Is HOE still useful if...

[Sarah0000]

The child can do balance math type problems with shapes like found in MM and CWP and isn't confused by simple equations with unknown variables like in BA3b and Miquon Purple (IIRC, we do a lot of different math programs)? What about HOE Fractions?

[wendyroo]

My son did go through the HOE app even though he could already solve those types of problems.  It was good review, but it was easy, so he did not linger.  I used it as an opportunity to gradually introduce how to correctly write and solve equations in algebraic notation.

What we did find to be an amazing resource is the HOE word problem book.  That was a great next step that taught him how to use equations to solve lots of real-life problems.  I also loved how the problems were scaffolded - starting with easy problems on a topic and then gradually adding complexity.

Wendy

[SoCal_Bear]

I agree with wendyroo. If you just get the HOE program and don't get this book, you miss the best part of it. I don't mean the intro book, it's the thick one. I ordered my through Rainbow Resource. 

http://www.borenson.com/AboutHandsOnEquations/VerbalProblemsBook/tabid/843/Default.aspx

I thought HOE Fractions was pretty good for cementing fractions using manipulatives. It seemed to help cement things. I think I used it after SM3b to cement things because I noticed his grasp of fractions wasn't completely where I thought it should be. I could have used it earlier. I did use both SM and BA a level behind, so it must have also been during BA3.

[SeaConquest]

I can't comment on HOE fractions, but I also agree with the Verbal Problems Book.

 

[arliemaria]

I bought the book after hearing you all mention it. I bought the laminate balance and the little manipulatives. Robby did level 1 app in the winter, but I can’t quite understand the book. This shows my poor math abilities. Could someone walk me through the first couple problems? I think that would help me a lot in introducing the book to him. Thanks in advance!

[wendyroo]

13 minutes ago, arliemaria said:

I bought the book after hearing you all mention it. I bought the laminate balance and the little manipulatives. Robby did level 1 app in the winter, but I can’t quite understand the book. This shows my poor math abilities. Could someone walk me through the first couple problems? I think that would help me a lot in introducing the book to him. Thanks in advance!

The solutions are very thorough and helpful.  For example, if you look at #1 on page 25, it is a question about multiplying and then increasing a number.  It is a Level 1 problem, so should require the same level of skills that Robby completed in the app.  If you struggle to figure out how to set up the problem, then the solution in fully laid out on page 29.  It actually shows the balance with the pawns and numbers.

Wendy

[SoCal_Bear]

I can't speak to the app since I have the HOE set. There are DVD lessons that explain and teach you to solve using the manipulatives.

Have you flipped through the book? There are full solutions in there as well.

[Jackie]

I’ll agree that the meat of the program is in the verbal problems book. However, that book is incredibly dry. So, so dry. I eventually gave up when my kid started thinking of it as some form of bizarre torture. We have, however, gotten out the manipulatives or used the principles from HOE as we’ve come across the need to do algebraic equations in other resources.

[8filltheheart]

I don't find the Verbal Book dry.  I typically give my kids 3 problems per day to work through when they are functioning on 3rd-5th grade levels which roughly equates to level 1 problems for 3rd grade, level 2 for 4th, and level 3 for 5th.

[Sarah0000]

So the problems in the book are significantly different from the shapes balance types found in CWP, MM, and CTC?

[8filltheheart]

They are word problems similar to the word problems you might find in CWP but kids solve them with algebra vs. bar diagrams.  I personally dislike the bar diagram model.  I much prefer teaching my kids how to solve with simple algebraic approaches when they are little and HOE verbal problems work well for that.

[Sarah0000]

Oh ok got it. 

[wendyroo]

1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I don't find the Verbal Book dry.  I typically give my kids 3 problems per day to work through when they are functioning on 3rd-5th grade levels which roughly equates to level 1 problems for 3rd grade, level 2 for 4th, and level 3 for 5th.

Similarly we worked through the book concurrently with Math Mammoth 4 and 5, but we worked straight through beginning to end rather than doing all the Level 1s and then the Level 2s, etc.  I normally assigned 5-6 easy problems (Level 1s), or 3-4 medium problems, or 2-3 hard problems on any given day.

We did not find it dry at all.  We did have some minor rebellions during the distance/rate section, but that is because some of those problems are very long and dense and challenging, not because they are boring.

Wendy

[arliemaria]

7 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I don't find the Verbal Book dry.  I typically give my kids 3 problems per day to work through when they are functioning on 3rd-5th grade levels which roughly equates to level 1 problems for 3rd grade, level 2 for 4th, and level 3 for 5th.

 

These three problems or so were in addition to your other curricula, correct? We are currently waiting for BA Online. My son is going through some old SM IP workbook, Sunshine Math, past University of Waterloo problem of the week problems, while also working on his multiplication facts on XtraMath. He has always had trouble with speed.  He is not terribly slow, but I know it will help if he becomes quicker. This I am sure this is part of his dyslexia (working memory issue).

  I guess what I am asking is what’s enough and what is too much? Sometimes I can overdo things in a fear that I will be letting him down if I don't provide enough instruction/structure/challenge. Other times it is him diving the cart faster than I’d like.

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, arliemaria said:

These three problems or so were in addition to your other curricula, correct? We are currently waiting for BA Online. My son is going through some old SM IP workbook, Sunshine Math, past University of Waterloo problem of the week problems, while also working on his multiplication facts on XtraMath. He has always had trouble with speed.  He is not terribly slow, but I know it will help if he becomes quicker. This I am sure this is part of his dyslexia (working memory issue).

  I guess what I am asking is what’s enough and what is too much? Sometimes I can overdo things in a fear that I will be letting him down if I don't provide enough instruction/structure/challenge. Other times it is him diving the cart faster than I’d like.

Sounds like you are doing plenty already. My kids don't do multiple programs. They do Horizons math for elementary concepts.  It doesn't take them long and Horizons is weak in word problems, so I add in those few extra word problems a day (and typically it is only 3-4 days per week.)

Fwiw, my experience with my kids has been that they have been able to understand concepts well and can easily apply them without hyper-focusing on every aspect of the concept. We just talk and I ask them questions to get them to think about why we do different things as they are working and the connections are made. 

[arliemaria]

On 5/16/2018 at 2:27 PM, wendyroo said:

The solutions are very thorough and helpful.  For example, if you look at #1 on page 25, it is a question about multiplying and then increasing a number.  It is a Level 1 problem, so should require the same level of skills that Robby completed in the app.  If you struggle to figure out how to set up the problem, then the solution in fully laid out on page 29.  It actually shows the balance with the pawns and numbers.

Wendy

 

I pulled the book back out today after it being in our maths drawer for months. Robby zipped through a few pages without me helping him at all. I guess I shouldn’t be so apprehensive about math.