What class after WHA Honors Comp?

[RootAnn]

For those of you who either have a kid in WHA's (currently named) Honors Composition or previously had a kid in Honors Comp, what are you doing next or what did they take next?

 

I have been leaning toward Bravewriter online classes because they are short & I can pick & choose, but spent the weekend reading AP English Language & AP English Literature course descriptions and (shocking, for me!), I think my allergic-to-the-pencil kid could handle them. However, I don't think she wants to spend an average of 10 hours/week on English next year. (So, I've pretty much ruled it out for next year, but ... maybe the following year?)

 

So, I'm curious about what the Hive kids have done for post-Honors Comp if they went with an online course.

[h2bh]

I'm interested in hearing from others. My dd is planning to take WHA Logic 2 as well as self study for the AP Language exam. I think she can do it as she is a strong writer but I don't want to add 10 hours/week for that class alone. She will also be writing for TGC 3. Of course, it is still early and our plans might change.

[yvonne]

What does WHA suggest as a follow on to Honors Comp?

[RootAnn]

What does WHA suggest as a follow on to Honors Comp?

 

Rhetoric 1, then Rhetoric 2, I would assume. They also have Literary Analysis & Argumentation. 

 

DD has no interest in taking either class & I agree for this teen. (She doesn't meet the pre-reqs for either.) If she was interested in a Rhetoric class, we'd probably go with WTMA anyway. 

[h2bh]

The last parent meeting suggested this:

Prior to 9th grade: complete FOEW 

9th grade: Logic 1 (with Honors Comp as an optional addition which is soon to be called FOAW)

10th grade: Logic 2

11th grade: Rhetoric 1

12th grade: Rhetoric 2

 

It is assumed that students are also writing for TGC, lab reports, etc.  I can see Logic 2 being a wonderful way to develop the thinking skills that are essential to good writing but this progression is definitely different than my high school years.  Mrs. Lange also offers a Literary Analysis and Argumentation course.  I have been corresponding with her and she recommends it for later in high school.  

Edited February 22, 2017 by h2bh

[yvonne]

 

It is assumed that students are also writing for TGC, lab reports, etc.  I

 

  Mrs. Lange also offers a Literary Analysis and Argumentation course. 

 

I don't think there's any/much writing-specific instruction in TGCs, though, nor significant enough feedback about the writing for a student, assuming he reads the feedback, to incorporate the feedback when writing his next essay.

 

I do keep eyeing the Lit Analysis and Argumentation class, though!  Is anyone taking it this year? Any thoughts?

[h2bh]

I agree that TGC papers don't receive much feedback. I plan to supplement that aspect with some outside feedback on a pay per paper basis.

[RootAnn]

I think any Mrs Lange class will be good because she's a great teacher. (She demands a ton from her FOEW kids.) Honestly, with more mature writers (than FOEW), it would probably be phenomenal for certain kids.

 

I know most WHA kids don't go into Lit Analysis because of the grade/age recommendation. Do most just drop English and just take GC courses?

Edited February 22, 2017 by RootAnn

[EndOfOrdinary]

I am all ears. We were thinking of Honors Comp in two years, but then I was wondering the same thing. Currently, if he likes the Honors Comp, I was going to sign him up for Literary Analysis.

 

Have you looked into Lukeion's Advanced Research class? It is only a semester, but everything they do is so good. This is the only other class hanging around on my radar.

[birchbark]

We went into Rhetoric 1, but I kind of wish we hadn't. DS loves Scott Baker, but the logic part of the class isn't going so well.

 

Next year I'm planning to do the writing class with Center for Lit, then back to WHA's lit analysis class for 12th grade. 

 

That's the current plan, anyway.

[yvonne]

Birchbark,

Could you talk more about the Rhetoric I class?  What are the different parts?

 

It sounds like Logic is one strand. Do they use a text for that?  How exactly do they use it?

 

From the R2 class I sat in on, it looked like another strand was speech--writing and giving one. Is that a strand in R1?

 

What written work is assigned in R1?  And does the instructor give significant, substantive feedback on it to guide the student forward?

 

Why does your ds like SBaker as a teacher? 

 

Please pm, if that's easier.

Thank you so much!

yvonne
 

[RootAnn]

Have you looked into Lukeion's Advanced Research class? It is only a semester, but everything they do is so good. This is the only other class hanging around on my radar.

 

You know, I hadn't looked at it recently. I looked at it awhile ago & shied away because Lukeion = Lots Of Work (in my mind, at least). But, I looked it up & saw that they are adding a new one semester class this fall called "Composition & Research." It is supposed to be an intermediate class to get kids ready for their Advanced Research class in the Spring. It looks like a really good step up from Honors Comp. They do say they want the kids to be Juniors or Seniors, so it probably isn't the next step if your kid took Honors Comp (Fundamentals of Academic Writing) as a Freshman.

 

Let's look at this from a big picture perspective.

6th/7th grade: Constructing Good Paragraphs

8th/9th: Analyzing literature, learning to write essays, citing sources properly

10th: **Practice writing different types of essays**

11th/12th:  Writing longer research papers / AP English class?

 

I think that WHA's Honors Comp is doing a good job with teaching essays & MLA formats. The teacher is still walking the kids through the process very slowly, weaving in all sorts of other things in the process. The next step, IMO, is lots of practice writing essays. I think it could be done in conjunction with literature like CLRC does in their upper level Lit/Composition courses, or (part of) what Blue Tent does in their Honors English 2 class.

 

I'm picky because I'm specifically looking for more of a one-semester class where the kids are practicing writing various types of essays - honing their writing skills while getting a bit faster at pulling them together but learning more sophistication in their writing. Writing essays every 2-4 weeks including choosing topics, rough drafts, editing, and polishing. I'm not personally looking for all the extras (separate parts for vocab, grammar, etc.). However, I do think there is a need for that Intermediate Level between what Honors Comp offers and what you have to do in AP English classes.

[birchbark]

Birchbark,

Could you talk more about the Rhetoric I class?  What are the different parts?

 

Interviewing DS here: A lot of reading Aristotle, classifying different types of rhetoric, and memorizing different steps for each type. Then they outline and give speeches. The outline is graded but most of the feedback is on the speech itself. Speeches are given about once a month. On the most recent speech, they were given peer feedback.

 

It sounds like Logic is one strand. Do they use a text for that?  How exactly do they use it?

 

No texts are used for logic. The students are expected to have learned it before the course. It sounds like logic is not as big a component as I thought. What my DS is bogging down in are all the rhetoric terms, charts, etc. They use Introductory Logic for their logic class prerequisite, and this is what my DS went through last summer. But it was a self-study cram, not the best way to learn logic!

 

From the R2 class I sat in on, it looked like another strand was speech--writing and giving one. Is that a strand in R1?

 

Yes, about once a month. 

 

What written work is assigned in R1?  And does the instructor give significant, substantive feedback on it to guide the student forward?

 

The only written work is the outlines for the speeches. Quizzes are given in almost every class. There are breakout sessions fairly often for the students to analyze articles/songs/videos, etc. DS says teacher feedback is more about what is wrong and why, vs. giving suggestions for next time. 

 

Why does your ds like SBaker as a teacher? 

 

Mostly because he thinks he's funny. He admires Mr. Baker and thinks he's smart and a good teacher, but he did say that the pre-recorded audio lectures that are assigned between classes were "very boring," But DS said these were mostly given at the beginning of the course.

 

I would definitely not classify this as a "writing" course, although it may help with writing.

 

Please pm, if that's easier.

Thank you so much!

yvonne

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Amy in KS]

I wonder if the issue might be Logic 1. At WHA, it looks like they cover both introductory and intermediate logic in Logic 1. We're in Honors Comp now and starting to look at some rhetorical devices. The terminology is a bit challenging...

[EndOfOrdinary]

What is the average age in Honors Comp? I was thinking 14 ish. Perhaps I am off base there.

[RootAnn]

What is the average age in Honors Comp? I was thinking 14 ish. Perhaps I am off base there.

 

It is geared for 9th graders. I'm assuming there are probably a few 8th graders, but most are probably 9th grade, so 14-15ish? I know there are a few Sophomores like my DD, too, but I'm not sure how many.