GeoKitty Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 How much time per day does this take? On average? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I'm interested, too. We are planning to use this next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistachio mom Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 This course takes about 30 - 45 minutes per lesson. We are doing it as a 1/2 credit as much as we have time to get through. The rest will wait until another year. The lessons are written to the student. I assign my daughter pages to read. (I read them ahead of time too :) I check with her twice a week to make sure she is understanding and getting it done. Sometimes, we read it together. After reading through a chapter, we then spend a few days writing a paper that relates to the chapter. This book is well laid out. I wish I had learned to write like this, Sharon Watson's website has the first few chapters available as a PDF download. This helped me to see if it was a good fit. The teacher edition is very useful as it gives rubrics and summaries of the chapters - as well as additional writing ideas. I love this resource! I feel like my daughter is getting a fantastic writing course that makes all those pieces she learned in the earlier years come together in a way that makes sense to her. This is much more doable than an online course for us. The lessons are adaptable to a variety of content areas. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoKitty Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Thank you Pistachio mom! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillStanding Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I wanted this program to be a good fit, but is hasn't been. I liked the sample online and I really wanted it to work. My dd is a reluctant writer and English is not my native tongue so we have tried several programs over the years. Dd had done IEW B and B continuation, IEW The Elegant Essay, and EIW 9 so we were ready for something less formulaic. After Christmas we switched to The Lively Art of Writing with the workbook posted here in this forum http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/471529-lively-art-of-writing-formatted-workbook-and-key-x-post/?hl=%2Bthe+%2Blively+%2Bart+%2Bwriting&do=findComment&comment=6716472 so far so good. Good luck. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoKitty Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Still Standing, what was it about Lively Art of Writing that worked better? How much time per day per lesson? My son knows how to write an essay. He needs practice writing various types of essays. He also needs practice in developing his essay quickly.... he can write a beautiful polished essay when given a week. But when he writes his quickly, he has trouble with organization. So I want him to practice that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) ...He also needs practice in developing his essay quickly.... he can write a beautiful polished essay when given a week. But when he writes his quickly, he has trouble with organization. So I want him to practice that as well. What helped us with that specific aspect of essay writing was a weekly practice of both DSs and myself writing a timed essay from a past SAT prompt, and then commenting on each other's essays. No proof-editing, and no grading, as the point was to "free write" and practice quickly building an argument and organizing it. We did that all through high school, and it really helped having to come up with points to support your argument, organize them, and then get flesh out your thoughts in a short period of time. Joining a Speech & Debate group would be another very helpful way to hone these skills. Edited January 20, 2017 by Lori D. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I wanted this program to be a good fit, but is hasn't been. I liked the sample online and I really wanted it to work. Curious too, as to why it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoKitty Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Lori D. Do you remember where you got the list of past SAT prompts to use? Did you time it for 50 minutes? I am feeling inspired that this could be the right thing to do for him! Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillStanding Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Still Standing, what was it about Lively Art of Writing that worked better? How much time per day per lesson? My son knows how to write an essay. He needs practice writing various types of essays. He also needs practice in developing his essay quickly.... he can write a beautiful polished essay when given a week. But when he writes his quickly, he has trouble with organization. So I want him to practice that as well. Hello Geokitty, This is a long post. First of all my background is in Science and Math. English is not my native tongue and I need a lot of hand-holding when it comes to teaching writing. I learned IEW methodology with my oldest child who took IEW classes in a co-op setting. I edited her papers for structure (her father did the spelling and grammar) and she is doing great in college. IEW worked great for her. My second child cried every time she had to go to an IEW class and while she was writing her assignments. When writing for other subjects she was not able to implement what she had learned in IEW class. We did EIW 9 last year and it went a lot better (no crying). We may go back to EIW with this child if I can’t make something less formulaic work for her. My comments are in blue: My son knows how to write an essay. He needs practice writing various types of essays. I picked The Power in Your Hands because I wanted my Dd to review different kinds of writing as well. We covered them in EIW 9 last year but I wanted to use a less formulaic approach this time. My Dd has the structure of the paragraphs and of an Essay down. She needs more practice with making strong thesis statements, and I also wanted her to work on persuasive essays this year. He also needs practice in developing his essay quickly.... he can write a beautiful polished essay when given a week. The Power in Your Hands does not help a student to write quicker. It doesn’t have any kind of timed essays. I think the author provides prompts for timed essays if you subscribe to her blog (??); I think I read it somewhere (I hope someone chimes in on this). My oldest used IEW High School Essay Intensive (in a co-op class) to learn about timed essays. She scored well on the written part of the ACT. But when he writes his quickly, he has trouble with organization. So I want him to practice that as well. Although The Power in Your Hands does teach the different kinds of structures that a person can use to write an Essay, it all feels very “theoretical.†There is a lot of terminology in this book so you learn all about the different structures that essays can take (inverted triangle, psychological order, climatic order… ) and when to use one or another. There is a lot of “Do this†or “Don’t do this†but not much on “This is how you do it.†We didn’t dislike everything about The Power in Your Hands. There are samples of what good writing should look like. Some of the exercises required to recognize in others’ writing what they were doing wrong (or right). There were lots of terms and then “Now you do it.†There are people who do well with this type of instruction; my child is not one of them. She can recognize what people are doing in their writing but can’t translate that knowledge into her own writing. My child is going into science. This year I just want her to be able to write good persuasive essays. I want my child to be able to defend her position by quoting from sources (learning different ways to do this). The book does not really teach you how to organize your essays. If your son needs practice on writing good paragraphs (topic sentence, examples/statements with supporting evidence, clincher sentence), transitions, and how to write good introductions and conclusions you may need a different program. The programs I mentioned before, being more formulaic, do help you learn the structure of a good paragraph and the structure of a good Essay. Still Standing, what was it about Lively Art of Writing that worked better? How much time per day per lesson? We have just started The Lively Art of Writing. Each chapter has many questions and activities to help you practice what you have just read about (all these questions at the end of the chapter have been put together in the Notebook I linked you to). This book doesn’t address all kinds of writing. So far, it has been great to help my child learn how to write good “Thesis Statements.†Something she had a hard time doing. The book addresses the passive voice which my Dd needs help with (provably because I speak English using it --passive is very common in my native tongue) with clear instruction on how to recognize it and practice to change it to active voice. Will review for her the structure of a good paragraph and a good essay and will end going over the Research Paper. Instead of “make sure you do this or that—after the terminology has been explained to you†I like that The Lively Art of Writing shows you “this is how you do it.†I really hope it works for her. I would say that right now she is spending an average of 30-40 minutes each day on writing. Once she starts writing Essays it probably will take longer. As I said before, The Power in Your Hands was not a good fit for my child. You may like it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistachio mom Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Lori D, Thank you for sharing what worked for your son. That sounds like a very good way to work on the timed essay. In lots of areas, your posts help me in my own home-school structuring. You have a valuable perspective. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Lori D. Do you remember where you got the list of past SAT prompts to use? Our DSs graduated in 2011 and 2012, so we only used the "old" SAT prompts from 2006 through 2011. If you eventually want to practice essay writing specifically for the SAT/ACT tests, then I've also linked some practice prompts for that. OLD (pre-2016) SAT essay prompts Scroll down a bit on this page, and there are links to the separate tests, from March 2005 to November 2015. There are usually 3-4 prompts to choose from in each test date. I copy-pasted all the prompts for an entire year into a single document and printed it off, and did that for each year of tests, so we had a physical "booklet" of prompts to choose from. I would open up to a page with the 3-4 prompts from one test, and made us all choose one from that same test date, so as to also practice sometimes having to write about something that you weren't that interested in, because when you take the test, that might be the way the question topics fall. ACT essay prompts: - ACT Essay Practice Prompts - 10 New ACT Essay Question Prompt Questions NEW (post-spring 2016) SAT essay prompts: - Official College Board SAT practice essay #1; essay #2; essay #3; essay #4 - 8 sample student essays with scores (student essays based on essay prompt #4) - Official College Board SAT example 1 of 2; example 2 of 2 Note: the new SAT essay prompts require reading an article and responding in-depth to the prompt question. The old SAT essay prompts are MUCH easier to use as practice prompts for speeding up writing because the prompts are just 1 paragraph long -- a quotation, and then a question: "Should people do X like the quote suggests? Or should people do something else? Plan and write an essay in which you develop your point of view on this issue. Support your position with reasoning and examples taken from your reading, studies, experience, or observations." ...Did you time it for 50 minutes? I am feeling inspired that this could be the right thing to do for him! Thx! No, we started off with 10 minutes, focusing on just ONE aspect of the essay and practicing it until comfortable, and then moving on to another aspect, or slowly increasing the time. Over the course of 2 years, we slowly increased from 10 minutes to 25-30 minutes. I honestly don't think you get THAT much more benefit from writing for the full 50 minutes (except to help as part of your real-time practice in the weeks just prior to taking the SAT). If the goal is to increase speed of thinking of what to write, organizing the writing, and the actual act of writing, I personally think you will get better results with more frequent shorter bursts of practice. So, weekly, for 25-30 minutes. JMO. :) That is just enough time to have focused practice time, AND then 10-15 minutes or so to critique essays together, and then be done, without it feeling like a burdensome, overly long time that chews up half of your morning or afternoon. Below are the "levels" or stages of what our expectations were and how we slowly ramped up the expectations. I marked in red what was the new thing or change in expectation. I would probably have slightly different requirements if doing this now, as I have been teaching Lit. & Comp. co-op classes for the past 4 years and have a much stronger idea of what needs to go into any essay. So also below I'm including the essay structure that I've developed over the past 4 years -- the parts that need to go into creating a supported argument (your essay). Hope something here helps! Best of luck! Warmly, Lori D. ________________________ Essay Structure Introductory paragraph - optional: hook - topic sentence/sentence of introduction - optional, if needed: "define your terms" or explain the unusual/unknown (brief sentence(s) of explanation of idea/term/movement/philosophy that is key to the overall essay that may be unusual or unfamiliar to the reader) - thesis statement, all 3 parts: 1. topic 2. claim (your position or "take" on the topic -- example: for/against the topic, or ) 3. direction (major points of the body, which build your argument about your claim) Body paragraphs (1 paragraph per point, or major aspect of a point, if going into depth on each point) - transition (often combined with the topic sentence) - topic sentence (state what major point is covered in this paragraph) - support for this point -- examples, facts, details, etc. - commentary -- explains or connects the support(s) to the point ("This shows that..." "Because of this...") - commentary -- explains/shows how the major point supports your thesis claim Concluding paragraph - transition - brief, very general overview or restatement of what was covered in the essay - "clincher" -- based on the argument developed about the topic, a final thought, conclusion, call to action, etc. ________________________ Build-up of timed essays from a prompt: Level A - 10 minutes of time - 1 paragraph at least 5 sentences long - with an introductory sentence which introduces the topic (this is the topic sentence) - at least 3 "body" sentences that are specific details, facts, examples quotations, etc., and support the topic sentence/contention - and a solid concluding 1-2 sentences (restatement of the topic sentence, very brief/general summary of main supporting points) Level B - 15 minutes of time - 1 longer overall paragraph, at least 6-8 sentences long, or 2 paragraphs - add a "hook" in the introduction, which will now be 2-3 sentences (the hook grabs the reader's attention -- fascinating fact, quotation, a very brief anecdote, a question, bold/shocking statement, an analogy or definition…) - a topic sentence/contention (can be in the same sentence with the "hook") - the body sentences all support the topic sentence (specific details, facts, examples, quotations, etc.) - and a solid concluding 1-2 sentences Level C - 20 minutes of time - 3 paragraphs - 1.) intro paragraph -- can be short (2-3 sentences); still must have a hook and topic sentence/contention - 2.) body paragraph sentences must all support the topic sentence/contention, and must have specific supports (details, facts, examples, quotations, etc.), all supporting the topic sentence/contention - add a sentence in the introduction that summaries the 2-4 major details that will be fleshed out in the body that support the topic sentence - the body sentences all support the topic sentence (specific details, facts, examples, quotations, etc.) - add transitions between paragraphs -- usually the first sentence of the new paragraph -- to smooth the writing and add style and continuity or contrast - 3.) concluding paragraph: 2-3 sentences (restatement of the topic sentence, very brief/general summary of main supporting points) Level D Same as C above, but now must add a "clincher" sentence, an additional "extra", to the concluding paragraph -- not just a restatement of the opening sentences and a summary of main supporting points -- add a thought, "reason why", "what this leads to" -- this is something out of the student's own thoughts and reasoning. The "clincher" answers the question asked in the hook or completes the anecdote, description, or definition started in the hook; ends with a warning or call for action; asks a final rhetorical question; suggests results or consequences; a notable quotation; universalizes (compares to other situations)... Level E - 25 minutes of time - strive for 5 paragraphs - 1.) intro paragraph: hook, topic sentence/contention, sentence summarizing the 2-4 major details of support - 2.) 3.) 4.) body paragraphs each is a complete paragraph of 1 of 3 specific areas of support; all details support the topic sentence/contention (this is where different students can accomplish different goals -- slow/struggling writers, maybe 1 solid body paragraphs with 3 supports, with one sentence of explanation) - add a sentence of commentary or explanation for each supporting detail, which explains WHY or HOW the supporting fact, detail, example, or quotation proves or supports the topic sentence/contention - use transition sentences -- usually the first sentence of the new paragraph, but can also be the last sentence of the previous paragraph - 5.) concluding paragraph which sums up the essay, plus adds a little "extra" from the students own thoughts Level F Like E above, but must also finish 2-4 minutes before the time is up for quick proofing of the essay for typos, capitalization, punctuation, run-on sentences, forgotten word, etc. NOTE: Be sure to make any corrections by just crossing out and writing above -- erasing and rewriting turns it into a black smudge, as the essay readers are given a copy, not the original, and erasures turn out black on the copies. Edited January 20, 2017 by Lori D. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoKitty Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Oh my goodness, you are amazing! Thank you so much! I will read through all the responses thoroughly tonight! And print this out! Thank you! 😀😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoKitty Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Wow Still Standing and Lori D ---- Thank you. So. Much. I truly appreciate your advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 This is a long post. ... The Power in Your Hands does not help a student to write quicker. It doesn’t have any kind of timed essays. I think the author provides prompts for timed essays if you subscribe to her blog (??); I think I read it somewhere (I hope someone chimes in on this) .... Although The Power in Your Hands does teach the different kinds of structures that a person can use to write an Essay, it all feels very “theoretical.†There is a lot of terminology in this book so you learn all about the different structures that essays can take (inverted triangle, psychological order, climatic order… ) and when to use one or another. There is a lot of “Do this†or “Don’t do this†but not much on “This is how you do it.†We didn’t dislike everything about The Power in Your Hands. There are samples of what good writing should look like. Some of the exercises required to recognize in others’ writing what they were doing wrong (or right). There were lots of terms and then “Now you do it.†There are people who do well with this type of instruction; my child is not one of them. She can recognize what people are doing in their writing but can’t translate that knowledge into her own writing. ... The book does not really teach you how to organize your essays. If your son needs practice on writing good paragraphs (topic sentence, examples/statements with supporting evidence, clincher sentence), transitions, and how to write good introductions and conclusions you may need a different program. ... Instead of “make sure you do this or that—after the terminology has been explained to you†I like that The Lively Art of Writing shows you “this is how you do it.†... As I said before, The Power in Your Hands was not a good fit for my child. You may like it. Thank you. This was helpful to me, too. GeoKitty, I have read The Lively Art of Writing and it is great for learning how to arrive at a strong thesis, and write good introductions, paragraphs, and conclusions. There is another "formulaic" book that teaches good transitions between paragraphs, and between sentences in the same paragraph. It is called Writing To The Point by Bill Kerrigan and Allan Metcalf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 And, completely off-topic nansk, but every time I see your crazy lady "buy ALL the books!" avatar, I bust out laughing. Thanks for that! :laugh: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 And, completely off-topic nansk, but every time I see your crazy lady "buy ALL the books!" avatar, I bust out laughing. Thanks for that! :laugh: It was a reminder to myself of what I was turning into. I have more books on Maths and writing than my only child can ever get through. :tongue_smilie: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistachio mom Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The Power in Your Hands does give lots of writing prompts in the teacher edition. The author recommends taking time off from the book to work on writing using the prompts. I do subscribe to her newsletter so I get the links to the prompts. Sometimes, she has very good sales and even free giveaways for the ebooks of prompts too. For me, they are helpful. I plan on using SAT prompts too. The same author also has lots of writing prompts her earlier book Jump In. Jump In is more of a middle school level introduction to the same concepts that are taught in Power of Your Hands. I want to take a look at the Lively Writing or similarly worded title. My student has trouble just brainstorming and organization. She hates to put anything on paper. If I allowed it, she would do nothing on paper to prepare for writing and just spend lots of time writing the finished draft in one sitting. Power in Your Hands is helping her to learn about organization from someone who is not "her mother." She is finally "getting it" with writing beautiful essays - independently! We are working on learning structure before speed. I have also benefited from the Right Brain Writing approach on Dianne Craft's website. It is a spacial way to organize the ideas. Since I am an artist, this makes sense to me. My daughter did not see anything enlightening about this. But this may be helpful in aiding a visual learner to apply the organization concepts of writing. Dianne's Brain Training exercises helped this same student greatly improve some dysgraphia issues. http://www.diannecraft.org/language-arts-writing-program/ - scroll down to the paragraph writing section I do really appreciate all the carefully thought out responses above. It has been a help to me - and this is not even my post.... Thanks everyone! And Nansk, you are not the only book collector here. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoKitty Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Thank you Pistachio Mom! I think I am going to try to implement what Lori D suggested..... now, while he is still in 8th grade...... as a starting point. But I will look into Lively Art of Writing and Power in your hands , and everything else mentioned. So I can figure out where he needs to be for next year ! Thank you so much everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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