondering if I can cut it! I think 2-column proofs would be ok, but paragraph format would be a challenge for both of us. Are there a lot of proofs? Separately, he and I have been wondering how to keep his algebra skills "fresh" does DO have any review of those topics over the course of the year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Peanuts Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, SusanC said: Separately, he and I have been wondering how to keep his algebra skills "fresh" does DO have any review of those topics over the course of the year? I've got my kiddo ready to start DO geometry next week. The syllabus lists algebra review pretty regularly. Here's a link to it: https://derekowens.com/CourseSyllabuses2.aspx?Location=Online&Day=Monday&Year=2018-2019&Course=Geometry&Teacher=Mr. Owens 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidlit Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, SusanC said: Rootann has me worried now, can you tell me what kind of proofs DO uses? I have been naively skipping along assuming that ds will continue from mom-graded algebra I into mom-graded geometry, but now I'm wondering if I can cut it! I think 2-column proofs would be ok, but paragraph format would be a challenge for both of us. Are there a lot of proofs? Separately, he and I have been wondering how to keep his algebra skills "fresh" does DO have any review of those topics over the course of the year? Yes, I believe algebra is reviewed as the pp mentioned. My concern with the proofs is that I would not know alternate solutions, etc. Also, my dd is unexpectedly homeschooling again after being in ps for one semester, so I literally do not have the time to teach her anything right now due to other commitments, and even keeping up with grading would be a real struggle. She did spend one month in geometry in ps, and fwiw, she says that sometimes she misses things because “they’re called something different in this class.” I don’t know how much of that is her frustration speaking (her grades in DO are lower than in any of her ps classes due to all the extra work ps teachers gave, etc.) and how much of it might be the truth. Geometry is the one math class I always said I’d personally never teach my own children (well, maybe that and pre-cal/cal) because it was the hardest one for me. I’m happy to hand it off. ETA: I don’t think I actually answered your question. As far as I can tell from my very cursory following of her work, it is just two-column proofs. Edited April 13, 2019 by hopeistheword 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) We used Math without Borders for algebra (in 7th... my daughter came from AoPS BA but didn't want to do their algebra yet) but followed it with AoPS algebra in 8th, and now in 9th we're using DO for geometry. My daughter really didn't like the Math without Borders and after we evaluated everything else, she decided she was fine with the DO ones. (Truthfully, she adores the AoPS videos but they don't extend to geometry). Just FYI, DO has a half-price self-grading option where he gives you the answers for all the assignments and tests that he gives. You still have to buy the Jacob's solution guide for the book exercises if you don't want to do the calculations. We chose the self grading option, and most of DO proofs are 2 column but he occasionally demonstrates the paragraph style. Grading has been really easy for me because DD rarely gets anything wrong. I don't know if it's because it seemed so easy compared to AoPS or she's just exceptionally good at geometry, but after her initial fear of test taking, she rarely gets anything wrong on the homework or tests. If she does, it's something minor and as soon as I show her the correct answer, she gets what she did wrong. ETA: Every chapter in Jacobs includes algebra review for a specific topic and Derek includes videos for that review too. Also, I watch all the videos with her so that I know how he's teaching something in case she does have any questions. So, I'd say that DO has been really successful for us, but also very easy. That being said, she doesn't want to go back to the challenges of AoPS because math is far from her love even though she's strong at it so we're continuing with DO for algebra 2. Edited April 13, 2019 by deerforest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 17 hours ago, RootAnn said: But, it would help if you gave a little more info on what exactly you are looking for to differentiate them. Like, which one is harder? Which one teaches more strategies? Does one teach lots of proofs & the other one doesn't? (Or, which one teaches two column proofs vs paragraph proofs?) That's just it. I'm not sure what to ask. I am hoping reviews will bring points out that I haven't thought of. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, deerforest said: We used Math without Borders for algebra (in 7th... my daughter came from AoPS BA but didn't want to do their algebra yet) but followed it with AoPS algebra in 8th, and now in 9th we're using DO for geometry. My daughter really didn't like the Math without Borders and after we evaluated everything else, she decided she was fine with the DO ones. (Truthfully, she adores the AoPS videos but they don't extend to geometry). Just FYI, DO has a half-price self-grading option where he gives you the answers for all the assignments and tests that he gives. You still have to buy the Jacob's solution guide for the book exercises if you don't want to do the calculations. We chose the self grading option, and most of DO proofs are 2 column but he occasionally demonstrates the paragraph style. Grading has been really easy for me because DD rarely gets anything wrong. I don't know if it's because it seemed so easy compared to AoPS or she's just exceptionally good at geometry, but after her initial fear of test taking, she rarely gets anything wrong on the homework or tests. If she does, it's something minor and as soon as I show her the correct answer, she gets what she did wrong. ETA: Every chapter in Jacobs includes algebra review for a specific topic and Derek includes videos for that review too. Also, I watch all the videos with her so that I know how he's teaching something in case she does have any questions. So, I'd say that DO has been really successful for us, but also very easy. That being said, she doesn't want to go back to the challenges of AoPS because math is far from her love even though she's strong at it so we're continuing with DO for algebra 2. Actually, I was hoping to do the grading myself. I have people at our church who are mathy, and they said they could help if we got stuck. This is exactly the review I needed. After more video samples, both boys like DO better, but I was a little nervous with some reviews of how difficult it could be. You have given me hope. 🙂 Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 As I continued to research, I found this.... "The only course that I wasn't thrilled with was the geometry course. There is a disconnect between the instruction, the practice problems (from the Jacobs 3rd edition book), and the HW and test problems. For that course, I ended up listening to the lectures myself and then teaching the material to my son. I had to supplement heavily with problems from the Jacobs 2nd edition book, which has a much more scaffolded approach to proofs. In the end, my son did very well in the course and learned a lot, but it was a huge amount of work for both of us." Quoted from: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) I don't see a disconnect at all so I'm just not sure what that refers to. My daughter reads the book, we watch the videos together (and she often comments on the repetition between the book and DO), and then she does the homework he assigns (book and additional assignments). We've found it to be completely aligned with the book. I certainly can't guarantee that your child will be successful. I'm just sharing that from our experience coming from AoPS, my daughter has found the course to be easy. From AoPS as a comparison, we did have a big increase in the number of problems because AoPS opts for fewer, more challenging ones, and she had to learn how to take math tests. We're finishing the full course in 1 academic year without a problem and without additional teaching from me, like I mentioned. Good luck! Edited April 13, 2019 by deerforest 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 On 4/13/2019 at 8:50 AM, 2Peanuts said: I've got my kiddo ready to start DO geometry next week. The syllabus lists algebra review pretty regularly. Here's a link to it: https://derekowens.com/CourseSyllabuses2.aspx?Location=Online&Day=Monday&Year=2018-2019&Course=Geometry&Teacher=Mr. Owens Are you doing the grading, or is DO doing it? What did you do for Alg. 1? Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Peanuts Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, wehave8 said: Are you doing the grading, or is DO doing it? What did you do for Alg. 1? I didn't know that grading the work myself was an option until after we signed up. While I could grade the work myself, I'm opting to let DO's folks do it because I'm still deeply involved with teaching DS10, who is on the spectrum. DD14 is a very responsible kid and responds well to external expectations so having DO grade her work will keep her on track. As for Algebra 1, I taught her using Jacobs' Elementary Algebra, which worked very well for both of us. She also took Algebra A through AOPS to see if their teaching style was a good fit for her. It wasn't. I have high hopes for DO, after all the comments I've read on these boards. We just started it yesterday and so far, DD likes his lecture style. We plan to continue working on geometry through the summer --- DD's choice! She enjoys having just 1 subject to focus on over the summer. She says the days are otherwise too boring. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 10 hours ago, wehave8 said: Are you doing the grading, or is DO doing it? What did you do for Alg. 1? Pam I answered all of this in my initial response up thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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