Forester's Drop-out

[Dassah]

My dd is a 9th grader and has been a math struggler for years. I've worked diligently with her through Singapore 1-7a and then on to Foersters. I'm calling it quits. She's in Chapter 7 and completely lost. Where do I go with a child who needs to have Algebra, seems to understand difficult word problems, but is lost or flighty when it comes to memory and basic or previously learned algebra and sometimes even arithmetic. I just don't think Foerster is right but I still want her to have a decent enough foundation as she is definitely college bound in the arts. 

[LisaKinVA]

I would suggest Chalkdust.  Maybe Jacobs or Lial's.

 

 

[EKS]

Jacobs is fabulous.  Lial is good for procedures but not for concepts and word problems.  Derek Owens is good, if you want to go the online route.

[Dassah]

Do you suggest we jump over to Jacobs for Algebra or Geometry? Is Jacob's THAT much easier than Foersters? I'm definitely thinking Chalkdust for Alg 2 (just not sure what to do to finish out this year and then what to do for Geometry). 

[LisaKinVA]

I wouldn't say easier, mainly different presentation.

 

My oldest could easily switch between Foerster, Jacobs, and Chalkdust text-wise. I mainly use chalkdust for the video lessons, because he just explains so well. DS and DD didn't use the math without Borders DVDs, even though we had them. Maybe check out the cool math guy videos on the Foerster section she's stuck on, and see if it clicks? I know math without Borders is also now explaining the solutions to problems, which could also help.

[VANURSEPRAC]

I wouldn't say easier, mainly different presentation.

 

My oldest could easily switch between Foerster, Jacobs, and Chalkdust text-wise. I mainly use chalkdust for the video lessons, because he just explains so well. DS and DD didn't use the math without Borders DVDs, even though we had them. Maybe check out the cool math guy videos on the Foerster section she's stuck on, and see if it clicks? I know math without Borders is also now explaining the solutions to problems, which could also help.

 

 

I am very  sorry for high jacking. But @LisaK in VA, can you please tell me what your DS and DD did not like about MWB videos?

 

 

Thank you very much!

[...................]

I disagree about Jacob's being goof for a struggling student.  The explanations are interesting but there just aren't **ENOUGH** explanation, or examples, at all. A whole section may only have two examples, for instance.  My son is doing fine and is not a struggling math student, but we still have gotten stuck numerous times and had to look up the concept on Khan Academy, wait for the tutor to explain, or even text my 12th grade nephew.  

 

My suggestions would be Saxon (very algorithmic and long and tedious but it builds very slowly) or Derek Owens (which has hundreds of videos)

 

Also, Foerster's is advanced in its scope and sequence.  Depending where you are in the book, she may not even need to finish all of it.  I would compare the Scope and Sequence to other Algebra books.

[...................]

For Geometry, we are going to use Jacob's with Derek Owens.  Toegther, it's a complete program with teaching AND it uses the actual textbook (unlike many other Derek Owens courses the Geometry uses the texta nd refers to it every day.)

[Janeway]

I really like Jacobs so much better than Foresters. You could try that and see if you like it.

[Janeway]

Jacobs is very thorough. I picked Foresters over Jacobs due to things people said here. But we got half way through Foresters and I wanted to use Jacobs instead. The topics were pretty much the same, just different order. They were better explained in Jacobs. I still own the Jacobs book and will be using that one next time. I wanted to switch midstream with my older one but he didn't want to. He said he did not like Foresters after all, but did not want to change.

[Brad S]

My dd is a 9th grader and has been a math struggler for years. I've worked diligently with her through Singapore 1-7a and then on to Foersters. I'm calling it quits. She's in Chapter 7 and completely lost. Where do I go with a child who needs to have Algebra, seems to understand difficult word problems, but is lost or flighty when it comes to memory and basic or previously learned algebra and sometimes even arithmetic. I just don't think Foerster is right but I still want her to have a decent enough foundation as she is definitely college bound in the arts. 

 

 

...  Lial is good for procedures but not for concepts and word problems.  ...

Agree.

 

Dassah: Since your daughter had Singapore 1-7a, some of Foerster's Algebra, and seems to understand pretty complicated word problems, you might be a long way toward a very successful algebra 1 outcome.  It may be that some periodic review is all that's needed, along with backing up a bit to where the material is understood.  I think KhanAcademy.org does a great job with efficiently reviewing (and refreshing) older concepts and that might be just what you need.  Since math is so cumulative, any missed or forgotten piece along the way can cause problems.  After spending a few days with KhanAcademy, you could try the current Foerster chapter or an earlier chapter where trouble started, and see if it's now clearer.

[LisaKinVA]

I am very  sorry for high jacking. But @LisaK in VA, can you please tell me what your DS and DD did not like about MWB videos?

 

 

Thank you very much!

 

They just preferred reading the text.  Nothing wrong with the videos, per se.  Same older son really likes the Mosely ones, though.

[Dassah]

Thank you all for the help! Yes, I think she just can't see the big-picture with Foerster at this point. We are midway through, well into Ch 7, where application begins. Now that there is a certain equation given -- the student is asked to solve for x or y (using the quadratic equation or the y-slope-intercept formula or by simply looking at the equation to see if it can be easily solved by isolating the x or y). She just stares blankly at me like "what for/why?" and "how?". You know, I think that Foerster's actually lacks in this department when it comes to 'why am I doing this?'... maybe that's where Jacob's does a better job. I'm looking over the Jacob's Alg book (yes, I do have it!) and though it doesn't explain the lessons as well (in my opinion), it does explain WHY and WHERE you would use these a bit better. I can see how one compliments the other quite well. BUT, I admit that Foerster Lessons are very well explained!!

 

In terms of MWB: I have MWB teaching thumb drive videos and hmmm... He teaches the lesson and then ups the ante. The graphing ones really had my dd confused. We only used his videos recently when we seemed to hit a brick wall and she begged for me to just find a tutor. Fortunately, dh came home, spent a few minutes with her and was able to explain the particular lesson easily by reading through the Foerster explanation. DD and I were just in a tail spin and neither of us were understanding...in hindsight, I think the y-slope-intercept formula could have been back-filled a little with better precursory explanations but that's another story. ;)

 

Saxon: well, we used CLE 7 math after Singapore for a very brief time. She was so frustrated by the spiral method. I'm fairly certain that won't work, but I do think she needs brush-up and Saxon could easily provide that. 

 

Jacobs: As I look over the text, I know that she would actually have some fun with it. I'm noticing, though, that Ch 2 of Jacob's hasn't been covered (or just a little) in Foresters at this point. I'd love to switch things up and let her enjoy that text for a change but I'm afraid I might be in for a scheduling nightmare. 

 

Since I'm thinking ahead to Geometry: can you tell me if the Jacob's Callahan Dvd's are any better than the Algebra ones (I don't find the Alg ones particularly helpful -- I borrowed them from a friend and they didn't seem very thorough or well made).

 

Derek Owens: She used his Physical Science and really loved his lectures. I will consider this for Jacob's Algebra since I'm underwhelmed with Callahan vids.

 

Chalkdust: The sheer time commitment of each of Mosely's videos is single-handedly keeping me from looking (well, that and the college text that overwhelms my eyes!). :-) Mosely could be the best teacher in the universe but OH those textbooks! ;-)

 

Again, thank you so much for helping me!

[...................]

you said "Derek Owens: She used his Physical Science and really loved his lectures. I will consider this for Jacob's Algebra since I'm underwhelmed with Callahan vids.

 

 

Derek Owens ALgebra does not use Jacobs, it uses Dolciani, and the lessonsa re not closely tied to the book.

 

ONLY Geometry uses Jacobs and is closely tied to and uses the book every day

[Brad S]

Since I'm thinking ahead to Geometry: can you tell me if the Jacob's Callahan Dvd's are any better than the Algebra ones (I don't find the Alg ones particularly helpful -- I borrowed them from a friend and they didn't seem very thorough or well made).

We used Jacobs for Algebra 1 and Jacobs for Geometry (3rd ed), and had the videos for both.  Dale Callahan does the videos for geometry, whereas someone else does for algebra.  My son struggled at times with the algebra but geometry was a breeze; he hardly ever watched the videos for videos and hardly asked a question and did very well with Jacobs geometry; we really liked the Jacobs Geometry text and found it very clear.  We used the syllabus of AskDrCallahan, including problem set, and supplemented with a few extra proofs and did the non-Euclidean geometry chapter in detail, but it would be fine to use the syllabus exactly -- except to skip the algebra review and use an algebra book for algebra review or just finish algebra 1 and/or start algebra 2 simultaneously.  If I were to do it over, I think I'd use Foerster's algebra 1 and use Jacobs algebra for explanation where needed and use Khan Academy for regular review of problem sets (and the videos where needed for clarification). YMMV.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Brad S

[ondreeuh]

Have you looked at supplementing with videos at Brightstorm.com? A year's subscription is $80 (or was when I paid last month) and you can pretty easily find videos for each topic. It's a video of a real person working on a whiteboard, and the teachers are very encouraging and supportive.

 

We are using Prentice Hall Algebra (2011) and I like it very much. I found a copy of Foerster's algebra for a dime and snatched it up, but I don't even like to look at it. I much prefer the presentation in PH. We're into chapter 3, and I have no complaints about how things are explained - it's very thorough so far.