Outlining and CAP Writing & Rhetoric

[Katydid]

I am currently using W&R Narrative II level with my 6th grader (along with R&S 6th grade English). I realize that Narrative II is designed for slightly below 6th grade level, but my ds is a reluctant (yet capable) writer, so it's been a good fit. Except for the outlining. In both CAP and R&S, they are expecting 2 and 3 level outlines right off the bat and I noticed that SWB's WWS starts out practicing level one outlines for a while before moving on. And yet the content of WWS seems to be more advanced as far as reading level and the amount they are expected to write each lesson goes. Or am I underestimating my 6th grader? 

 

I'm just thinking that he may need more work on outlining, but he likes everything else about CAP so I am hesitant to switch completely to WWS, which may be overkill for him. Is there a resource that just covers outlining separately that we can supplement with? How important is outlining, anyway? I don't recall learning it very extensively. Are there other good tools that would teach the organizational structure of writing that we should try instead?

[Heathermomster]

I taught my son full sentence and topic outlining using something like the Purdue Owl website.  We did this four years ago, so I don't recall the precise website.  We then discovered mindmapping and Inspiration sw for the iPad and the PC.  Inspiration will convert the mindmap into an outline format.  DS prefers the Inspiration app for the iPad, and the cost is about $10.  He emails himself the outline and cleans it up on the computer.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Heathermomster

[SeaConquest]

Treasured Conversations would be my suggestion.

[Targhee]

We use CAP's W&R for DS 10, and WWS 1/2 for DD 13.

 

The incremental steps for outlining in WWS are somewhat frustrating. I would prefer a much more accelerated pace (and we are already doing both books 1 and 2 in the same year). Some people do better with learning in that highly drawn-out way. And some people do better with starting with a bigger piece of (or the whole) picture. That's one reason that WWE was such a bad fit for us - my kids are more global and need the big picture concept before practicing the components.

 

W&R has been a better match for us because of the variety of skills practiced each lesson, the discussion that ensues around the narratives, and the general scope and sequence of the program. If your son is doing ok with the W&R outlining instruction then I would not worry about adding in WWS.

[Katydid]

No, he's not doing well with W&R's (lack of) outlining instruction. The last lesson we did had him doing a 3 level outline on a short story (The Brahmin, the Tiger, and the Jackal) and he really struggled with coming up with the outline points. Partly because he hates putting pencil to paper to begin with, and partly because there was no explicit instruction or enough shorter outline requirements leading up to this assignment. 

 

I am actually doing Treasured Conversations with my 4th grader, but we are still in the first (grammar) section and haven't gotten to outlining yet. I think my DS would balk if I put him in the same program as his younger sister, even if it is at a different point in the program. I'm thinking that WWS might actually be a good fit for him. He really likes things that are laid out very straightforwardly. It would be a challenge, I think, but in a good way.

[PineFarmMom]

We use W&R and outline on the board. I use it with my 6th and 4th grade boys. We are only on lesson 5, and at this point we are doing our main points, I, II, III, IV, etc. on the board then leave space for the second level below it and let them help me fill it in orally. That is working well for now. My 6th grader knows how to outline already so that helps. My plan is to just kind of breeze through the W&R outlines together with me doing less and less and them filling out more as we go, then outlining out of our history and science sources to get a better grasp of it.

 

Adding to say that I just utilize the examples in the teachers manual as our starting point. I have decided to just not a tress too much about this aspect of W&R. I like the curriculum as a whole, and I can take care of that aspect of writing using other sources.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Texas T

[sbgrace]

The outlining instruction in Writing and Rhetoric is woeful, absent, terrible..pick your adjective.

Then you're outlining narratives on top of that.

 

Outlining might be worth learning, but you don't need to worry about it in Writing and Rhetoric. It won't matter if you skip it.

 

I used Remedia publications outlining books. It's incremental, but not nearly as incremental as WWS (too slow imo). We outline magazine articles for practice. This is a good use, because they are getting a feel for how professional writers organize material.

 

If you want to take a look at them, I'm adding Christianbook.com links to the Remedia books, but you can purchase them from other sources or as downloads if you decide to go this route:  http://www.christianbook.com/beginning-outlining-grades-3-4/1561752932/pd/7361134?event=ESRCN and http://www.christianbook.com/outlining-grades-5-8/1561750565/pd/736134?event=ESRCN

I imagine you could do with just the 2nd book, especially given his age.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by sbgrace