Opinions about Mathnasium and this kid and math in general

[spaceman]

I am thinking of putting my son (newly 11/5th grade) in Mathnasium.

 

•He doesn't know math facts, but this may be a processing issue as he can do long division without errors easily and other things that rely on math facts. He cannot do them quickly. But when you walk away or give him extra time, he does just fine.

•On grade equivalency, on the CAT, he scored 3.7 on computation and 5.1 on concepts.

•He has only ever done Montessori math which does some things out of order and may skip some things done in certain curriculums. It's definitely different that traditional math. It's so different that I can't tell if he's ahead or behind, but I assume the best way to get him what he needs is t assume behind.

•We currently do 1.5 hours of math per day. He does 30 minutes of Montessori math (currently he's working on squaring binomials and trinomials which he can easily do both with arithmetic and algebraic terms--easily) and 30 minutes on Montessori Geometry (not that different from traditional ed, I don't think, he's measuring angles and adding angles and laying groundwork for more complex geometry which is not included in his 1st-6th grade curriculum. He's almost done with the geometry portion. I'm leaving finding the area of solid figures for 6th grade.)

•The other half hour he does with khan academy which we specifically chose to expose him to "traditional" ed. We placed him in 3rd grade earlier this year, but added up the skills and his pacing is such that he'll finish 3rd and 4th this year and 5th and 6th next year.

•I mentioned only the khan academy bit in short to Mathnasium and they said they would assess him, but he'd probably start with second grade material.

 

He's also almost done with his Montessori Curriculum and aside from tightening up his math facts and his long multiplication, I'm not sure where to head next. I had always envisioned AoPS because I've personally used it, but this child doesn't seem at all ready for that.

 

I'm feeling at a loss. He will finish his current curriculum before he finishes next year (6th grade). Is Mathnasium a good place to help us supplement and shore up some of those missing areas? What are other good curricula for this child? Is khan academy a waste of time?

Edited December 21, 2017 by spaceman

[Kiara.I]

I have no experience with mathnasium so no idea. I just don't imagine that their math teaching would somehow be superior to your math teaching...

 

I'd be inclined to go a couple of different routes on this.

 

You could play Rightstart math card games for practice on math facts. (By the way, has he done any targeted math fact practice? Or did the curriculum simply not really address that?)

 

If you think he's got weak areas you could look at the AL Activities for the Abacus.

 

Alternately, you could put him through the CLE placement tests and see what areas are weak, and use it to address them.

 

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[OneStepAtATime]

1.  Khan academy is only a waste of time if he is not learning from it or he is "doing" it but not really retaining.  It can be a great resource.  Most use it as a supplement but it can be used as a spine.  For the latter to be successful it usually works best if you are still the teacher, you review the new material with the student, you work with the student as they do problems to confirm their understanding, and the student writes down what they are doing,  then enters answers into the system, especially for new material, instead of just plopping them in front of the computer and walking away (not that you are doing that but I thought I would mention it).  As a supplement or review it isn't as necessary for a parent to be directly involved daily, though.

2.  Mathnasium can also be a great resource but it is meant to support students in brick and mortar, not as a spine for a homeschooler.  It can be used that way but you would need to talk with the director of the local program in more depth to see what they are willing/able to offer.  They have a set curriculum that they use, unlike a tutor that might use whatever you provide.  They may have the attitude that any gaps are due to your "poor homeschooling practices" so be prepared for a subtle negative attitude (BTDT).  Don't take it personally.  

3.  There are tons of great curriculums out there.  It depends on where you want to go from here.  If you like AoPS and prefer something more non-traditional but your child is not ready for AoPS you could look at Beast Academy.  It is a great program for a lot of kids and would prepare your son for AoPS.  I think there is a placement test to see where he would need to be.  Don't let the cartoon characters fool you.  This is a very in depth math program.

4.  Are you seeking a full curriculum or a supplement?  

5.  If you want to see where he is at based on a more traditional flow you might give a placement test for some of the more traditional programs.  CLE has a free one I will link below but there are many.  First set is the diagnostic test for 1st-4th grade then the TM for grading.  The next set is for 5th-8th.  I would suggest starting with 1st-4th to see if there are any gaps.  Keep going into the next set only if he is doing well with the first.  The test can be long for some kids so I would maybe break each one up into two sessions.  CLE has a bit different scope and sequence than some programs so don't be concerned if some things are unfamiliar to him.  This is just to give you a basic idea of what else is possibly being covered in other programs.

 

https://www.clp.org/product/math_100_400_diagnostic_test_1658

https://www.clp.org/product/math_100_400_diagnostic_teachers_guide_1662

 

https://www.clp.org/product/math_500_800_diagnostic_test_1659

https://www.clp.org/product/math_500_800_diagnostic_teachers_guide_1663

[spaceman]

Kiara.l the Curriculum didn't really address math fact automaticity. In fact, the gaps in his knowledge are all gaps from the curriculum. I just really don't want to bad-mouth Montessori. Also, he went to a Montessori brick and mortar school until March when he began homeschooling. I'm Montessori trained so that's the direction we went. I felt the brick and mortar school pushed the 3-6 year olds more than they do the elementary kids and I've felt both of mine fall behind by Montessori standards at that age.

[spaceman]

1. Khan academy is only a waste of time if he is not learning from it or he is "doing" it but not really retaining. It can be a great resource. Most use it as a supplement but it can be used as a spine. For the latter to be successful it usually works best if you are still the teacher, you review the new material with the student, you work with the student as they do problems to confirm their understanding, and the student writes down what they are doing, then enters answers into the system, especially for new material, instead of just plopping them in front of the computer and walking away (not that you are doing that but I thought I would mention it). As a supplement or review it isn't as necessary for a parent to be directly involved daily, though.

2. Mathnasium can also be a great resource but it is meant to support students in brick and mortar, not as a spine for a homeschooler. It can be used that way but you would need to talk with the director of the local program in more depth to see what they are willing/able to offer. They have a set curriculum that they use, unlike a tutor that might use whatever you provide. They may have the attitude that any gaps are due to your "poor homeschooling practices" so be prepared for a subtle negative attitude (BTDT). Don't take it personally.

3. There are tons of great curriculums out there. It depends on where you want to go from here. If you like AoPS and prefer something more non-traditional but your child is not ready for AoPS you could look at Beast Academy. It is a great program for a lot of kids and would prepare your son for AoPS. I think there is a placement test to see where he would need to be. Don't let the cartoon characters fool you. This is a very in depth math program.

4. Are you seeking a full curriculum or a supplement?

5. If you want to see where he is at based on a more traditional flow you might give a placement test for some of the more traditional programs. CLE has a free one I will link below but there are many. First set is the diagnostic test for 1st-4th grade then the TM for grading. The next set is for 5th-8th. I would suggest starting with 1st-4th to see if there are any gaps. Keep going into the next set only if he is doing well with the first. The test can be long for some kids so I would maybe break each one up into two sessions. CLE has a bit different scope and sequence than some programs so don't be concerned if some things are unfamiliar to him. This is just to give you a basic idea of what else is possibly being covered in other programs.

 

https://www.clp.org/product/math_100_400_diagnostic_test_1658

https://www.clp.org/product/math_100_400_diagnostic_teachers_guide_1662

 

https://www.clp.org/product/math_500_800_diagnostic_test_1659

https://www.clp.org/product/math_500_800_diagnostic_teachers_guide_1663

1. I'm totally the bad type of khan mom. But, we *are* using it as a supplement. Montessori math is the spine until he completes it which will probably be mid-way through 6th grade (a little early, it's meant to go to the end of 6th grade and includes an introduction to algebra through solving for two unknowns). As I mentioned we do an hour and half of math and khan is only 30 minutes (technically it's 2 skills mastered, however long that takes which is always less than 30 minutes, it's just the time I have scheduled). I'll watch him more closely and decide if it's a waste of our time or if it's really helping us. I was using it as one of the things he did that was independent. (That and reading.)

 

2. A) I'm NOT looking to Mathnasium for a spine.

B) I saw a glimpse of the Curriculum yesterday and I liked how it was all individually chosen for each kid. That appeals to me.

C) The director is already blaming his need for lower grade materials on his autism. Also, being his mom, *I'm* autistic enough to not really notice people's attitudes towards us. My son wore make-up into the place when we went the one time. I've developed a thicker skin... I really DO appreciate the heads up anyway though. Anything I can know ahead of time is great.

 

3. I forgot about Beast Academy. I think that's what we will do (wherever he needs to be in it) when he finishes Montessori.

 

4. That's a valid question. My question wasn't super focused. Here's the answer:

-I'm looking to supplement this year and until we no longer need a supplement on the side

-I'm looking for a spine starting mid-next year (you've reminded me of Beast Academy and I think that will fit the bill. As I remember what I've seen--only the 3rd grade book, I think, it's the right mixture of complex and the information he needs to know. It's probably the perfect fit. I will plan to accelerate his speed should he place behind grade level on it, which I'm expecting.)

 

5. Thanks. I will give him this test now. Do you know which types of things that are in CLE and not in others that I should ignore?

 

Thanks again!

[Kiara.I]

 

 

5. Thanks. I will give him this test now. Do you know which types of things that are in CLE and not in others that I should ignore?

 

Thanks again!

Beast academy is great, but I would add something for math facts practice. Card games, computer games, flash cards if you must.

 

Stuff in CLE that you can ignore: memorising pints, quarts, etc. I live in a metric country. By all means the kids can see it and do the conversions if labelled, but I wouldn't consider memorising them. ;)

 

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[OneStepAtATime]

With regards to the CLE diagnostic test I wouldn't ignore stuff unless it is an area you KNOW he has not covered or you do not feel is necessary.  Just let him move through it at his pace, when he is rested, won't be interrupted and is not hungry.  Break it into two segments for each level if that will help his focus.  If he comes across something he has never done, instruct him to try it and if it makes no sense just skip that section.  No worries.  Make it clear this is not a TEST but simply a diagnostic tool to see if there are areas that need to be targeted.

Edited December 21, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, and you might consider doing something like CLE wherever he might place in the program for more targeted systematic review plus targeted math fact practice that is built right into the lessons then do Beast alongside it.  Cut out some of the review problems in CLE.   CLE is written to the student so after you introduce him to the new material he might do well doing the review problems more on his own.  CLE, in other words, might work better than Khan for solidifying math algorithms/facts and filling in gaps while Beast could really hit the conceptual side in more depth.  Many have pared those two programs with success.  You could buy the first 2-3 light units of whatever level of CLE he tests into and just the first book of whatever level of Beast he tests into and see if they make a good pair.  If not, dump the one that isn't working.

[kiwik]

Or you could do the math mammoth tests which are also free on line. My son does prodigy independant maths but I am hoping to try beast academy on line when it becomes available.