LLFLOR or WttW?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I have read good reviews for both. I would like to use one of the two for lit analysis for my boys. One concern with LLfLOR is that they may get bored doing the same book series for a whole year, even half a year. I do like the sample I saw, though.

WttW seems more varied and shorter.

I mainly want this to be lit analysis without too much writing. They each have their writing classes already.

So please help me choose and share your experience.thanks!

[Momto6inIN]

I don't really have an answer for you, just putting in my $.02 so I can see what responses you get. :)

 

I used WttW with my older DS when he was in 9th grade and it was just simply a great curriculum! He really learned how to write a literary analysis essay well with it and I couldn't have been more pleased. I liked that it used short stories so he didn't get bored yet they really explored the literary terms and concepts well.

 

I was hoping to use it for my next DS with it next year when he's in 9th grade ... but his academic writing skills just aren't ready for it yet. He's very good at creative writing, but needs some time to mature and work on his academic writing skills. He also happens to be obsessed with LOTR and The Hobbit, so we're planning on using LLFLOR as an in-between lit curriculum while we work on getting his writing skills ready for literary analysis and WttW.

 

So I'll be interested to see what others have to say!

[Sunshine State Sue]

We used LLfLOTR in 9th grade.  Here is my review:

 

Amelia Harper has enthusiastically designed Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings for students in grades 7-12.  Their website is http://www.homescholar.org/LOTR%20Curr.htm.  We used LLfLOTR for 9^th grade English.

 

For each chapter in the LOTR, the curriculum provides:

• Study guide (fill in the blank summary of the chapter)
• Vocabulary exercises
• Additional notes (discussing literary devices, LOTR background information, Tolkein background information, probably more)
• Comprehension questions (short answer)

 

There are 13 unit studies:

• Exploring the Author
• Exploring Linguistics
• Exploring Setting
• Map Study
• Exploring Epics (Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid)
• Beowulf Parts 1 & 2
• Exploring Genre
• Exploring Poetry
• Exploring Arthurian Romances Parts 1 & 2
• Research Project
• Exploring Unifying Elements
• Optional Movies and the Classics
• Optional Religious Elements

 

Finally, the curriculum provides:

• 6 tests
• 18 vocabulary quizzes
• Enough suggested writing assignments to have several to choose from on a weekly basis

 

Pros:

• Pick up and go (minimal teacher preparation)
• Well organized (lesson plans available at the website)
• Quizzes, tests, papers provide objective material for grade
• Secular (with one optional Religious Unit Study)

 

Cons:

• None for me.
• Some people complain about the fill-in-the blank activities.  We used everything as is.

 

Let me start out by stating that the LOTR is my favorite book of all time.  I loved this curriculum.  Ds was less enamored, but tolerated it well.  I also have a degree in math, so I loved how EASY it was for me to implement.  I wish Amelia Harper would write more.

 

A supplement I enjoyed was The Atlas of Middle-Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad

ISBN 0-618-1258805

[Lori D.]

LLftLotR is a gentle intro to beginning discussion/literary analysis program; it is rated for grades 7-12, but IMO it's best for grades 7-9. The reading aspect of it takes about 1-2 hours/week.

 

Since your DC will already have a writing class, you could skip the writing and the fill-in-the-blank comprehension questions and vocabulary sheets, and then all together read the end of chapter notes and do the discussion questions together, and do the additional units of material together (one unit every 3 weeks) -- I'd estimate another 1-2 hours/week, depending on how much time you want to put into it. So, with the reading, 2.5 to 3 hours of time total per week (when dropping the writing)

 

As far as getting bored by doing the trilogy over one year -- JMO, but I think it would be fairly easy to have other books going at the same time, and just do lighter or heavier discussion as desired; You could use individual lit. guides for guidance in discussion and literary analysis, plus spend 10-15 minutes 1-2x/week going through Figuratively Speaking for familiarity with literary elements.

 

You could do 1 other book every 6 weeks, for a total of 6 other books for the year, or, if you are faster readers/discussers, go for 4 books in each semester, for a total of 8 other books for the year. From your signature, it looks like you have middle school ages (10yo and 12yo), so you could cover some classic young adult books that are super for discussing with middle schoolers. (Ideas: Tuck Everlasting, A Wrinkle in Time, The Bronze Bow, Sounder, Number the Stars, Maniac Magee, Island of the Blue Dolphins, Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry, The Pushcart War, The Wednesday Wars, My Side of the Mountain, Below the Root, Enchantress from the Stars, The Master Puppeteer, Where the Red Fern Grows, Summer of the Monkeys…)

 

 

WttW is definitely a step up in difficulty from LLftLotR, as it focuses on annotation, writing a literary analysis essay, and then focus on about 8-10 of the most common literary elements and how they are used in Literature. The program focuses on 6 short stories; JMO, but at least 3 of these stories are subtle and advanced and best suited for high school when the student has matured in thinking, analyzing, and discussion skills, while 2 of the stories would be fine for middle school ages.

 

WttW is rated for grades 9-12, with 8th a possibility for a strong reader and writer. IMO the "sweet spot" for WttW is probably about grade 9-10 -- when the student is a strong reader, no longer struggles with basic writing, and has been doing some discussion of Literature already. if you have young students/middle school ages and have done only a little formal Literature before, I'd definitely wait until into high school for this one.

 

Since there is a good amount of writing embedded in WttW and you already have that covered through a class, and because your DC are young, I would not recommend this program as your Literature program this year.

 

You might also look at other Literature programs, and just drop out any Writing component:

 

Memoria Press:

grade 6 (Adam of the Road, Robin Hood, Door in the Wall, King Arthur)

grade 7 (Anne of Green Gables, The Hobbit, The Trojan War, The Bronze Bow)

grade 8 (Wind in the Willows, Tom Sawyer, Treasure Island, As You Like It)

 

Lightning Literature:

grade 7 (2 poetry units; 2 short stories: Rikki Tikki Tavi, Bride Comes to Yellow Sky; plus: Story of My Life by Helen Keller, Alice in Wonderland, Tom Sawyer, All Creatures Great and Small)

grade 8 (3 poetry units; 3 short stories: A Crazy Tale, Wakefield, Reflections; 6 novels: Treasure Island, The Hobbit, Christmas Carol, To Kill a Mockingbird, A Day of Pleasure, My Family and Other Animals)

 

Moving Beyond the Page Language Arts program:

ages 10-12 (The Wanderer, People of Sparks, Tuck Everlasting, Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry, The Giver, Bull Run, Number the Stars, Esperanza Rising, Secret of the Andes, Tree That Time Built, Albert Einsteing, short stories)

ages 11-13 (The Pearl, Girl Names Disaster, The Hobbit, A Single Shard, Prince and the Bard, Newton at the Center, British Poetry, Tales from the Middle Ages)

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Lori D.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks a lot, Sue and Lori D.

I think LLfLOR or LL 8 will be appropriate for my ds13 and 11. Sorry I haven't changed my sig to reflect their age growth.

If I go with LOR, do I need to buy TM also? If they don't do the writing part, can they still do the tests? I will assign some of the writing . Do I need LL 8 TM?

I think we will do WttW after LOR or LL 8.

Ds13's writing class is not challenging enough, the teacher teaches with IEW mehods. By the end of this semester, they have been just writing individual paragraphs, one paragraph a week. There is Fix it grammar and Vocab study mixed in. But overall, I would say this class is a big step down from what he did in WWS 1 and half of WWS 2 he already completed a year ago. The second semester won't start until Jan. 18. :-( It will go on to some three paragraph writing with some timed essays in class.

He is officially 7th grader though he has been doing a grade ahead so far. I just would like to allow him more time to be a middle school student to mature. I am so glad we are not calling him 8th grader anymore.

Ds11 to be in a week is taking IEW Student writing intensive B and is doing very well. His class meets every other week. So having this literature course for him will be good, too.

Now I need to ask them if they want to do LLfLOR. I am very torn btw LOR and LL 8. Hope it is more obvious which they prefer. I guess for LL 8 I can be less involved and they just finish the assignment themselves? I will reduce the writing to a small amount of course. For LOR, I will plan to do oral discussion with them, which I prefer.

Thanks for the help!

Edited December 23, 2015 by JadeOrchidSong

[Sunshine State Sue]

We used LL7 and LL8.  Here is my review:

 

We used LL7 for 7^th grade and LL8 for 8^th grade.

 

Lightning Literature can be found here.  Samples can be found if you look around the website.

 

Pros:

• Gentle introduction to literature and literary analysis
• Pick up and go (minimal teacher preparation)
• Well organized (ie. they give you a reasonable weekly schedule to use)
• Written to the student so it can be done independently
• Nice variety of books and genres (biography, poetry, novel, short story, etc)
• Uses whole books readily available at the library
• Not too much work – we are able to use a separate grammar and writing program and read other literature without stress
• Secular

Cons:

• None

Note:  Figuratively Speaking is a nice supplement.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Sue in St Pete

[Momto6inIN]

LLftLotR is a gentle intro to beginning discussion/literary analysis program; it is rated for grades 7-12, but IMO it's best for grades 7-9. The reading aspect of it takes about 1-2 hours/week.

 

Since your DC will already have a writing class, you could skip the writing and the fill-in-the-blank comprehension questions and vocabulary sheets, and then all together read the end of chapter notes and do the discussion questions together, and do the additional units of material together (one unit every 3 weeks) -- I'd estimate another 1-2 hours/week, depending on how much time you want to put into it. So, with the reading, 2.5 to 3 hours of time total per week (when dropping the writing)

 

This is very helpful, thank you!

[JadeOrchidSong]

I suppose both student book and TM are needed for LotR. The set is very expensive. Where can I find the best price? It seems hard to find used ones.

[Lori D.]

I think LLfLOR or LL 8 will be appropriate for my ds13 and 11...

 

… For LOR, I will plan to do oral discussion with them, which I prefer....If I go with LOR, do I need to buy TM also? If they don't do the writing part, can they still do the tests? I will assign some of the writing ...

 

...Do I need LL 8 TM?

 

The newer edition, yes, you need both the student and teacher books, as they reorganized the material so that they are more intertwined. If you can find an original edition (2009? or earlier) of just the Teacher guide, you could go with that without the student book, as it is the complete student book with all the answers printed in it, plus the writing assignment suggestions and teacher resources.

 

The only "tests" in LLftLotR are the vocabulary quizzes, unless you count the fill-in-the-blank comprehension questions. We skipped both, as we were more interested in the chapter notes, discussion questions, and the 12 units of tangential material.

 

As for LL7 or LL8… well, I never used the TG, but then I rarely do use TGs… The LL TGs have a few discussion questions, a suggested schedule, and a few teacher resources, plus answers to the workpages in the student workbook portion of the student guide. I personally thought the answers were pretty self-evident, so I didn't need the guide, but you may find it faster for grading to use the answers in the TG. Totally your call. :)

 

For either LLftLotR or for LL7 or LL8, you might look for a used set to save a little money.

 

 

Now I need to ask them if they want to do LLfLOR. I am very torn btw LOR and LL 8. 

 

If your DC have NOT done any previous formal literature discussions, you may want to consider going with either LotR (if they are highly interested in that trilogy), OR, go with LL7, rather than LL8, as I think LL7 has a more interesting set of works for a student who has not previously done any formal literature -- the books in LL8 are great, but may not connect immediately the way most of the works in LL7 do. Another thought is to do BOTH LL7 and LL8 in one year, or in a year-and-a-half, by picking-and-choosing your way through the units in each.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Lori D.

How do I use the older edition TM if all the answers are printed in?

How did you use it? Did your dc not write things down? Did you only do oral discussion?

I just showed the boys the student sample pages and the LL 8 table of content. They'd rather do LOTR, which is Waht I am hoping for. :-)

I posted the question How do you use LotR 2nd edition as a new thread just now. I don't think I want to buy two student books because they are quite expensive.

Edited December 28, 2015 by JadeOrchidSong

[Sunshine State Sue]

The only "tests" in LLftLotR are the vocabulary quizzes, unless you count the fill-in-the-blank comprehension questions.

 

Lori probably never used the tests.  I used the tests as well as the comprehension questions and vocabulary quizzes.  From content information:

Six reproducible literature unit tests and answer keys (answer keys are not reproducible.)

 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Sue in St Pete

[Lori D.]

How do I use the older edition TM if all the answers are printed in?

How did you use it? Did your dc not write things down? Did you only do oral discussion?

 

Yes, orally only, no writing. We read aloud together, read the chapter notes aloud together, discussed  the questions together, and used the program as a springboard into our own questions, thoughts and discussion. I just taped blank paper over the discussion question answers so any one of us could read the questions. We skipped the vocab and comprehension questions.

 

We also really enjoyed doing the 12 units to dig into additional literature topics. There were a few questions at the end of some of the units, but I think I just read those out and we discussed aloud.

 

If you want some written output, how about having each DS pick one of the discussion questions (after the chapter notes) every so often and answer in a few sentences or a complete paragraph...

 

 

I posted the question How do you use LotR 2nd edition as a new thread just now. I don't think I want to buy two student books because they are quite expensive.

 

Could they just write their answers in separate notebooks?? Like using a math textbook that has no workbook… Then you just need one student book and one teacher book. And if they don't write in it, you can re-sell as a complete package at the end of your use for a reduced price… :)

[JadeOrchidSong]

Lori D.

Very helpful!!! That has been the way we do many of our study, such as Art of Argument, Fallacy Detective, and of course math.

I will post on the Classified forum to see if anyone has the set for sale before I buy new.