Discussion Questions in Moving Beyond the Page Lit Guides

[sweetpea3829]

I'm thinking of giving MBTP a whirl this upcoming school year.  Primarily for the literature guides/discussions.  We use other sources for composition, grammar, etc.  In looking at the available samples, they don't really show much in the way of their discussion sections, or literary analysis sections.  

Can anybody comment on the quality of those specific sections?  We would be using some of the titles from the 8-10 level, 9-11 level, and the 11-13 level.  

[Syllieann]

In the 8-10 and 9-11 there are comprehension questions with some how would you feel or what would you do types of questions strewn in.  Most of the literature-specific things are developed and practiced via the composition assignments.  There are some things where they are practiced with graphic organizers, filling a bag with symbolic items, painting a picture, creating a sculpture, etc, but really you would be missing out on a ton if you skipped the composition.  I recommend looking elsewhere for literature or allowing mbtp to be both literature and composition.  We haven’t used 11-13 and I know the format changes in that one, so it is possible that things are different for that age range, but I seriously doubt it.

[sweetpea3829]

I'm wondering if we could keep the composition from MBTP and continue with the composition we're using from EIW?  Or would that be overkill?  

I was thinking of ditching EIW this year in favor of something different for composition, tbh, because they no longer offer pdf files and they have gotten quite expensive.  At least with the pdf, I could justify the expense because I could use it with all four kids.  

[Syllieann]

47 minutes ago, sweetpea3829 said:

I'm wondering if we could keep the composition from MBTP and continue with the composition we're using from EIW?  Or would that be overkill?  

I was thinking of ditching EIW this year in favor of something different for composition, tbh, because they no longer offer pdf files and they have gotten quite expensive.  At least with the pdf, I could justify the expense because I could use it with all four kids.  

I do think mbtp plus eiw would be overkill on composition.  We use mbtp as our only composition with very little writing in other subjects, mainly a few sentences rather than assigning a report or short essay.  Mbtp has you writing about a good mix of fiction and nonfiction topics, both science and history.  If you were going to add anything to it, some light grammar would be better for most kids.  Mbtp will seem heavy on writing and light on grammar to most wtm-ers.

[sweetpea3829]

Revisiting this topic, as I sit here with a number of Rainbow Resources tabs open, trying to make decisions, lol.  

Essentials in Writing Grade 6 for composition and grammar (with Editor in Chief for grammar review and Word Roots for vocabulary development) plus MBTP primarily for literature and discussion.

Or...bite the bullet and just go with Moving Beyond the Page.

So...next question...

We've already read a handful of the books from some of the levels we would be using.  And in some cases, we've completed a lit guide.  For example, we did Hobbit in 2016/2017 using a lit guide from Discovering Literature.  I loved their lit guide, but they have very few book choices.  

If I did not use all of the lit guides for a given grade level, choosing to skip a couple of lit guides for books we've done already, would we miss important content?  Or would that content be covered elsewhere?  

[HomeAgain]

We mixed and matched guides one year.  I picked books I thought my kid would be interested in, that's it. I know we had at least one 8-10, another from 9-11...it didn't matter for us.  But I was using them as a stop/gap - I wanted LLATL to work for us and it bombed miserably here.  MBTP gave us exactly what I wanted for the year before switching to WWS the next year.  He got exposed to literary elements.  He learned various ways to organize his thoughts.  He had a lot of fun projects.  Was it as orderly as it might have been if we did all one grade level?  Probably not.  But he remembered a lot of what he did and learned through each guide and that mattered more to me.

[Syllieann]

4 hours ago, sweetpea3829 said:

Revisiting this topic, as I sit here with a number of Rainbow Resources tabs open, trying to make decisions, lol.  

Essentials in Writing Grade 6 for composition and grammar (with Editor in Chief for grammar review and Word Roots for vocabulary development) plus MBTP primarily for literature and discussion.

Or...bite the bullet and just go with Moving Beyond the Page.

So...next question...

We've already read a handful of the books from some of the levels we would be using.  And in some cases, we've completed a lit guide.  For example, we did Hobbit in 2016/2017 using a lit guide from Discovering Literature.  I loved their lit guide, but they have very few book choices.  

If I did not use all of the lit guides for a given grade level, choosing to skip a couple of lit guides for books we've done already, would we miss important content?  Or would that content be covered elsewhere?  

The grammar and composition builds gradually over the year.  I don’t recommend a mix and match approach if you are using it as a full language arts program.  The literary portion could probably be treated more as a buffet if you are using it with EIW.  Things get revisited frequently and spiral across the grade levels.  It seems like a lot of money to spend if you’re just using the literature portion.  I’d say around 15% at 8-10 and 20% at the 9-11 is the literature portion that you want.  The rest is comp, grammar, and vocabulary.

[Farrar]

You've already read and even studied several of the books, the discussion question element which you're interested in is pretty minimal, and you're unsure about the composition... I guess... what's drawing you to MBtP when all those things seem like they'd be marks against it?

We never ended up using it, but I've seen it and known families who did... the families that it worked for seemed to all have kids who were self-motivated to do school, but liked to be kind of independent, and enjoyed the worksheet style guidance with a touch of creativity. It sounds like you want something more hands on for you to sink your teeth into with your kids. I just don't think it's that deep a program.

[sweetpea3829]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:16 PM, Farrar said:

You've already read and even studied several of the books, the discussion question element which you're interested in is pretty minimal, and you're unsure about the composition... I guess... what's drawing you to MBtP when all those things seem like they'd be marks against it?

We never ended up using it, but I've seen it and known families who did... the families that it worked for seemed to all have kids who were self-motivated to do school, but liked to be kind of independent, and enjoyed the worksheet style guidance with a touch of creativity. It sounds like you want something more hands on for you to sink your teeth into with your kids. I just don't think it's that deep a program.

 

A fair point, Farrar.  I had assumed that the discussion aspect of MBTP was a bit more in depth.  I'm looking for more guidance/hand-holding in Language Arts, I guess.  More of a directed course to follow.  

Do this, this and this...and you'll have covered the necessary parts of literacy, grammar, composition, etc.  LOL!  But with good solid books and good solid higher order thinking questions.  I like most of their reading selections.  I mean...I suppose we could do Hobbit again, lol.  

[ondreeuh]

I am a fan of MBTP LA, but I agree that the strength is in the composition. The discussion questions are the weakest part of the program, but the grammar is pretty weak too (it has a lot of breadth, but not a lot of review & depth, so while it looks like it covers a lot, it doesn't really cover it thoroughly like a standalone grammar program). If you just want to focus on good discussion & vocabulary with light lessons on literary analysis, then Novel-Ties are much better for the price. My youngest actually really dislikes the questions in MBTP because they are kind of vague and open to interpretation. He does fine if we discuss aloud, but he can't easily commit to an answer in writing because it's subjective. YMMV.

This past school year, my youngest did most of the 9-11 guides but we did NOT do the comp. I had a lot of other LA scheduled, and I just used the MBTP guides because I already had them and liked the books. We are actually working on The Witch of Blackbird Pond right now, and we will do the composition. Next year we will do many of the 10-12 guides, hopefully with the composition too, as I have cut back on other resources for that. 

My personal opinion is that MBTP misses the mark. It tries to be a good fit for gifted learners, but the writing level is more advanced than the reading/discussion level. I think it should be switched, so that the reading level & discussion questions are more challenging, but the writing is more average. That seems to be how most gifted kids roll - ready for more in-depth analysis, but not necessarily ready to pump out 5-paragraph essays in third grade.