mirabillis Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) We have used IEW since 5th grade (SWI-A, SICC-A, SICC-B, Elegant Essay, Speech Boot Camp). This year, following their tree plan, we started with Teaching the Classics/Windows to the World. It did not work for us, so we have opted to outsource to WriteatHome. We're only a few weeks in, but it's more practice than anything else. There is no teaching going on, no further writing instruction. And I think I now realize I'm a pretty good editor after all. So for next year, 10th grade, I'm thinking of not continuing with WriteatHome, but going back to IEW. My ds writes well, but I feel there could be more instruction as it pertains to research papers, essays, persuasive essays - I don't think the instruction is over by 9th, is it? So anyone have a suggestion for 10th grade? SICC-C? High School Essay Intensive in addition? or Lost Tools of Writing? (I hear some say this is a great addition to IEW material)... or WAH - full semester or essay/research paper workshop By 11th & 12th, we'll move to AP classes. So we're just looking at bridging the 10th grade year. ****Edited to add - also interested in hearing thoughts on pursuing WAH for 10th grade, full semester option, or one of the essay or research paper workshops, taryn recommended below. Edited February 6, 2017 by mirabillis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) Listening in, and wondering if anyone has used their (IEW's) Classical Rhetoric through Structure and Style which is reportedly based on the Progymnasmata. Supposedly this is also what Lost Tools is based on. Also there is a Memoria Press product referred to in the WTM 4th edition for this. All three are mentioned in the WTM 4th edition if I recall correctly. I would love to hear opinions. We are not even close to this age but I like to keep the future in view with the stuff we are using now. Edited February 5, 2017 by cintinative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cintinative Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) OP, I wanted to mention that there are two versions of the Lost Tools of Writing and everyone I have talked to says that the newer is much easier to follow than the first. So if you look for it used, make sure you get the newer edition. WTM 4 recommends the following options for these ages: IEW--Advanced Communication Series DVD set and Classical Rhetoric through Structure and Style Memoria Press--Classical Composition by James Selby, I-IX, 9th grade would be I through III. Circe Institute--The Lost Tools of Writing (it says 2015 edition--can someone clarify if this is the newest??) I hope this helps a little. Edited February 5, 2017 by cintinative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I own the IEW materials, but I've opted to go with online Brave Writer classes and then on to college or AP courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) Mirabillis, is your DS is taking a 1-semester comp course with WriteAtHome, since you mentioned he just started? If so, have you looked ahead at what it covers compared to their other offerings? The 1-semester courses are basic and do start off in what could seem a slow fashion for a student who has done as much previous writing as your DS has. Narrative and descriptive assignments are first, just to cover the very basics. Then they move on to an expository paper and finally a basic persuasive essay. It sounds like perhaps your DS is beyond that level already. And if you're editing his papers before he turns them in, then you're doing work that you've already paid someone else to do. ;) For us, the best part of WAH is the feedback from the writing coaches. It has more impact on DS than any comments I make, and DS is able to apply it to future assignments due to the Scoratic nature of it too. Considering your son's extensive previous writing experience, I think you'd be getting more bang for your buck if he were placed in the workshop classes that actually teach what you're asking for: Essay 1 workshop, Essay 2 workshop, Research Paper- Informative, Research Paper-Persuasive, and Literary Analysis. FWIW, we also have experience with LToW1, and it teaches only the persuasive essay. The first semester is very basic, not much volume of writing, but more foundational learning and thinking. It picks up some in the second semester. Edited February 6, 2017 by TarynB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 OP, I wanted to mention that there are two versions of the Lost Tools of Writing and everyone I have talked to says that the newer is much easier to follow than the first. So if you look for it used, make sure you get the newer edition. WTM 4 recommends the following options for these ages: IEW--Advanced Communication Series DVD set and Classical Rhetoric through Structure and Style Memoria Press--Classical Composition by James Selby, I-IX, 9th grade would be I through III. Circe Institute--The Lost Tools of Writing (it says 2015 edition--can someone clarify if this is the newest??) I hope this helps a little. Yes, 2015 is the most recent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirabillis Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Mirabillis, is your DS is taking a 1-semester comp course with WriteAtHome, since you mentioned he just started? If so, have you looked ahead at what it covers compared to their other offerings? yes, i did see it builds to more meaty writing. i guess my feeling so far is just that it might be nice for more continued instruction. i'm not sure WAH will provide that. but we have until the end of this year to decide. it's not like my options are for an online course that requires sign-up now. so i can make that decision very spur of the moment after i see what this semester provides. i'm also thinking though for my next dd in line - who will be in 8th next year. so thinking ahead to her 9th grade year and seeing what might work. IEW has been amazing for our kids' writing - maybe a return to SICC-C would be a good thing for my rising 8th grader when she hits 9th. still have to decide what to do for 10th grade, if WAH fails to wow me - we'll see... do you have any experience in their workshops? that sounds very interesting too. i feel like those are the things he really could use more instruction/practice at. or maybe he's just already a really good writer - LOL! Essay 1 workshop, Essay 2 workshop, Research Paper- Informative, Research Paper-Persuasive, and Literary Analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 yes, i did see it builds to more meaty writing. i guess my feeling so far is just that it might be nice for more continued instruction. i'm not sure WAH will provide that. but we have until the end of this year to decide. it's not like my options are for an online course that requires sign-up now. so i can make that decision very spur of the moment after i see what this semester provides. i'm also thinking though for my next dd in line - who will be in 8th next year. so thinking ahead to her 9th grade year and seeing what might work. IEW has been amazing for our kids' writing - maybe a return to SICC-C would be a good thing for my rising 8th grader when she hits 9th. still have to decide what to do for 10th grade, if WAH fails to wow me - we'll see... do you have any experience in their workshops? that sounds very interesting too. i feel like those are the things he really could use more instruction/practice at. or maybe he's just already a really good writer - LOL! Essay 1 workshop, Essay 2 workshop, Research Paper- Informative, Research Paper-Persuasive, and Literary Analysis. I'm sorry, I'm not quite understanding what you meant by the bolded. I got a bit long-winded in my earlier post, but my impression from your OP was that you're disappointed in the level of instruction, and I was just trying to say that maybe it's because you're looking for something that is inherently not offered in the (lower-level, basic) course your DS is presently enrolled in. The workshops that I mentioned might be a better fit for the more advanced writing skills you said you wanted. I don't know if its too late in the semester to switch or not. Again, maybe I'm sort of fuzzy on what you wanted. My apologies if I misunderstood and extrapolated something that I shouldn't have. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrayshire Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 We use a mix of IEW and Bravewriter Online classes....... I adore BW! My 8th grader took Middle School Writing Projects and is currently taking Kidswrite Intermediate ( Angela Harris is a fabulous teacher and really pulls out ideas from my dd) Having someone else critique my dd's writing has been a blessing! I'm thinking ahead for 9th right now...... we may run through Elegant Essay ..... then for 9th grade we may jump into Advanced US Theme book (adding in EIL American lit suggestion) or more BW online classes. I'm saving Windows for 10th grade once she has mastered a variety of essays. My 10th grader dd is strong in writing..... she just finished BWs SAT/ACT writing class and scored very high! I think she is planning on taking College English for 11th. She has taken an English co-op class this year that included AP elements.... My kids enjoy the Themed IEW books over the video lessons..... looks like IEW is coming out with the high school level World History theme book this summer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirabillis Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 I'm sorry, I'm not quite understanding what you meant by the bolded. I got a bit long-winded in my earlier post, but my impression from your OP was that you're disappointed in the level of instruction, and I was just trying to say that maybe it's because you're looking for something that is inherently not offered in the (lower-level, basic) course your DS is presently enrolled in. The workshops that I mentioned might be a better fit for the more advanced writing skills you said you wanted. I don't know if its too late in the semester to switch or not. Again, maybe I'm sort of fuzzy on what you wanted. My apologies if I misunderstood and extrapolated something that I shouldn't have. :) no you were spot on with your advice - thank you. now i'm re-thinking WAH. it's early yet, true. but giving a 1-page synopsis as the 'lesson' thus far just doesn't seem to be cutting it. so i didn't know how it will go as we get into meatier writing assignments. again i will wait and see and decide by end of semester. do you have experience with their workshops? maybe those are great ideas! i wouldn't change now - we're happy for now but just thinking of next year. :D i had been so happy with IEW, i just wonder if i should go back to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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